9/11-investigator explains the Holocaust

[dafydd]

What is it with the copy/pasters today? There are two Creationist theses in the GS&P section that are hack jobs as well...I wish they would just plagiarize themselves with some pr0n and save us the grief!

Don't these types have any original thoughts?

 

[bigjelmapro]

Bigjamelpro:"Btw, Israel's nukes aren't illegal by any means. ..

1. Last Spring, Rose Gottemoeller, an assistant secretary of state and Washington's chief nuclear arms negotiator, asked Israel to sign the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. Israel refused.

Not illegal.

2. The United Nations passed a resolution calling on Israel to sign the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and to submit to inspections. Israel refused.

The UN has passed many resolutions. A waste of paper. The UN cannot force Israel to sign the NPT, and neither would it with India or Pakistan. And this is not illegal.

3. The IAEA asked Israel to sign the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and to submit to inspections. Israel refused.

How is this illegal? This concept eludes you.

4. Iran's formal notification to the IAEA of the planned construction of the backup fuel-rod facility underscores that Iran is playing by the rules of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty which Iran has signed.

Do you even know what this means? See below and yet again, go to the IAEA website and see their reports.

5. Iran allows IAEA inspections of all its facilities.

Its disclosed facilities, mostly, yes. Not all. Its secret ones? Nope.

6. Contrary to face-saving claims, it appears that the US and Israel were both caught off guard by Iran's announcement. The reasoning is simple. Had the US or Israel announced the existence of he new facility before Iran's notified the IAEA, it would have put Iran on the defensive...

Which 'announcement'? The recent blunder by the Iran that inadvertently disclosed one of its secret facilities in Qom? The one Israel and the US has been observing being built for some time now? It wasn't an announcement by any means.

Qom (Ghom)

7. The IAEA and all 16 United States Intelligence Agencies are unanimous in agreement that Iran is not building and does not possess nuclear weapons.

See IAEA's reports on their grave concerns over Iran's history of nuclear research, from explosives research only used in nuclear implosion devices, fitting of nuclear warheads to ballistic missiles, and.....have you followed the news as of late? Nice.

8. In 1986, Mordachai Vanunu blew the whistle and provided photographs showing Israel's clandestine nuclear weapons factory underneath the reactor at Dimona.

And? Illegal how?

9. Israel made the same accusations against Iraq that it is making against Iran, leading up to Israel's bombing of the power station at Osirik. Following the invasion of 2003, international experts examined the ruins of the power station at Osirik and found no evidence of a clandestine weapons factory in the rubble.

Another deflection. Again, discussed elsewhere and a failure on your part again of actual historical events and investigations conducted even in 1991.

10. The United Nations has just released the Goldstone Report, a scathing report which accuses Israel of 37 specific war crimes..

Another deflection. Discussed in other threads. Even B'Tselem, which is sourced in that very report over a dozen times, disagrees strongly with the report. Its been ripped apart and the UN has thus been ridiculed, some more.

The your usual practice of deflections over or are you going to reply with another cut-and-paste drivel from a conspiracy website?

Back to youtube with you.

 

[bigjelmapro]

Endless war for endless peace, eh fellas? When is the last time Iran or Persia rolled their military into another country? In the 13th century, maybe.... When was the last time Israel rolled their US requisitioned tanks into one? Last month! Give us all a break and for gods sake cut the crap. ENOUGH!!

Ever heard of the concept of proxy-warfare? Hezbollah? Hamas? How about the Iranian missiles they purchased used against Israel? Nice one.

'US requisitioned tanks'? Hehe. Merkava tanks are Israeli made. The APCs Israel are either locally made, but are predominantly those of Russian origin, acquired from Egypt and Syria in their failed wars against Israel. I've served on several bases where these tanks are situated and have seen them with my own eyes.

The only US tanks that Israel has in their possession are relics based in Latrun, a tank museum --> http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=120102

You really make this too easy.

And boy, have I taken the bait on these deflections. I will stop now.

 

[NoZed Avenger]

BTW, as noted above by me...the history of the holocaust and its fact is not based upon the witness statements or the testimony of victims that you would considered biased. It is almost entirely based upon the evidence the German's themselves created. The records of camps, train schedules, lists of names, decrees establishing Ghettos, decrees requiring Jews to report for transportation to the East, the Nurenburg laws, the Marshal Law decrees of the occupying germans, their own photos, thier reports, their architectual plans of camps, the Wansee conference, Himmlar's Poznan speech, Hitler's own words and threats.

Well, sure. But other than that . . . .

