The PG Film - Bob Heironimus and Patty

[SweatyYeti]

Odinn wrote:

The left shoulder is way out which cannot be attributed to shoulder pads.

Thanks for the support, Odinn.


You're correct.....the "left shoulder is way out".....and that's because the skeletons do not account for Patty's exceptional upper-body width.

They're flawed....big time.


The only way they can appear to make a "match" out of Bob's and Patty's body dimensions is...

1) For them to be posted as small images, so the differences in the skeleton's lengths are so small, they're hardly noticeable....and...

2) For them to be overlaid over an image of Patty in which her exceptionally-wide upper-body is fore-shortened by the angle-of-view...(seen mostly from the side, rather than from behind).



Also.....to date....not one, single real-world physical example has been provided to show that the skeletons...(Fric and Frac)....do, in fact, legitimately match each other.


kitakaze's "analysis" is done with the help of "smoke and mirrors"....along with a rather sickly dose of ranting, and babbling.

Basically, he takes the 'Chimpanzee' approach to analysing the PG Film.....howl, wave your hands in the air, and throw as much junk up into the air as possible (smoke and mirrors).....and hope that people 'buy it'.
On Jref.....that'll work, for the "skeptical" point of view.

But, ultimately, it won't hold up.

 

[kitakaze]

You're correct.....the "left shoulder is way out".....and that's because the skeletons do not account for Patty's exceptional upper-body width.

They're flawed....big time.

See the section on Patty's "exceptional" upper body width. Feel free to address the numbers. Numbers... eww. Yuck. Sweaty has a hard time with numbers. Astro will never see any Sweaty rebuttal there.

Oh well, neltana already made it rain in Sweaty World...

A rain of pain.

Also.....to date....not one, single real-world physical example has been provided to show that the skeletons...(Fric and Frac)....do, in fact, legitimately match each other.

Slatty McPosty hears you. Sane people do not.

Those crazy computers will do anything!

kitakaze's "analysis" is done with the help of "smoke and mirrors"....along with a rather sickly dose of ranting, and babbling.

Feel free to address the faceplant collection.

Basically, he takes the 'Chimpanzee' approach to analysing the PG Film.....

Here you go, bubbles. Some brilliant analysis...

Notice the elbows...

Check this out...I modified the Vision Realm Patty skeleton....putting it's arms straight out...and compared them to an average human's skeleton...

Notice any difference??? (Hint: Look at the Elbows.)

A good fit...

Wanna banana?

 

[kitakaze]

 

[SweatyYeti]

Here is an animated-gif that shows the significant difference in the positions of the elbows between an average human skeleton....and Patty's apparent skeleton.
The red circles highlight the location of 3 key measurement points.......all 3 of which...(in Patty's case, at least....not necessarily in Godzilla's, or Barney's )...are non-disguisable by padding.......

Notice that these measurement points are independent of any shoulder padding, or hand extensions.....or, any padding whatsoever.

1) The backbone's....the eye's.....and the elbow's actual locations are all equal to their apparent locations.


Quick side-trail.....hey, kittles....wanna highlight where you think Patty's....umm, I mean Bob's elbow, is located....inside the "suit"...

Somewhere....in a dark and dreary corner of a room....kitzo is yelling...."Don't bother me, I'm playing with my Fric and Frac dolls!!! WHAAA WHAAAA!!!!"



Now...adding blue lines to them, to highlight the differences in both the vertical and the horizontal lengths associated with the elbow's positions...

....we can see that a difference in certain bone lengths, such as the collar bone, and the upper-arm bone...as is the apparent case, with Patty....places the elbow in a significantly different position, relative to the subject's backbone, and head/eyes.

And this difference in position...or, 'reach'...of the elbow, is quantifiable, with measurements which include both a horizontal and a vertical component...(in the case where Patty's arms are being held out away from the body at some intermediate angle.)


Now.....all we need are some numbers....to determine if Patty's shoulder-joint's actual location is equal to it's apparent location.

