• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

The Freeman Movement and England

Status
Not open for further replies.
joe911 said:
I would never put myself in a position where anyone would have reason to suspect me of any wrongdoing.
Click to expand...

To be fair,.... that's not entirely under your control. The late Senator Ted Kennedy found himself on the TSA's no-fly list because someone on the watch list used his name. Brandon Mayfield was arrested because his fingerprints resembled those found in the wake of the Madrid train bombings. While I'm responsible for my own actions, I cannot be responsible for the actions of all of those people whose partial fingerprints share some similarity with my own.

... and you can't keep people with fingerprints similar to yours from hatching bomb plots. I assume you would appreciate a chance to distinguish yourself from them. That's exactly what many of the Gitmo prisoners were NOT given.
 
Especially said:
Hi there Agatha,

Thanks for the most sensible question so far on this thread.

In answer to your question -

'What exactly is it that you are intending to achieve' ?

My answer is simple. The people of England deserve their freedom from the tyranny of government that is no government.

The people of England obey the law of England. That is, the Common Law. They are NOT unlawful. In fact, they obey the law.

But, between them and the law is a fake system. You have one in the USA also.
Click to expand...
Like many of the people responding to you on this thread, I am British and I live in England. While the political setup of the US is fascinating in its own right, I had thought the subject of this thread was the Freeman movement in England.

It's called 'government' and it bills you whether you like it or not. It can even shut down your own Constitution and can do what it likes in Congress. It can make you pay for its own system. It can trash your Constitution before you are even aware of it. The lunatics took over the political system a long, long time ago. And they are still doing it.

There is nothing ahead except slavery if we reject the foundations of the law on which our nations were built. And no corrupt regime, no corrupt corporated judges, lawyers, bankers, and politicians should rob us of our basic rights. Enshrined within our own Constitutions.

The Common Law.

Have you seen the Youtube of John Quade on 'Common Law' yet ? It should really make you think.

Selfishness has brought us to a crisis. There is no future except to reject fake government and the illegal robbery of your own rights.
Click to expand...

All that was very interesting but I am not a public meeting, so you don't need to address me as if I were. (That is a nod to Queen Victoria. :D )

I don't want to watch youtube videos, I'm watching Mastermind while I'm posting here. If you can't explain things in your own words, I'm not going to start chasing down videos.

I asked for examples and asked you about council tax and car insurance - any chance you could address this?
 
joe911 said:
I read in another thread on this that this happened to a FOTL over at TPUC and thier responce was "the judge should be fired for not knowing the law". Its an endless circle of woo.
Click to expand...

What judges are you talking about ?

Do you know that all courts in England are registered corporations ? Sorry to spring that FACT on you. But, just for the record. They are profit making entities that have shareholders, directors and make profits. Check it out.

As for the court system, it operates NOT under the Common Law of England but under a totally different law. Commercial Law. That's fact number 2. If you don't know this you will never see how you are being conned.

Thirdly, the Common Law of England is that law which is superior to all courts. It can be appealed to and is supreme. Didn't know that, yes ?

The Common Law of England makes it clear that governments govern ONLY with the consent of the governed. You do NOT have to pay council tax, tv licences, or ANY taxes UNLESS you consent to do so. That is plain, fair, and honest.

Am I going to fast for you ? You consent to these things without hardly knowing it.

When you are sent your Council Tax bill from a council are you aware the Council itself is a registered corporation ? Are you aware they NEVER tell you exactly what goods and services they are offering you in the first place ? Now, what sort of contract is it they are they offering you ? Exactly ? You never ask them. So they chase you and take you to their place of business. The courts. Where you are fined. And you consent to that too. Imagine a restaurant where you are billed before you have ordered anything ! But you accept it. That is what I mean.

At no point do you say NO. If that's not 'Social Engineering' I don't know what is !

Get it yet ? Statutes require your CONSENT. And Council Tax is just one scam forced on you. You can consider it and reject it perfectly lawfully. Why not visit, say, FMOTL website ? There are countless cases of this. It's there in black and white. The Common Law of England is our friend. The rest is scam, statute, and bogus courts.

http://www.fmotl.com/forum/

Sounds reasonable, yes ? You have every right to decide you do NOT want these services. You never asked for them. Your choice matters. You do NOT give consent. Etc.