 

[Trojan]

Nothing I said even came close to intimating that I had proof that the Germans were coerced.....Where is your proof that they weren't?

Nothing like turning the burden of proof on its head.

 

[Jontg]

Ever heard of the concept of proxy-warfare? Hezbollah? Hamas? How about the Iranian missiles they purchased used against Israel? Nice one.

'US requisitioned tanks'? Hehe. Merkava tanks are Israeli made. The APCs Israel are either locally made, but are predominantly those of Russian origin, acquired from Egypt and Syria in their failed wars against Israel. I've served on several bases where these tanks are situated and have seen them with my own eyes.

If nothing else, I will say that you guys have awesome armor. Oh, and soon you'll have one of the best standard infantry rifles in the world. And I guess you can afford to rely on Cold War relics for your air force when your only current enemies don't have so much as a hang-glider.
ETA: Scratch that, apparently you just decided to skip the F-22 completely. Makes sense, I guess--why shell out for an Ipod Mini when you can wait a few months for a Zune HD?
ETA2: *DROOOOOOL*

 

[dtugg]

ETA: Scratch that, apparently you just decided to skip the F-22 completely. Makes sense, I guess--why shell out for an Ipod Mini when you can wait a few months for a Zune HD?
ETA2: *DROOOOOOL*

Foreign sale of the F-22 is banned by Congress. And the F-22 is a better fighter than the F-35.

 

[bigjelmapro]

Oh, and soon you'll have one of the best standard infantry rifles in the world.

We already have for over 3 years now with numerous IDF units.

And I guess you can afford to rely on Cold War relics for your air force when your only current enemies don't have so much as a hang-glider.

Lol. You know very little about this history of the Israeli military industry, do you? Israel used to have their own attack aircraft industries for 20+ years, which was replaced via political pressure and bribes to end it. i.e. Kfir, to be replaced by f-15/f-16s. Prior to this used whatever the IAF could get on the market.

Current enemies? Yeah, because Israel's previous enemies did so well against the IAF in dogfights. And does it really matter what our current enemies do? They aren't exactly a standard to live by.

ETA: Scratch that, apparently you just decided to skip the F-22 completely. Makes sense, I guess--why shell out for an Ipod Mini when you can wait a few months for a Zune HD?

As to the above, doesn't make too much sense since we don't really have enemies that fly anything beyond handgliders.

Thx for the entertainment.

 

[Jontg]

Foreign sale of the F-22 is banned by Congress. And the F-22 is a better fighter than the F-35.

Didn't know the first part, thanks for letting me know--but the F-22 being a better fighter was part of my point. It's a dedicated air superiority craft, which isn't really a great investment when air supremacy isn't your top priority (see previous crack). Come to think of it, what is the IDF's top priority right now? I mean, specifically?
Oh, and I know about the Kfir--if it were still in service, it would also fall under the definition "Cold War relic." And did you have to give it that gargantuan nosecone? It looks like something ZAZ would design.

 

[Simon39759]

Foreign sale of the F-22 is banned by Congress. And the F-22 is a better fighter than the F-35.

I think I heard or read people mentioning that maybe an exception would be made for Israel, though.
Partly so that the country would retain its competitive edge against one of its neighbour which is now deploying some kind of advanced anti-aerial weaponry. Apparently, Israel strongly considered a preventive strike before this deployment was completed and the acquisition of F-22 was seen as an alternative to that.
Maybe I am wrong; and I certainly have no sources to confirm that but maybe somebody will?

 

[Simon39759]

Didn't know the first part, thanks for letting me know--but the F-22 being a better fighter was part of my point. It's a dedicated air superiority craft, which isn't really a great investment when air supremacy isn't your top priority (see previous crack). Come to think of it, what is the IDF's top priority right now? I mean, specifically?
Oh, and I know about the Kfir--if it were still in service, it would also fall under the definition "Cold War relic." And did you have to give it that gargantuan nosecone? It looks like something ZAZ would design.

I guess the target for Israel Air Force would be the ability to conduct surgical air raids deep into its neighbour's territory to remove specific threat (rocket sites; terrorist training camps or nuclear research facility).

Also, isn't the Kfir based on the French Mirage III?

 

[Moss]

It's interesting that our denying friends were unable to convince anyone here. And I can only say: thanks for making me reread stuff. It's a grisly but convincing read.
And for the F-22 deal: WRONG THREAD!

 

[Jontg]

Maybe we should make aircraft specs the new pastry recipes...

 

[headscratcher4]

Nothing I said even came close to intimating that I had proof that the Germans were coerced.....Where is your proof that they weren't?

