Moderated What's wrong with porn?

[Southwind17]

There's a difference between being forcably having to do sex for no compensation and a lot of personal and physical damage and choosing to have sex while being filmed and getting paid for it.

See the difference?

You miss the point. There's a difference between having sex while being filmed and getting paid for it and emptying trash cans for a living.

See the difference? No, I suspect not.

 

[LissaLysikan]

You miss the point. There's a difference between having sex while being filmed and getting paid for it and emptying trash cans for a living.

See the difference? No, I suspect not.

The comparison with RAPE is not at ALL similar. AND you know that. You tried to use a pure emotional attack to subvert the argument. You lose.

ETA: Rape is not consensual, by definition. The argument was about if there were some people that could have self esteem doing things consensually that others might not. You lose on so many points that you lose the next argument just from the negative points you got from this one.
There ARE people who collect garbage and have high self esteem. There ARE people that have sex with multiple people that have high self esteem. There ARE people that are the victims of rape that have high self esteem. Hell, there are even people that respond to judgmental internet posters without a clue to the concept of tolerance that have high self esteem. We just get rid of the stress you cause by having sex with the next random stranger we see.

 

[JFrankA]

You miss the point. There's a difference between having sex while being filmed and getting paid for it and emptying trash cans for a living.

See the difference? No, I suspect not.

The job is different, sure. But basically, both are jobs. I know my girlfriend would choose porn actress over trash collector as a job, but that doesn't mean that the majority of women would make the same choice.

By your logic, I should be saying that generally women would like to be porn actresses instead of trash collectors based on my experience.

The point is I don't know. Neither do you.

 

[Leif Roar]

You miss the point. There's a difference between having sex while being filmed and getting paid for it and emptying trash cans for a living.

See the difference? No, I suspect not.

There are many differences between being having sex on screen and collecting trash. Which particular difference do you find relevant to the question of low self-esteem?

 

[Southwind17]

The comparison with RAPE is not at ALL similar. AND you know that. You tried to use a pure emotional attack to subvert the argument. You lose.

No I didn't and no I don't (you think we're playing snap, right?!). I used an example to make a point. I chose from many alternative options one that makes the point well. It's a commonly acknowledged valid approach. If you can't accept the point because you don't like the example, that's just unfortunate. But for your benefit and anybody of similar mindset let's wind the clock back and try this:

Most women taken from a cross section of society might deplore the idea of eating cats. Does that make it a fair comparison?

Unfortunately, deploration and emotion tend to go hand in hand. In fact, one could argue that deploration is an emotional reaction.

 

[LissaLysikan]

No I didn't and no I don't (you think we're playing snap, right?!). I used an example to make a point. I chose from many alternative options one that makes the point well. It's a commonly acknowledged valid approach. If you can't accept the point because you don't like the example, that's just unfortunate. But for your benefit and anybody of similar mindset let's wind the clock back and try this:

Most women taken from a cross section of society might deplore the idea of eating cats. Does that make it a fair comparison?

Unfortunately, deploration and emotion tend to go hand in hand. In fact, one could argue that deploration is an emotional reaction.

Your example was unrelated - rape and choosing a career are not in any way similar and if you don't see the difference ... well, I'm happy for you that you have never been raped. I'm sad for you that you have never had sex.

(edit because the subject of rape as the same as consensual sex made me upset enough to make typos)

 

[JFrankA]

No I didn't and no I don't (you think we're playing snap, right?!). I used an example to make a point. I chose from many alternative options one that makes the point well. It's a commonly acknowledged valid approach. If you can't accept the point because you don't like the example, that's just unfortunate. But for your benefit and anybody of similar mindset let's wind the clock back and try this:

Most women taken from a cross section of society might deplore the idea of eating cats. Does that make it a fair comparison?

Unfortunately, deploration and emotion tend to go hand in hand. In fact, one could argue that deploration is an emotional reaction.

No, still doesn't work because you are still making an assumption that

Eating cats = sex while filmed.

It isn't that way.

 

[Southwind17]

The job is different, sure. But basically, both are jobs.

I find it interesting how easily you seem to justify things using the "it's just a job" argument. Makes me wonder how you feel about these "jobs":

• Executioner
• Back-street abortionist
• Soldier (in Afghanistan, say)
• Japanese whaler
• Malaysian tree feller
• Drug trafficker (illegal, yes, like prostitution)
• Seal culler
• Poppy grower (Afghanistan, again)

I know my girlfriend would choose porn actress over trash collector as a job, but that doesn't mean that the majority of women would make the same choice.

By your logic, I should be saying that generally women would like to be porn actresses instead of trash collectors based on my experience.

What "logic" would that be then?

There are many differences between being having sex on screen and collecting trash.

Exactly. Not a fair comparison.

