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The Freeman Movement and England

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The Patriot Act has been found to be UNCONSITUTIONAL in courts all across the USA. Check it out. It's an evil nonsense. Hatched out of Jesuit Georgetown University. Throw it in the bin. And get back to the USA Constitution. Fools !

If the USA is not bankrupt how come the bailout was a giant fraud ?

Check it out where? May I mention that the US constitution is now a rough 2 centuries out of date? Do you really think going back to the constitution is a good idea?

This is the first I've heard about the bailout being a giant fraud. I would assume the same for many.

This is a SKEPTIC's forum. In order to convince anyone, including me, you will need solid evidence, or at the very least, a means by which we can access your sources.
 
I was just wondering why you objected to laws made by elected representatives, but not laws made by unelected judges.

But I repeat, laws are NOT made by elected representatives. They make only Statutes, which are instruments of commercial law. Valid only with the consent of the governed.

Regards
 
Nothing is lawfully binding on me without my personal, expressed consent.

But in your case everything is binding on you because you have already consented to it. Even commercial contracts.

So, who is free and who is not ?

:)

Once again, read my previous posts with care. You call them fictions, so prove me wrong. You know you can. Or do you?

Try a long think before answering that one.
 
Oh, do tell us of these elected kings.

Dear Madam,

Do you not know the bible ? The first king of Israel was Saul. He was elected by the people.

Now, kings (monarchs) are a folly. But there are countless elected kings. And have been throughout human history.

Why, I dare say you may find some if you care to read early English history.

Regards
 
It says so in the Act of Settlement and in the Bill of Rights.

Treason and treachery are committed if a foreign power is negotiated with outside of Parliament on matters of national sovereignty.


Can you provide the exact citation and wording?
 
Once again, read my previous posts with care. You call them fictions, so prove me wrong. You know you can. Or do you?

Try a long think before answering that one.

I have read your previous posts with care. If you would exercise the same care in distinguishing between commercial contracts (which require consent) and the laws of England this world would be brighter and more happy place.

Regards
 
I also love how FOTLers say that laws (oh I'm sorry, statutes, which of course are not reallylaws) made by democratically elected representatives cannot bind them without their specific consent but don't even flinch at the idea that an agreement between a despotic 13th century monarch and his barons is binding on everyone in Britain forever.
 
Dear Madam,

Do you not know the bible ? The first king of Israel was Saul. He was elected by the people.

Now, kings (monarchs) are a folly. But there are countless elected kings. And have been throughout human history.

Why, I dare say you may find some if you care to read early English history.

Regards
You claimed that England's kings were all elected. A biblical character who was king on the other side of the world does not count as evidence for your claim. Try again.
 


Well Sir,

Government requires the expressed consent of the governed, unless, of course, you wish to live in a tyranny.

The laws of Parliament (so-called) are all Statutes. They are Acts of Parliament. But not laws.

Do you not know this ?

They all go on the Statute Book.

They are valid, binding only on those who CONSENT to them. And, to trick you a new language is invented called legalese. It makes them binding on you whether you are aware of the language or not. Because you are deemed to have consented to them unless you expressly do NOT consent to them. Such is commecial law.

This is rather simple but profound. And I dare to say they have some implications for your understanding of law and statutes.

Regards
 
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Sir, I have not only checked it out. But so have tens of thousands of other law-abiding people. In England alone. And in the USA, Canada, South Africa, Australia, New Zealand and many other places.

Life is choice. Our courts run on commercial law. And in commercial law their contracts require your Consent.

It's really that simple.

The law is the law. Do not confuse it with Statutes and the scam of commercial courts.

Try this as an example. An English website -

FMOTL

Right. For the link: thanks, I'll check it.
For the evidence: oh wait a minute...
I realise I'm being a bit impatient. I'll give you time. If the thread is still here in 2 weeks and you are still replying, then I'll keep patient until such a date.
 