That burden, if it exists, is completely on you. I don't belive it was forced. Nothing indicates that it was (save for 9/11 Investigator and other denirers' charges that it was)/\. But as I have already said: you don't need personal testimony to prove the holocaust.

 

[headscratcher4]

Proof of that would be very helpful to confirming your thesis beyond any reasonable doubt. Do you have any links to a transcript or film of Hitler saying he was going to kill/exterminate the Jews? That should be a snap since as you clearly state "Hitler said it constantly". Are there any credible examples of minutes of meetings where exterminating the Jews was discussed by German officials? Have they been properly forensically authenticated? Show me the link. I always like to see, read, and hear both sides of the story....Is there a cohesive list of the 6 million that were murdered? Where is the link for this list?

I believe that the official holocaust story has suffered greatly in credibility because of spurrilous frauds such as the lampshades and soap bussiness along with the 4 million gassed at Auchwitz tale that has been going down invrementally ever since it's inception..These stories were also printed by those who were once called credible sources also, weren't they? The "deniers could not have been given better ammunition by Geobels himself than was given them by these fraudulant claims....Thanks

Completely untrue. Except for the very narrow focous of deniers, and the wilfully ignorant such as your self, there is not doubt among serious and even amature scholars that the basic facts of the holocaust remains completely intact.

Again, the burden of proving that it didn't take place isn't on me, it is on those who deny that it took place. I'm not obliged to do your research for you...especially as you yourself have admited that you are not well read on the subject. I am well read. I don't feel any obligation to prove that to you. It will be well worth your time to study the holocaust. And, you can do it by just studying the german documentation, you don't need any testimony at all... there are hundreds of sources, which you will discover with just seconds on the internet.

 

[jmh423]

I stumbled into this thread after hearing it was a fair discussion forum for "conspiracy theorists" such as myself to engage with intelligent objective people. (I was invited by a full time professional "debunker" on youtube.) So far I have been the only one who advocates the non official story on this thread...Many of the regulars here openly call themselves...NWO gatekeeper, government loyalist etc...I wondered what was up, and alas...This BBC report exposes this whole site for what it is...A propaganda swamp terminally infested with a bunch of low grade professional operators....
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BBC Attack Piece Promotes Cottage Industry Of Debunkers

Self professed “skeptics” claim they promote critical thinking while doing the exact opposite

Steve Watson
Tuesday, Oct 6, 2009.........

Some choice excerpts......

"The BBC cannot resist attacking anyone who questions the establishment line and counters mainstream accounts of events, especially if they make up part of the new and exciting alternative media that is contributing to the corporation’s ongoing fossilization."

"That is why in a feature article today, the corporation is promoting a group of “scientists and skeptics” whose declared mission is to vigorously debunk those who are questioning the “accepted versions” of events."

Gee does that discription fit any of these trolls here??? LOL

“While many people find them harmless fun, others believe there is a darker truth – that conspiracy theories are rewriting history, warping the present and altering the future. Enough is enough they say – it’s time to fight back.” the report reads.The article centres around the “non profit” James Randi Educational Foundation (JREF), which charges £175 a ticket to its conferences, events that equate to little more than rabid debunking fests on everything from 9/11 truth to research claiming mercury containing vaccinations are harmful."

"In a deliberate Orwellian warping of language, JREF attendees are described as “skeptics” who are promoting critical thinking”:

Kindered spirits....You bet!! LOL



"The BBC report on JREF brazenly lumps in questions over the 9/11 attacks with moon landing conspiracies and individuals who claim to have paranormal spoon-bending powers.
It highlights the fact that those who have questioned and challenged the findings of the 9/11 commission have had a “massive impact”, however, the tone of the piece suggests this is thoroughly negative and even dangerous."

How dare they question the official government story...This is quite dangerous!!! Thanks for being there, gatekeepers...You're a godsend!!

"Presumably the 9/11 commissioners themselves should be a target for the JREF debunkers, given that six of the ten have openly questioned the Commission’s findings and described the whole thing as a whitewash."



"The ever present anti-semite smear (or neo nazi scum in my case) against the 9/11 truth movement (or ANYONE not adhearing to the prepackaged governmental garbage) is present, tick that prerequisite off the list. Apparently British investigative journalist Jon Ronson (he who lied in his own book in claiming he entered the elite Bohemian Grove gathering with Alex Jones) posted a comment on a 9/11 truth forum and was, according to the BBC, “abused and ridiculed because he is Jewish”.

Demonization of the internet is there too, with the following lazy smear:

“Conspiracy theorists have used the internet to co-ordinate increasingly slick attacks on the accepted versions of events… Conspiracy theories predate the internet but the web has provided a fast, accessible platform for groups to unite, gather research and disseminate information without even meeting or leaving their houses.”



"The piece also intimates that a belief in a conspiracy regarding the assassination of JFK is something to be classed as kooky or revisionist. A reader comment nails the ridiculousness of such a claim:

So I guess you’re also including the “House Select Committee on Assassinations” who in 1970 concluded that “The committee believes, on the basis of the evidence available to it, that President John F. Kennedy was probably assassinated as a result of a conspiracy. The committee was unable to identify the other gunmen or the extent of the conspiracy.” This was a three-year investigation carried out carried out by the US Government. Those loony conspiracy nuts."



"If the BBC and JREF are trying to convince the general public to believe something different, they have a great deal of work to do, given that some forty years later 7 in 10 stark raving mad kooks believe the assassination was the result of a nefarious plot, not the act of a lone killer."

Another reader comment on the BBC piece injects some common sense into an otherwise blithering mess of an article:

"Some conspiracy theorists are plain nuts, but the ability and right to question what is commonly taught is extremely important. To assert that all conspiracy theories are bunk is the same as saying “believe what you are told”. Surely this is dangerous thinking?"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


I must say that most of you guys are reasonably intelligent, (other than Skeptic, the Trojan), and well trained at your craft, and even somewhat entertaining at times...But in the final annalysis the whole pack of you are extremely transparent, and there isn't a whit's worth of difference in any of you whackie NWO gatekeepers...Nice try sportos!! Keep wasting your time...At least while you guys are sitting on these silly threads you are not partaking of any other detrimental mischief, like the guys you are defending...Thanks

 

[eccles]

I just saw this thread and even if I made the time to read it, I would puke at all the opinions that the Holocaust never happened. I just finished reading Michael Shermer "Why People Believe Weird Things" He devotes a few chapters to the Holocaust and the fools who deny it ever happened.

I have had some good Jewish friends and have met victims of the Holocaust - those who were lucky enough to survive. I have seen the NAZI Brands on their arms.

I was involved in doing a book about the Holocaust and had to copy hundreds of graphic and horrible photos of the Victims and the conditions under which they spent their last days. I remember a photo of a large pile of spectacles, I think at Auswicz. My darkroom assistant told me he was very sick after one day making copies of those photos. We had to make negatives and prints of all this stuff.

So anyone who still claims the Holocaust never happened should get into a gas oven with the gas turned on. I would gladly help that person.

 

[jmh423]

Here's what I think lies at the heart of this whole "holocaust" obsession with the Abe Foxmans of the world of which you parrots are all a part of....A great American speaks out after being terrorized 7 years for daring to speak up for a constituant...

Youtube:

"Traficant On The Brutal Israeli Domination Of US"

"Traficant Refuses To Recant To Zionist Hannity"

It's the beginning of the end for Henry Kissinger, Abe Foxman and their ever droning pack of lying scum as in the US and British media, well as his handlers in London and his masters in the Vatican.....We are drying up the swamp of money that allows these tyrants to operate..Then they'll just crawl back under whatever rock they can to avoid prosecution, which is forthcoming very soon....Traficant is just the first of many....Soon the so called power elites and all you dupes and shills will be laughed at heartily...I will be there with a cold beer and a big smile...Thanks boys

 

[apathoid]

Posting other peoples thoughts yet again, I see. Are you capable of thinking for yourself, jmh423? Serious question.

 

[jmh423]

Posting other peoples thoughts yet again, I see. Are you capable of thinking for yourself, jmh423? Serious question.

Hey champ, why are you so worried about me posting info from other sources? If you read my former posts you would know that I am obviously capable of thinking for myself. The tactic that you are using like a broken record is an elementary disinfo tool that is easily detected by any objetive reader of this thread...Though from what I can see there is little chance of anyone reading anything that is printed on this site other than the group of boring government apologists and shills that live here.

I notice that you never refuted anything Mr Watson wrote in the items I posted, but rather just made a futile attempt at a weak cheap shot at me. Did you take the 10 minutes to watch the two clips of Jim Traficante? He, like Areil Sharon made the point that Israeli zionists control the US government...Are you capable of responding to this or aren't you authorized to at this point. You and all your cohorts here are dull tools and easily seen for exactly what you all are. Reading what you guys post is about as enlightening as watching Fox News CNN or BBC...You guys aren't exactly breaking any new ground sport.