So, who is free and who is enslaved ?

Simple, yes ?
 
Last edited:
Especially said:
As for 'rhetoric' why not find out the difference between Statutes and the Common Law. Do at least this. As a favour to yourself. You can then see if its rhetoric or not. Because one thing is sure - you have not examined these things, have you ?
Click to expand...

I have. I know the difference. You have a slavish dependency to centuries old theories about law that the evolving nature of civilization proved unworkable and are using it to fool yourself that your political opinions are innate truth rather than just your opinions.

Simple as that.
 
If you don't watch or record television services as they are being broadcast, you don't need to pay the TV licence. What's the problem? Don't watch it.
 
Especially said:
What judges are you talking about ?

Do you know that all courts in England are registered corporations ? Sorry to spring that FACT on you. But, just for the record. They are profit making entities that have shareholders, directors and make profits. Check it out.

As for the court system, it operates NOT under the Common Law of England but under a totally different law. Commercial Law. That's fact number 2. If you don't know this you will never see how you are being conned.
Click to expand...

Ok,so you're telling me that judges do not know thier job? On thier first day they are all given the mason handguide and told that although they may have an enthusiasm for justice,they really are just tools of "THE CORPORATION" and will spend the rest of thier lives making profits for "da man". Someone earlier has allready explained to you what a corporation is,and why you are wrong about thier use in this context.

Especially said:
Thirdly, the Common Law of England is that law which is superior to all courts. It can be appealed to and is supreme. Didn't know that, yes ?

The Common Law of England makes it clear that governments govern ONLY with the consent of the governed. You do NOT have to pay council tax, tv licences, or ANY taxes UNLESS you consent to do so. That is plain, fair, and honest.

Am I going to fast for you ? You consent to these things without hardly knowing it.

When you are sent your Council Tax bill from a council are you aware the Council itself is a registered corporation ? Are you aware they NEVER tell you exactly what goods and services they are offering you in the first place ? Now, what sort of contract is it they are they offering you ? Exactly ? You never ask them. So they chase you and take you to their place of business. The courts. Where you are fined. And you consent to that too. Imagine a restaurant where you are billed before you have ordered anything ! But you accept it. That is what I mean.

At no point do you say NO.

Get it yet ? Statutes require your CONSENT. And Council Tax is a scam forced on you. You can consider it and reject it perfectly lawfully.

Sounds reasonable, yes. I do NOT want these services. My choice matters. I do NOT give consent. Etc.

Simple, yes ?
Click to expand...

I dont need you to explain anything to me,becase the entire FOTL movement has had nothing but fail after fail after fail. I will be a good law abiding citizen and pay my taxes,One of my best friends is a lawyer,how is a FOTL supposed to argue thier case in court when lawyers dont even agree with thier woo?

Also,you say you do not want thier services,so am i right in presuming that if you were to collapse now we arent to call an ambulance for you,because it is a service that you do not want?
 
Last edited:
Especially said:
Thirdly, the Common Law of England is that law which is superior to all courts. It can be appealed to and is supreme.
Click to expand...

Goodness me.

How exactly does that work? Exactly what is the procedure for "appealing to the Common Law of England"?

Where, and with whom, do I file the paperwork? Who adjudicates the appeal? How is the verdict delivered? Who is responsible for enforcing the verdict? And what exactly happens when the verdict of "the Common Law of England" disagrees with the verdict given by the courts, which are backed up, ultimately, by policemen who will come and arrest you and place you in prison if you do not obey the verdict?


Sounds reasonable, yes ? You have every right to decide you do NOT want these services. You never asked for them. Your choice matters. You do NOT give consent. Etc.
Click to expand...

And here's where the problem comes in.

The person who "consents" and pays his taxes will not be bothered by policemen coming and forcibly removing him from his house and placing him in prison. He will be free to come and go as he sees fit, engage in any activities compatible with law, and generally go about his business.

The person who "does NOT give consent" is looking at the inside of a small cell and an institutional diet.

So, who is free and who is enslaved?