You claimed that England's kings were all elected. A biblical character who was king on the other side of the world does not count as evidence for your claim. Try again.

Agatha (and I hope you don't mind me calling you this ?),

I did NOT say all Englands kings were elected. In fact, I said the very opposite. I said that the head of the state in which we are living is an UNELECTED DYNASTY. (As you can clearly see on this thread).

Secondly, I said the early kings included those who were elected. And I gave you an example in King Saul.

Which is not good enough for you.

I further suggested you read a book on early English history.

But (unless I am mistaken) you wish me to read it for you.

Would you care to say when, and in which location, I should do this service for you, and whether my consent and yours has been obtained before it takes place ?

Yours most sincerely
 
I have read your previous posts with care. If you would exercise the same care in distinguishing between commercial contracts (which require consent) and the laws of England this world would be brighter and more happy place.

Regards
Wait 2 and half seconds: Explain to me how the two differ? A contract (written) is a legally binding document. Not obliging with the terms of your contract means the company can then sue you on the grounds of breach of contract. This way, scammers are run out of business (good thing), and corporations have punishment regulated by the law (other good thing). I fail to see how taxes are a contract.

You might need to run by me exactly how commercial law operates again...
 
And, to trick you a new language is invented called legalese. It makes them binding on you whether you are aware of the language or not.

*guffaws* Please tell me you don't think "legalese" is the serious name of a language created especially to confuse you.
 
So what happens to people who refuse to consent to pay council tax or who are caught by the police driving having refused to consent to pay insurance? If you can provide case references it would be useful. Thanks.


These are two different things. As you surely admit. I have already said that insurance is more complex because most people drive vehicles which are already registered by the state. Which makes them effective owners.

But, in respect of council tax, if a person does not wish the goods and services being offered by a council he/she is lawfully entitled to decline the offer.

Yours sincerely
 
This is a somewhat unfair question to ask a freeper as it seems simple but represents some of the core concepts that make a freeper a freeper, and unfortunately most freepers lack the analytical chops to respond clearly. I used to be a nut, so I have a pretty decent grasp of all of this.


The "common law" just is, like the shape of a circle, like the beauty of a rose, like the taste of honey, like the thrill of victory, like the agony of defeat, like the four sides of a square, like the... ummm... infinite reach of human stupidity. It is innate to all existence and obviously known to all except the hopelessly corrupt.

Best descriptive paragraph ever.

Judges discover common law, the same way the mathematician discovers the value of pi. A seemingly obscure distinction, but essential in understanding the base theoretical underpinnings of freepers. Law is not created by judges, just discovered.

This is what most call "natural law" theory, and when freepers appeal to "common law," this is generally what they mean. It is a popular school of thought around the time of American independence.

The problem with all of this is that the underlying assumption, that all people share the an innate concept of right and wrong is true to a point about obvious matters and is workable in rural culturally homogeneous societies circa 1750 but breaks down as societies become more complex and diverse. While "don't kill for no reason" is an "obvious" moral rule that to some level can be seen as innate, it boggles the mind how one could "discover" traffic laws like speed limits in cities. (note the general freeper hostility to traffic codes and regulatory laws)

Likewise, as societies become diverse, "common sense" things for someone in England like "women should not go topless in public" is nothing near common sense for an African native. for whom going topless is a traditional indication of being unmarried.

For most people it becomes clear that some level of legal positivism, that the law is what we say it is rather than some innate "true law," is necessary for society to function. Freepers are the extreme end of refusing to do this and then building wildly strange analytical frameworks to fit their prejudices and beliefs into the "natural law" framework.

Awesome post. Thanks!
 
*guffaws* Please tell me you don't think "legalese" is the serious name of a language created especially to confuse you.

No Sir, I no longer think on the matter at all, since I know it plainly. The legal industry have invented their own language. Which any society is entitled to do. In this case the 'Law Society'. Why, you might buy Black's Law Dictionary and be amazed by its definitions yourself.

Regards
 
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