Why do (some) astrologers ask for the exact time of birth?

[Astro Teacher]

Ah. Well, because I'm always concerned that "silence=consent," I feel obliged to say that, based on the above text, we have some points of disagreement.

However, I doubt that debating them will benefit either of us, so I'll go back to lurking.

You may want to understand how I think in this matter. See the link below, as it will help you and others who are serious about learning about such matters.

See - http://www.tmgnow.com/repository/solar/percyseymour1.html

 

[Astro Teacher]

You don't seem to understand how this ' prove it ' thing works ....

I understand it much better than you think. However, in order for you to be able to debate, discuss, to ask, and to learn, critically thinking of course, then you will need to actually show that you have the capacity to do so - without resorting to such silly quips on this subject that goes only to debase something that reveals more about what you do not know rather than what you actually do know.

 

[six7s]

When you get real and dispense with the irritating rude comments perhaps then you will receive the appropriate attention you seek. You can be a skeptic and also show some class and courtesy. Try that.

Please, resist the tempatation to dodge my questions with patronising crap... I don't want/need "attention" from you, all I ask for is coherent, on-topic replies to genuine, simply phrased posts:

Please name ONE such field of science and explain how it was born from astrology

Please describe ONE benefit from a professional astrological application of magnetic resonance

If you can't/won't participate in a constructive discussion, please stop posting

 

[Skeptical Greg]

....without resorting to such silly quips on this subject that goes only to debase something that reveals more about what you do not know rather than what you actually do know.

You got that right ..

Are you sure you have stumbled into the right place ?
What did you Google, that brought you here ?

It's Sunday and kind of quiet tonight ..

You are really going to have fun tomorrow ...

 

[Nonpareil]

I understand it much better than you think.

No, you don't.

 

[Astro Teacher]

Please, resist the tempatation to dodge my questions with patronising crap... I don't want/need "attention" from you, all I ask for is coherent, on-topic replies to genuine, simply phrased posts:

​

If you can't/won't participate in a constructive discussion, please stop posting

See the link I posted above, that will help you.

 

[Astro Teacher]

You got that right ..

Are you sure you have stumbled into the right place ?
What did you Google, that brought you here ?

It's Sunday and kind of quiet tonight ..

You are really going to have fun tomorrow ...

Please. I'm a grown up. I can carry my own weight well myself thank you very much.

 

[six7s]

What you will want is a forecast on your own personal transits relative to a point in time, and these forecasts must be practical, something you can actual use in the real world, either personally, or professionally.

Please note that you are employing terms/phrases that are not universally understood by otherwise articulate people

Please help by describing HOW a "forecast of personal transits relative to a point in time" can actually be used "in the real world, either personally, or professionally"

Thank you in advance

 

[Astro Teacher]

Please note that you are employing terms/phrases that are not universally understood by otherwise articulate people

Please help by describing HOW a "forecast of personal transits relative to a point in time" can actually be used "in the real world, either personally, or professionally"

Thank you in advance

Yes, this is a problem with those who would like to debate Astrology. The only way to correct it is to at least familiarize yourself with some of these astrological terms so you will be in a position to actually debate, intelligently, the topic at hand. That is a basic rule of debating any subject in the first place, yes?

 

[arthwollipot]

I'm a bit of a latecomer to this thread, and far be it for me to want to contribute to the dogpile of responses to Astro Teacher, but I am curious about one thing.

Astro Teacher has made a distinction between the "Serious Astrology" that he (I'm assuming "he") practices, and the "junk stuff" that skeptics debunk.

Would you mind, Astro Teacher, outlining the difference? What is the Serious Astrology that you do and how does it differ from what you understand the skeptics to believe astrology is?

 

[Astro Teacher]

I'm a bit of a latecomer to this thread, and far be it for me to want to contribute to the dogpile of responses to Astro Teacher, but I am curious about one thing.

Astro Teacher has made a distinction between the "Serious Astrology" that he (I'm assuming "he") practices, and the "junk stuff" that skeptics debunk.

Would you mind, Astro Teacher, outlining the difference? What is the Serious Astrology that you do and how does it differ from what you understand the skeptics to believe astrology is?

See this link, as it will help you to see the difference.

http://www.tmgnow.com/repository/solar/percyseymour1.html

 

[Skeptical Greg]

Is that you Bronwyn ?

More brilliance from the site you linked to:

THE MOONS OF MARS

Phobos and Deimos were carefully plotted and positioned to function as second hands in their roles as timekeepers of the Cesium second. Beyond the immediate role, why Cesium? Was the metal involved in ion-propelled vehicles used for their capture from the he Asteroid Belt? Has Cesium been a factor in the maintenance of their precise orbits? Whatever the case may be, Phobos and Deimos were installed in the Martian heavens by people from Earth, not Mars.

 

[Jimmy Roberts]

So, by this, you are saying that this force, because it is "weak" has no effect?

I'm saying that because it is very week, any tidal effect the moon has on the water levels in a brain are completely overwhelmed by local forces. The mere act of combing my hair is enough to overwhelm it.

The difference in gravitational force exerted by the moon on opposite sides of the earth is great enough to cause tides. The difference of force on opposite ends of a person or brain is not.

Prove it.

The onus is on you to prove that it does have an effect.

 

[six7s]

See the link I posted above, that will help you.

I assume that you mean the link in this post:

See - http://www.tmgnow.com/repository/solar/percyseymour1.html

Alas... I am none the wiser

It seems that the author (of The Magus of Magnetism: An Interview With Dr. Percy Seymour - An Astronomer's Magnetic Theory of Astrology and How Planetary Motion Orchestrates Solar Activity and Geomagnetism), Bronwyn Elko, is either lying or terminally deluded when she says:

The great historian of science, Otto Neugebauer, pointed out that it is wrong to dismiss the astrology of the ancient world, because it heralded the beginning of an orderly methodology as a means of formulating a theory within which all phenomena could be explained.[21]
<snip/>
21. Otto Neugebauer, The Exact Sciences in Antiquity, New York: Dover, 1969.

I say this after reading the Google Books version of The exact sciences in antiquity By Otto Neugebauer, which - on page 171 - says:

To a modern scientist, an ancient astrological treatise appears as mere nonsense. But we should not forget that we must evaluate such doctrine against the contemporary background. To Greek philosophers and astronomers, the universe was a well defined structure of directly related bodies.

<snip/>

Compared with the background of religion, magic and mysticism, the fundamental doctrines of astrology are pure science. Of course, the boundaries between relational science and loose speculation were rapidly obliterated and astrological lore did not stem - but rather promoted - superstition and magical practices. The case of such a transformation from science to humbug is not difficult to exemplify in our modern world."

Consequently, I am even more convinced that YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE ON ABOUT

If I am wrong, please explain WHY and/or HOW - simply by responding to my posts in your own words

 

[Astro Teacher]

I assume that you mean the link in this post:

Alas... I am none the wiser

It seems that the author (of The Magus of Magnetism: An Interview With Dr. Percy Seymour - An Astronomer's Magnetic Theory of Astrology and How Planetary Motion Orchestrates Solar Activity and Geomagnetism), Bronwyn Elko, is either lying or terminally deluded when she says:

I say this after reading the Google Books version of The exact sciences in antiquity By Otto Neugebauer, which - on page 171 - says:


Consequently, I am even more convinced that YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE ON ABOUT

If I am wrong, please explain WHY and/or HOW - simply by responding to my posts in your own words

Yes, you are wrong, is that okay with you? Seeing how you presume quite a lot, and the fact that I doubt that you read the link through and through, it is quite apparent to me that you have your mind already made up as predetermined by your own bias.

You will learn nothing of astrology that way - not a thing. A skeptic can remain a skeptic with an open mind to subjects they have not studied by actually spending a little time to study before attempting to debate.

You have not shown any inkling of an open mind that shows critical thinking - you are just being critical, to debate a subject you seem to not have any knowledge of with reference to the most basic astrological terms.

Therefore, what is the need to even discuss this subject since you have made it quite obvious that you are not familiar with even the most basic terms of astrology showing the projection comment from you, "... you have no idea what you are on about."

Why would this subject of Astrology even hold the slightest interest for you with this state of mind you have shown in your comments?

 

[six7s]

Please note that you are employing terms/phrases that are not universally understood by otherwise articulate people

Please help by describing HOW a "forecast of personal transits relative to a point in time" can actually be used "in the real world, either personally, or professionally"

Thank you in advance

Yes, this is a problem with those who would like to debate Astrology. The only way to correct it is to at least familiarize yourself with some of these astrological terms so you will be in a position to actually debate, intelligently, the topic at hand. That is a basic rule of debating any subject in the first place, yes?

You are suggesting that the best way for you to help me understand your jargon is to... erm... suggest that I familiarise myself with your jargon...

FAIL

Please note: by dodging simple requests, you are NOT increasing your already meagre credibility

 

[six7s]

Yes, you are wrong, is that okay with you?

Absolutely!

Alas, you don't explain WHY or HOW I am wrong...

So... I don't believe you.

Is that OK with you?

Why would this subject of Astrology even hold the slightest interest for you with this state of mind you have shown in your comments?

I'm here to think and learn

Thanks for nothing

 

[Astro Teacher]

I'm saying that because it is very week, any tidal effect the moon has on the water levels in a brain are completely overwhelmed by local forces. The mere act of combing my hair is enough to overwhelm it.

The difference in gravitational force exerted by the moon on opposite sides of the earth is great enough to cause tides. The difference of force on opposite ends of a person or brain is not.


The onus is on you to prove that it does have an effect.

Does the Sun not effect you? Does the phases of the Moon not have effect on the Earth? Are you aware that Time itself cannot exist without the revolution of the planets? Are you not aware that there are other forces that work together that affect your life? Why would you use gravity as a single argument to debase astrology when one has not mentioned gravity?

If you actually believe that the mere act of "combing your hair" is enough to overwhelm the astrological forces that do affect you (like it or not) then you are seriously deluding yourself.

 

[Nonpareil]

Yes, you are wrong, is that okay with you? Seeing how you presume quite a lot, and the fact that I doubt that you read the link through and through, it is quite apparent to me that you have your mind already made up as predetermined by your own bias.

You will learn nothing of astrology that way - not a thing. A skeptic can remain a skeptic with an open mind to subjects they have not studied by actually spending a little time to study before attempting to debate.

You have not shown any inkling of an open mind that shows critical thinking - you are just being critical, to debate a subject you seem to not have any knowledge of with reference to the most basic astrological terms.

Therefore, what is the need to even discuss this subject since you have made it quite obvious that you are not familiar with even the most basic terms of astrology showing the projection comment from you, "... you have no idea what you are on about."

Why would this subject of Astrology even hold the slightest interest for you with this state of mind you have shown in your comments?

You have yet to comment on the fact that one of the most basic formulas in science destroys your theory in one fell swoop.

 

[Astro Teacher]

Absolutely!

Alas, you don't explain WHY or HOW I am wrong...

So... I don't believe you.

Is that OK with you?


I'm here to think and learn

Thanks for nothing

It is fine with me that you do not believe me. I cannot make you believe anything. That is a personal decision and cannot be assigned to anyone else except yourself. Do you love your mother, your wife, your children? Okay. Prove it.