Simple, yes ?
Click to expand...

Very simple. Sounds to me like the idiot who refuses consent and is sent to prison is the one who is enslaved.
 
Agatha,

Thank you for asking about Council Tax and Car Insurance. I hope this is helpful.

COUNCIL TAX

The Act of Parliament that brought in Council Tax is NOT law. It (as perhaps you now realise) is a Statute.

And what that means is simple. It means that it needs YOUR CONSENT. If you give your consent you are liable to pay it.

Now, let me give you an example of its iniquity. Do they tell you, in advance, that they are actually CONTRACTING with you ? No, they just send you a bill. A bill for what, exactly ? Well, they never tell you. Because you (and I) have been conditioned to pay it. At no point are you told what you are paying for. It is not quantitified, itemised, costed, or even offered. What sort of deal is that ? And if you don't pay it you receive a summons. To THEIR PLACE OF BUSINESS. Where you will have to say why you have not paid it.

Well, what happens if you or I don't actually WANT these unquantified, unlisted services in the first place ? What then ? Well, simple. Just write and thank them for their offer but decline it. In writing.

CAR INSURANCE

Car insurance is more complex because you have probably registered your car with DVLA. But you may not be aware that when a car is registered it is no longer your own. It becomes the property of others. How else do you think that cars are sometimes crushed ? The DVLA is a revenue office of the Crown. And, once again, Car Insurance is only a Statute. It requires your CONSENT. Because it's not law. Its a commercial Statute. Which requires, as said, your consent.

Does that sound fair and reasonable ? Well, it should do. It's the Common Law of England. The rest is corporate commercial law. Foisted on you as 'law' but, in fact, no law at all.

Regards
 
Especially said:
Car Insurance is only a Statute. It requires your CONSENT. Because it's not law. Its a commercial Statute. Which requires, as said, your consent.

Does that sound fair and reasonable ? Well, it should do. It's the Common Law of England. The rest is corporate commercial law. Foisted on you as 'law' but, in fact, no law at all.
Click to expand...

So if I acidentally crashed into you,would I be right to presume that you would get the DVLA to pay to the damage to "thier" car? You could claim of my insurance,but im not sure if i consent to paying for damage to your car.:rolleyes:
 
Especially said:
I don't know what is !
Click to expand...

Never a truer word spoken!

Statutes require your CONSENT.
Click to expand...

Yes, yes they do. You provide them with consent by continuing to live within the borders of the country that passed those statutes.

In order to withdraw consent to be governed by said statutes, you have to leave the country. (and then move to a country that has statutes you can agree to abide by)

I have a question for you.

How many of the founders of the Freeman movement are currently imprisoned?

and as a follow up, how many followers of Freeman philosophy are currently imprisoned, or have had property confiscated as a result of following said philosophy?

oh and for a bonus point question how many Freeman advocates have been victorious within the courts of England and not had to pay car tax/get a driving licence/pay council tax/income tax/ etc.
 
joe911 said:
Ok,so you're telling me that judges do not know thier job? On thier first day they are all given the mason handguide and told that although they may have an enthusiasm for justice,they really are just tools of "THE CORPORATION" and will spend the rest of thier lives making profits for "da man". Someone earlier has allready explained to you what a corporation is,and why you are wrong about thier use in this context.



I dont need you to explain anything to me,becase the entire FOTL movement has had nothing but fail after fail after fail. I will be a good law abiding citizen and pay my taxes,One of my best friends is a lawyer,how is a FOTL supposed to argue thier case in court when lawyers dont even agree with thier woo?

Also,you say you do not want thier services,so am i right in presuming that if you were to collapse now we arent to call an ambulance for you,because it is a service that you do not want?
Click to expand...


You will be a compliant corporate client of the commercial takeover of our nation. Fine. But do not confuse others. Pay what you like. Why ! They can even send you council tax bill with no goods and services listed. And you pay it without question. They love suckers and you are just another one.

Sorry, but our courts are courts of commercial law. Get back your own control. Choose the law of England. It's so simple that even a judge of one of those courts can see it. Tell him you want the case tried under the Common Law of England and he will look at his watch and cough.