 

[Southwind17]

Your example was unrelated - rape and choosing a career are not in any way similar ...

Which is exactly why I chose it. You just don't get it, do you? But I see you're a novice here, so I'll cut you some slack.

I'm sad for you that you have never had sex.

Novice immaturity again. More slack.

(edit because the subject of rape as the same as consensual sex made me upset enough to make typos)

Health Warning: Allowing your emotions to affect your objectivity can seriously harm your credibility, and hence longevity, here.

 

[Southwind17]

No, still doesn't work because you are still making an assumption that

Eating cats = sex while filmed.

It isn't that way.

I'm not assuming any such thing. What makes you think that?

 

[LissaLysikan]

Which is excatly why I chose it. You just don't get it, do you? But I see you're a novice here, so I'll cut you some slack.


Novice immaturity again. More slack.


Health Warning: Allowing your emotions to affect your objectivity can seriously harm your credibility, and hence longevity, here.

Advisory: You put yourself in the category of " I want to win even when I know I'm wrong".
Welcome to the killfile. You may be lonely for a bit - you're the first person to admit to being dishonest intentionally I've met in JREF. If I'm lucky, you'll be there alone for a while.
Might I suggest some lessons in proper debate? Such as having valid arguments?

 

[Bikewer]

Although porn is generally presented as being exploitative of women, there is a very large body of material in which the "subject" is male.
Mostly in the line of BDSM material, often with a female dominant involved in applying the various techniques.
Often there is a high degree of humiliation involved as well.

We know that men are willing to pay large sums to professional "doms" for such things....I wonder if they are of the opinion that they are being exploited?

 

[bigred]

Porn is demeaning, since it reduces people to their lowest common instincts and desires, both in what it shows and in what it expects of the viewer. It is demeaning for the same reason watching someone wolf down five hamburgers in a row, or drink down a bottle of vodka and pass out, or is demeaning both to the viewer and the guy who does it.

This doesn't mean sex, food, or drink are bad in themselves. But porn is the abuse of sex.

To say nothing of the (mostly) women who suffer emotional scars/damage from doing so, often severe - esp the younger, naive ones who are very insecure and/or generally have MAJOR self-esteem issues and are taken extreme advantage of as a result. From what I gather, many were also sexually abused as kids too. PS I am not saying any of that from an ivory tower or to point an angry finger, but as a sad observance based on what I have heard, read etc.

Anyway, very nice recap; bravo.

 

[calebprime]

Although porn is generally presented as being exploitative of women, there is a very large body of material in which the "subject" is male.
Mostly in the line of BDSM material, often with a female dominant involved in applying the various techniques.*
Often there is a high degree of humiliation involved as well.

We know that men are willing to pay large sums to professional "doms" for such things....I wonder if they are of the opinion that they are being exploited?

* such as, perhaps, White Boys Can't Breathe.

looks classy in italics

 

[fuelair]

I'm not assuming any such thing. What makes you think that?

Why don't you list your assumptions, list your reasons/evidence for your belief in the validity of your assumptions and then make your point from those assumptions. I believe that would make your case - and prevent the twists and turns in your recent posts.

Just a passing thought.

 

[Belz...]

And I see it the other way. Sometimes those "mysteries" can be dangerous. I think that watching porn can be a good outlet for those kinds of "mysteries".

Either way, we each respond to it differently, so it's impossible to say that porn's one of the banes of civilisation.

 

[Belz...]

Most women taken from a cross section of society might deplore the idea of eating cats. Does that make it a fair comparison?

Yes, actually, because in all cases you can't reach a conclusion with it.

 

[Belz...]

To say nothing of the (mostly) women who suffer emotional scars/damage from doing so, often severe - esp the younger, naive ones who are very insecure and/or generally have MAJOR self-esteem issues and are taken extreme advantage of as a result. From what I gather, many were also sexually abused as kids too. PS I am not saying any of that from an ivory tower or to point an angry finger, but as a sad observance based on what I have heard, read etc.

Anyway, very nice recap; bravo.

Evidence ?

 

[bigred]

I don't have any links to scientific studies proving that water is wet, but I'm sticking w/my opinion on that one too. No offense, but I honestly don't care if you believe/agree with me or not.

 

[Orangem]

Don't you agree that most women taken from a cross section of society would deplore the idea of being a porn actress?

OK. Regardless of my ideals for the sex industry, in all fareness, I believe this question has to be answered with a: "Yes." The fact remains that jobs related to the sex industry are generally frowned upon by society (Christianity has A LOT to do with this). If someone wants to change course and seek a "more respected" work, he or she usually has to hide his or her history from that world. No one would alow a Head of State to have a background as a porn star. Low and/or high self-esteem is just a part of the equation here... a symptom. I believe it is strictly related to how society views the industry. Merely social status. Then again, most things are.