The elbows will tell us......

 

[kitakaze]

Here is an animated-gif that shows the significant difference in the positions of the elbows between an average human skeleton....and Patty's apparent skeleton.

Apparent to who? A Bigfoot fanatic? I'm sorry, What Patty the Bigfoot's skeleton is supposed to look like is not apparent to me.

Quick side-trail.....hey, kittles....wanna highlight where you think Patty's....umm, I mean Bob's elbow, is located....inside the "suit"...

I told you exactly where. Ballzheimer's sucks.

Good luck with the faceplant collection. It's a keeper.

 

[SweatyYeti]

Here are some numbers....measuring the lengths of the vertical and horizontal lines....relating to the elbow position....or, 'reach'...

These measurements of Patty's 'apparent skeleton', of course, don't mean...or prove...that Patty's skeletal structure is actually the same as the skeleton depicts.


This is just an example to demonstrate what the measurements of Patty's elbow positions would be expected to be like....if, in fact, her shoulder-joint is located exactly where it appears to be located.

Meaning...

If Patty is a real Bigfoot, then her extreme dimensions will result in an 'elbow position index', or, 'total figure'...significantly higher than what Bob's, or an average human's, 'elbow position index' would be.

That higher total figure, if it's significantly enough higher, will prove that Patty's shoulder joint is located further away from her backbone, than an average human's.


If, on the other hand....Patty is nothing more than a 'Bob-in-the-suit'....then her index figure will turn out to be extremely close, or exactly the same, as Bob's figure.
The figures would have to be extremely close, since, as I mentioned before...these measurements are not affected by any potential 'suit padding'. They 'bypass it'......very nicely!

 

[SweatyYeti]

kitakaze wrote:

I told you exactly where. Ballzheimer's sucks.

Yes......you TELL us all kinds of wonderful things, kitzo....but you DEMONSTRATE nothing.

Absolutely.........NOTHING.


INEPTITUDE sucks.....doesn't it?

 

[SweatyYeti]

Something to consider, when looking at the distance that Patty's elbow is away from the side of her body, in this image...is that, if Bob was Patty.....then he had a solid 2 inches of padding on his side...and padding at least an inch thick around his arm.....both of which would have reduced the spacing between his arm and his side...

Yet, we see quite a large amount of space there....and, at the same time, his elbow is still fairly low...indicating that he doesn't have his arms spread out at very much of an angle.


Amazing......simply, amazing...

Now....when looking at this "recreation" of Bob's "former self"....don't forget to subtract a good 3 inches from that gap between his arm and his side....to account for padding.

 

[kitakaze]

Yes......you TELL us all kinds of wonderful things, kitzo....but you DEMONSTRATE nothing.

Absolutely.........NOTHING.

Absolutely nothing? Interesting. Sweaty is flat-out lying. What positive contributions to a debate can liars bring? Not only will I prove that Sweaty knows he just told a lie, I will also demonstrate the fact that Sweaty is not a genuine, honest, and forthright participant in intelligent discussion and debate among adults here at the JREF.

Here is a bold claim by Sweaty...

Patty's arms are longer than the average human's arm length....proportionally speaking.

Please remember that Heironimus, tube, and myself are all humans of unexceptional, average proportions. Here is a post in which I demonstrate with an average human skeleton that Patty's arms are not longer than an average human's arms, proportionally speaking...

Here's one of mangler's original Poser 7, not neltana's Daz Studio, skeleton overlays. One skeleton from a 3D modelling software package put over top of Patty and Bob...



Now let's break out the tape measure and get into some numbers so as to destroy Sweaty's fanatic insanity that the skeletons might not be the same and show once again for clear-headed, rational thinking people that Bob's arms are a great match for Patty's...

Humerus length on Patty skeletal overlay - 1.2 cm

Radius/ulna length on Patty skeletal overlay - 1.1 cm

Humerus length on Heironimus skeletal overlay - 1.2 cm

Radius/ulna length on Heironimus skeletal overlay - 1.1 cm

Question #1) Sweaty, simple yes or no question, was your bold claim "Patty's arms are longer than the average human's arm length....proportionally speaking" correct?

Question #2) Did my demonstration show that the Poser 7 skeleton's humerus and radius/ulna are the same length? Yes or no?

Next, in response to Vort explaining to Sweaty how an arm is measured here...

To measure the arm, one measures from the shoulder joint. Following this method will produce arms of nearly identical length in both Tube and Patty.

Sweaty replied...

That may be true......BUT.....following that method does not account for the significant difference in the distance from the 'fingertips to the feet'...between Patty and most everyone she's compared with.

I presented Sweaty with a number of posts showing my own body measurements, including a comparison of the fingertip to foot measurements between Patty and myself. Though my skeletal proportions are not exceptional, I proved more Squatchy than Patty at 35.81% while, unlike Patty, standing fully erect.

Question #3) Did I or did I not demonstrate a serious flaw in the idea that measuring fingertips to feet is a valid measurement? Yes or no.

INEPTITUDE sucks.....doesn't it?

*KERPLOW*

 

[RayG]

Patty's arms are longer than the average human's arm length....proportionally speaking.

How about the shoulder width?

RayG

 

[makaya325]

Patty, if a human, has quite unusual proportions. She is a massive walking figure, yet moves quite fluidly, unusual for a man in a costume. Not saying that she is real, but it makes you wonder.

 

[Avindair]

Hey, folks --

Long time, no post.

As a former skeptical poster over on BFF, I only have a couple of things to say:

1. Kitakaze? You freaking rock.

2. I'm still flabbergasted at the amount of energy expended over this bloody film.

3. In the years since I posted regularly on BFF, I've changed careers and become a professional 3D Artist and Animator. Observing and duplicating how things move organically is part of how I make my living. As such, I'm here to say that this has only made the PGF look more absurd, not less.

That's just my opinion, of course. If the BF community wouldn't listen to an Oscar-winning special effects and makeup artist, they sure as hell won't listen to a CG VFX guy.

Regardless, I think the BF Community uses their seemingly endless free time to use the red pencil tool on forty year old images in order to sidestep the core questions:

Do we have any real evidence for the existence of an unknown bipedal Great Ape on the face of the entire planet? (And by evidence I'm talking bodies, bones, evidence in the fossil record, unambigious impact on a habitat...you get the idea.)

Nope.

By contrast, do we have evidence that the individual who shot the movie planned this project (storyboards, design work, heck, even script notes) for financial gain? Oh, and do we have an individual with a reasonably credible claim to being a man in a suit?

Yep.

That's pretty much that, folks. All the red lines, CG skeletons, and massive-font hyperbole won't change those facts.

Avindair

...who is more convinced than ever that the entire BF field is a load of utter nonsense.

 

[SweatyYeti]

Question #1) Sweaty, simple yes or no question, was your bold claim "Patty's arms are longer than the average human's arm length....proportionally speaking" correct?

Yes.

Question #2) Did my demonstration show that the Poser 7 skeleton's humerus and radius/ulna are the same length? Yes or no?

No.

Question #3) Did I or did I not demonstrate a serious flaw in the idea that measuring fingertips to feet is a valid measurement? Yes or no.

No.

 

[makaya325]

Do we have any real evidence for the existence of an unknown bipedal

Yes, we do have it

Great Ape on the face of the entire planet? (And by evidence I'm talking bodies, bones, evidence in the fossil record, unambigious impact on a habitat...you get the idea.)

Yes, just look at Gigantopithecus Blacki.

By contrast, do we have evidence that the individual who shot the movie planned this project (storyboards, design work, heck, even script notes) for financial gain? Oh, and do we have an individual with a reasonably credible claim to being a man in a suit?

While it is likely a man in a suit, there is no credible evidence of it being a hoax. Bob H is in it for the money

 

[kitakaze]

Yes.

The statement "Patty's arms are longer than the average human's arm length....proportionally speaking" can not possibly be correct when Patty's arms are not longer than the average human's. Why are you lying to people here?

No.

Really?

Humerus length on Patty skeletal overlay - 1.2 cm

Radius/ulna length on Patty skeletal overlay - 1.1 cm

Humerus length on Heironimus skeletal overlay - 1.2 cm

Radius/ulna length on Heironimus skeletal overlay - 1.1 cm

You know, though you apparently don't, other people here do have tape measures and can verify that you are lying now. Why would you do such a thing?

No.

Yet, my having the distance from my fingertips to my feet when held at my sides being 35.81% of my total body height beats Patty by over 4% and yet I am not slouched over.

What's with the fibbing, ol' Sweat?

 

[makaya325]

Humerus length on Patty skeletal overlay - 1.2 cm

Radius/ulna length on Patty skeletal overlay - 1.1 cm

Humerus length on Heironimus skeletal overlay - 1.2 cm

Radius/ulna length on Heironimus skeletal overlay - 1.1 cm

Complete nonense Kitz. Show us how you arrived at those figures please. (Non-biased sources would be nice).

Kitz argues that the footage is too crappy to extract data from, yet it is ok to extract data to support his agenda?

 

[SweatyYeti]

kitakaze wrote:

The statement "Patty's arms are longer than the average human's arm length....proportionally speaking" can not possibly be correct when Patty's arms are not longer than the average human's.

You're wrong.

 

[SweatyYeti]

Complete nonense Kitz. Show us how you arrived at those figures please. (Non-biased sources would be nice).

Kitz argues that the footage is too crappy to extract data from, yet it is ok to extract data to support his agenda?

You tell him, Mak!

 

[makaya325]

I have to agree with Sweaty here. How can anyone compare a human to a subject in a 42 year old film, and expect to cherrypick acquire results

 

[kitakaze]

Hey, folks --

Long time, no post.

As a former skeptical poster over on BFF, I only have a couple of things to say:

1. Kitakaze? You freaking rock.

*The Fonz* Ayyy! *The Fonz*

Thanks, Avindair, and great to see you.

Regardless, I think the BF Community uses their seemingly endless free time to use the red pencil tool on forty year old images in order to sidestep the core questions:

Do we have any real evidence for the existence of an unknown bipedal Great Ape on the face of the entire planet? (And by evidence I'm talking bodies, bones, evidence in the fossil record, unambigious impact on a habitat...you get the idea.)

Nope.

By contrast, do we have evidence that the individual who shot the movie planned this project (storyboards, design work, heck, even script notes) for financial gain? Oh, and do we have an individual with a reasonably credible claim to being a man in a suit?

Yep.

That's pretty much that, folks. All the red lines, CG skeletons, and massive-font hyperbole won't change those facts.

Oh, let me just get my fingers out of the way because...

*WHAM*



You just nailed it.

That's really straight to the heart of it and it doesn't get any more succinct than that. All the endless scribbles of made up gobbley-gook by people who live in constant denial. You have people who live off the scribbles. That is how they maintain that need to be in that La La Land they are in. They talk about Bigfoot being all across the continent and yet, dagnabbit, we just can't seem to catch a break with these beasts. One of the biggest land mammals in North America and with the greatest range and we are SOL for proof or reliable evidence.

There's not much you can do for people like Sweaty. He will respond to this with some mess of nonsense on blobs and conceptual art. What he will never do is actually address the major flaws in his belief in Bigfoot or deal with the glaring indicators that point to Patterson having pulled off a hoax. No, I don't want to deal with any of that, thanks. Have you seen my latest comparison? and out come the scribbles.

Don't be a stranger, Avindair. I'd love to have someone of your experience around.

Maybe you can help Sweaty understand just how absurd it is both Poser 7 and Daz Studios having the humerus' of their respective skeleton models suddenly shortened just when you stick them like that on Patty and Bob.

Now if only someone who thought Sweaty made any sense would decloak...