Because it's all a giant scam and NOT law.

Tell that to your lawyer friend and then post here his reply. It will be interesting to see what your 'learned' friend says. Just for the record.
 
Especially said:
Well, what happens if you or I don't actually WANT these unquantified, unlisted services in the first place ? What then ? Well, simple. Just write and thank them for their offer but decline it. In writing.
Click to expand...

And then what happens?

Will they simply accept that thank-you note? Or will you be subject to further harassment?

From this site:
[Y]our council can ask the Magistrates’ Court for a ‘Liability Order’ (a demand for you to pay the full amount you owe, plus costs).

[...]

If the court makes a Liability Order against you, your council can take enforcement action against you in order to recover the debt. This will usually mean either deductions from wages and benefits or the use of bailiffs, although bankruptcy and charging orders are other options.

Your council can order your employer to deduct a regular amount from your wages toward your unpaid Council Tax. If this causes you financial hardship, you can ask your council if they're willing to accept smaller payments.

Your council may be able to apply for deductions if you are receiving Jobseekers’ Allowance, Income Support or Pension Credit.

Your council can send bailiffs to your home to seize property to sell. The money raised goes towards paying your debt, plus costs. The billing authority must send a letter two weeks before the bailiff’s first visit stating how much money you owe under the Liability Order.

You can contact the Council and the bailiffs and offer to come to an agreement on payments. It’s important to do this straight away, because if the bailiffs make a visit their costs could be added to your bill.

If your council has tried using bailiffs but your Council Tax still isn’t paid in full, they may apply to the Magistate’s Court for a warrant committing you to prison.
Click to expand...

This isn't hypothetical. Real people have gone to real prisons for this.
 
Ambrosia said:
Never a truer word spoken!



Yes, yes they do. You provide them with consent by continuing to live within the borders of the country that passed those statutes.

In order to withdraw consent to be governed by said statutes, you have to leave the country. (and then move to a country that has statutes you can agree to abide by)

I have a question for you.

How many of the founders of the Freeman movement are currently imprisoned?

and as a follow up, how many followers of Freeman philosophy are currently imprisoned, or have had property confiscated as a result of following said philosophy?

oh and for a bonus point question how many Freeman advocates have been victorious within the courts of England and not had to pay car tax/get a driving licence/pay council tax/income tax/ etc.
Click to expand...

Ambrosia,

No, you do NOT provide people consent to make contracts with you by living in the country. You provide consent to people to make contracts with you ONLY by CONSENTING to their commercial offers. Simple, yes ?

And what happens if I don't want their commercial offers ? Am I entitled to decline them ? Of course I am. All statutes must have my consent. I have the right to accept or reject any offer under commercial law. Right ? Or will you jail someone for not consenting to them ?

IS THAT FAIR AND REASONABLE OR NOT ?

Finally, in answer to your question, I know nobody who is a freeman now in prison. But there are tens of thousands like you who are.

Is that a fair remark ?

How this helps.

Life is choice. And if you haven't got choice your either a slave or are not alive in the first place.

Regards
 
Last edited:
Especially said:
Agatha,

Thank you for asking about Council Tax and Car Insurance. I hope this is helpful.

COUNCIL TAX

The Act of Parliament that brought in Council Tax is NOT law. It (as perhaps you now realise) is a Statute.

And what that means is simple. It means that it needs YOUR CONSENT. If you give your consent you are liable to pay it.

Now, let me give you an example of its iniquity. Do they tell you, in advance, that they are actually CONTRACTING with you ? No, they just send you a bill. A bill for what, exactly ? Well, they never tell you. Because you (and I) have been conditioned to pay it. At no point are you told what you are paying for. It is not quantitified, itemised, costed, or even offered. What sort of deal is that ? And if you don't pay it you receive a summons. To THEIR PLACE OF BUSINESS. Where you will have to say why you have not paid it.

Well, what happens if you or I don't actually WANT these unquantified, unlisted services in the first place ? What then ? Well, simple. Just write and thank them for their offer but decline it. In writing.

