Moderated Obama birth certificate CT / SSN CT / Birther discussion

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parky76 said:
exactly. Obama is ****ed if he does..and ****ed if he doesnt. The Birthers hate him for reasons other then his place of birth.

We all know that..and THEY know that.

If I was Obama, I would do EXACTLY what he is doing now. Completely ignore the Birthers..for they are irrelevant. He has a country to run.
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If I even remember correctly the birth certificate wasn't even released to satisfy the birthers, but they jumped onto it. If Obama lifted so much as a finger it would in many ways vindicate the birthers by making them appear as anything less than crazy.

This is a country of laws, and the same standards apply to everyone equally. As far as the government is concerned a COLB stating birth in the U.S. is good enough to establish birth in the United States. Doesn't matter if your name is John Smith or Abdul Rana.

Arus808 said:
And why must these documents be released to the public?
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Fishing. They hope to find something, anything that would look bad. Or the slightest thing that they can grab a hold of and create a conspiracy out of.

None of the past candidates ever did this.
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Well I can think of one difference between him and other candidates, but birthers claim it isn't about that...

and why does Boyntonstu continue to ignore my post?
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What would he write? He doesn't acknowledge mine either, and if he is truly in the birther camp than you won't get a good response. Most you ever get from birthers is the denial of the obvious facts.

If Barack Obama's name was Grahm Wellington and his father was originally from the United Kingdom (and he was white) this wouldn't be an issue to these people.
 
Upchurch said:
boyntonstu, instead of just JAQing off all over this thread, how about answering a few questions?

Is there any reason to think that Obama might not be a natural born citizen of the US? Is there any document or testimony to that effect that has not already been thoroughly debunked?
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Would you like a little veiled racism with your answer, or would you like boyntonstu to lie to you?

I hope Taitz gets legally bitch slapped by this judge too.
 
LarianLeQuella said:
Absofikkinloutly! Even moresoe than "truthers" I would say. :cool:
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Indeed. After all, it is possible for someone to be born in Kenya, whereas it is not possible for skyscrapers to be destroyed by radiationless, falloutless mini-nukes, or whatever the current CT fashion would have us believe.
 
It turns out, that I do NOT have a "Birth Certificate". I instead have a "Certificate of Birth". And it was issued 3 days after I was supposedly born.

I guess this means I was really born in Kenya.
 
parky76 said:
It turns out, that I do NOT have a "Birth Certificate". I instead have a "Certificate of Birth". And it was issued 3 days after I was supposedly born.

I guess this means I was really born in Kenya.
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Aren't all lefties? :D
 
Wait until the people born in Kenya find out they were actually born in Hawaii.
 
Upchurch said:
Birthers are completely nuts. Obama produced his birth certificate already. The state of Hawaii certifies that it is the genuine article and not a fake.

eta: linky

To any reasonable person, that should have ended it right there.
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You know, with a name like Barack HUSSEIN Obama, you would have though that these "birthers" would have compared him to the late Iraqui dictator, Sadam HUSSEIN.

Alas, just like Michael Savage not mentioning (in his book The Savage Nation) that PETA kills more animals than it saves, the Birthers ignore an entire gold mine.
 
Paradox74 said:
You know, with a name like Barack HUSSEIN Obama, you would have though that these "birthers" would have compared him to the late Iraqui dictator, Sadam HUSSEIN.

Alas, just like Michael Savage not mentioning (in his book The Savage Nation) that PETA kills more animals than it saves, the Birthers ignore an entire gold mine.
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Had they done that though, we could simply point out that not all people with the name "Hussein" are bad, and point out that "Hussein" means "good, small, handsome one" (Source) and not "evil dictator", and that judging a man on the basis of his name clearly means that we will have to forever judge every man named Adolf or Timothy or Ted (McVeigh and Bundy, for those of you who might not get the references) as evil murderers or proponents of genocide.

Come to think of it, I think it's been pointed out on several occasions in places, and people never fail to point out the double standard in judging President Obama off the basis of his name (his MIDDLE name I might add) and not doing so for the names I mentioned above. Or they've pointed out that the name "Hussein" far pre-dates both Saddam and Pres. Obama and that we can't let the actions of one man with the name color our perceptions of everyone else who has the name. But then, birthers have never been said to be rational.

ETA: out of curiosity, I looked up the remainder of his name, and found this:

Barak - also Baruch means "Blessed"

Hussein - means "Handsome One"

Obama - is surname based on a given name from the Dholuo language spoken by the Luo people of Kenya. It is based on the verb "bam" meaning "bent", and probably refers either to an infant's arm or leg looking bent just after birth, or to the birth itself having been in the breech position.
Barak was also an Israelite general listed in the Book of Judges. He is listed in Chapter 4 as an associate of the Judge Deborah. Barak, directed by Deborah, leads the Israelites in a victory over a Canaanite army under General Sisera. There was also a modern Israeli Prime Minister named Ehud Barak.
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Obama's a Jew! :eek:

;)
 
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Myron Proudfoot said:
So let’s see if I have the birther conspiracy correct. In the Summer of 1961 Obama’s mom, who is only 18, is about to give birth to her first child. She has two choices.

a) Give birth in a Honolulu Hospital, where she knows she will get good care, surrounded by her family and friends, with a doctor she knows, and where she can go home after a few days with a newborn via an easy car ride, knowing that she has family and friends to help her with her baby

b) She can travel to Kenya, probably a several day trip via airplane (while 9 months pregnant!) buying international airplane tickets even though she’s a college student without a lot of money. Once in Kenya she can give birth aided by an unknown doctor, in a hospital she doesn’t know anything about, surrounded by strangers. Once she’s given birth she has to then repeat her trip back halfway across the world, this time with a newborn.

For some reason she chooses Option B. She makes the trip but manages not to leave any trail of documents behind, such as consular records or visas. She also somehow (and for some odd reason) has someone in a hospital in Honolulu fake a birth record so that an announcement will appear in the Honolulu newspapers and so her son’s official records will say he was born in Honolulu. She then swears her family and friends to secrecy, again for no reason that was apparent in 1961.

Gee, and birthers wonder why the rest of us think they’re crazy. (and, I would add, racist. No one ever questioned the nationality of a white candidate before, and no, there are not “legitimate questions” in this case.)
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You forget the fact that she wouldn't have actually been in Kenya if he was born, as the morons allege, in Mombassa, which I think was part of Zanzibar at the time...and, it wasn't close, btw, to the area where the Obama family lived...so she would have had to go to Zanzibar outside of the area/jurisdiction where her husband's family lived, rather than go to the area where his family lived or to Niarobi, which arguably, would have had the most modern hospital in the region at the time (as the colnial hq for the brits).
 
um, if an American citizen takes a vacation to Kenya, and while on vacation she gives birth, isn't that child still considered a natural born citizen of the USA?

I sure thought so.
 
parky76 said:
um, if an American citizen takes a vacation to Kenya, and while on vacation she gives birth, isn't that child still considered a natural born citizen of the USA?

I sure thought so.
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It apparently depends on the age of the mom. Why would that clause be included? I'm not sure.
 
Travis said:
It apparently depends on the age of the mom. Why would that clause be included? I'm not sure.
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It's a little more complicated than that, but, yes.

The reason is basically that the powers-that-be don't want to be granting US citizenship to people with essentially no connection to the US (as, for instance, Israel does). You don't need to ever have set foot in Israel in your life to be Jewish and to have the right to be an Israeli citizen. Your parents don't have to have set foot in Israel. Your grandparents don't have to have set foot in Israel. Et cetera.

By contrast, the US is a little more restrictive:

* A child born in the US is a citizen.
* The child of two US citizens is a citizen irrespective of circumstances of birth.
* The child of one US citizen (and, of course, a non-citizen) is a citizen only if the citizen parent had a sufficient connection to the US. The exact degree required has changed over the years, but it basically amounts to a residency requirement. You have to have lived in the US for enough time.

Obama's mother hadn't lived in the US for long enough.
 
drkitten said:
It's a little more complicated than that, but, yes.

The reason is basically that the powers-that-be don't want to be granting US citizenship to people with essentially no connection to the US (as, for instance, Israel does). You don't need to ever have set foot in Israel in your life to be Jewish and to have the right to be an Israeli citizen. Your parents don't have to have set foot in Israel. Your grandparents don't have to have set foot in Israel. Et cetera.

By contrast, the US is a little more restrictive:

* A child born in the US is a citizen.
* The child of two US citizens is a citizen irrespective of circumstances of birth.
* The child of one US citizen (and, of course, a non-citizen) is a citizen only if the citizen parent had a sufficient connection to the US. The exact degree required has changed over the years, but it basically amounts to a residency requirement. You have to have lived in the US for enough time.

Obama's mother hadn't lived in the US for long enough.
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I recall a previous thread where this came up, and off the top of my head it was generally agreed upon that it would make for a very interesting case if it was ever tried.

Basically it came down to how the clause would be interpreted, in case that the mother was on vacation (for whatever reason) and not leaving the US on a permanent basis.
 
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