CAR INSURANCE

Car insurance is more complex because you have probably registered your car with DVLA. But you may not be aware that when a car is registered it is no longer your own. It becomes the property of others. How else do you think that cars are sometimes crushed ? The DVLA is a revenue office of the Crown. And, once again, Car Insurance is only a Statute. It requires your CONSENT. Because it's not law. Its a commercial Statute. Which requires, as said, your consent.

Does that sound fair and reasonable ? Well, it should do. It's the Common Law of England. The rest is corporate commercial law. Foisted on you as 'law' but, in fact, no law at all.

Regards
Click to expand...

I hate to burst your bubble, but no, that doesn't sound reasonable to me.

Council tax - your council sends you a leaflet along with the bill outlining what services they will be providing for the money. I don't know about your council but in both Sheffield and Chesterfield, the budget is outlined in the leaflet. So your contention that you don't know what you are paying for is quite simply wrong. You can also get more information from the council if the leaflet isn't comprehensive enough.

Imagine for a moment that you decline their services. How do you live in an area and not use any of the services? What do you do with your garbage? What do you walk on if not the council-maintained roads, pavements, verges and green spaces? If your house catches alight, who do you call? If you get burgled, who do you call? Where are your children educated? Who do you call if you have nuisance neighbours? And so on.

Personally, I do consent to paying my council tax. I use the services. I'm even happy to pay for some services that I may never need, because I live in a society where some people do need those services.

Car insurance - your explanation is somewhat circular and I am not at all clear whether you feel car insurance should be required or optional. As my exhusband and children were hit by an uninsured driver a few years ago, I feel very strongly that insurance should remain mandatory. If you don't want to pay it, don't drive a car. Simples, as the meercat says.
 
And now you are twice as washed up as when you started, right ? You know better, right ?
Click to expand...
Yes, I do....Just take a good long look at people who have actually tried to do this in the past. They almost always end up in jail for fraud if they take it too far. Especially when you start challenging police jurisdiction, enacting bogus fee schedules and using contempt of court as your defense.

Please share with us, here on the forum, what you personally discovered about the freeman movement and what convinced you here that it is untrue. So untrue you are still in the same system.
Click to expand...
Part of it was learning a bit more about how common law actually applies and why it isn't our mainstream method of law anymore...

Do you realize that under common law people could own slaves if a judge permitted it? They could get away with nearly any atrocity based on certain weird loopholes in the system...which is exactly why it isn't used as often.


Looking forward to your reply. It will be great to have it. It will be extremely interesting, in fact. Then we can all see for ourselves what is really true and what is false. Let's keep it real simple so everyone can hear your point of view. And I will reply to what you write.
Click to expand...

Because outside of the likes of people like Jordan Maxwell and (as good natured as he is) Robert Menard you will find that there is no actual evidence to support their claims.

1) Capitus Dimutia Maxima (NAME IN ALL CAPS) does not apply to your status as a citizen, as you may think it does.

2) Your Birth Certificate is not a tradable commodity on the stock market

3) The Income tax is completely legitimate and constitutional (granted it's a complicated mess, but so is any attempt at running a truly free society)

4) Gold Fringe on the flag has nothing to do with putting us under Admiralty Law and you will find little to no evidence outside of Montana that supports this goofy idea.

5) Freemen have been engaged in some pretty ugly stand-off with police in several cases

6) The Common Law Right to Travel does not excuse you from needing a license to drive (as it is also a safety concern)

7) You're consent is automatically given when you maintain your citizenship in that country. If you try to denounce your citizenship, you can't stay in the country.

8) Most people who try this stuff have ended up in serious trouble and usually end up in prison for fraud...

Like Jordan Maxwell for instance...He's been busted for selling phony documents and committing serious fraud...

So you might want to look into whoever it is your getting this crap from.

Granted the Freeman Concept has it's heart in the right place, but it has it's head where the sun don't shine.

sincerly,
Sunray: BREAKER
 
Mojo said:
Where in the Constitution of England does it say that?
Click to expand...

It says so in the Act of Settlement and in the Bill of Rights.

Treason and treachery are committed if a foreign power is negotiated with outside of Parliament on matters of national sovereignty. And the EU is a foreign power nobody voted for. As you perfectly well know.

Regards
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom