Is Anorexia really a disease?

Excellent point. Many years ago, I reached a point in my life where I had been arrested for DUI, had my wife divorce me over my drinking, and I was having major health issues including liver problems. I had every reason in the world to stop drinking, but I couldn't.

In regards to the O.P., from my personal experience, I believe anorexia, like alcoholism, is indeed a disease. However, my belief that alcoholism is a disease in no way meant that I did not assume full responsibility for my actions.

I started drinking knowing full well that others in my family were alchoholics. I knew the risks, I knew of my own pre-dispositions, and chose to drink anyway. I was responsible for the DUI, as well as the divorce and health issues. But, once I was in the nightmare of being addicted to alcohol, my ability to control the drinking was non-existent. I always took full responsibility for my actions, and I knew that I was on a path to self destruction that was of my making, but there came a point where the booze absolutely owned me. I no longer had any choice as to whether I drank or not.

I believe many people with anorexia have the same experience. They start something they know is a risky behavior, they believe they can control it, and before they know it, it takes over their lives. I believe anorexia and alcohol addiction are both diseases, but I also believe that a person can have one of these diseases and at the same time admit that they bear the responsibility for getting themselves into the situation that lead to the disease. It does not have to be exclusively one, or the other.

L

Interesting post. The problem for many onlookers to situations like this seems to lie with the word "couldn't". To those who do not have specific problem "X", it can seem like "couldn't" is a cop-out for "didn't" or "chose not to".
Interestingly, it seems to crop up with alcohol more than tobacco;
I've often heard smokers say they could quit if they wanted to, but they don't want to. I don't believe I ever heard a heavy drinker say that.

Maybe this is because a smoker remains clear headed, even on his fortieth tab of the day, whereas the drunk is mentally buzzed after the first drink of the day and his judgement (to stop) is impaired. Some aspects of addiction may be common to all drugs, but the mechanisms may differ substantially too.
I wonder if there's anything about the effect of starvation on the brain that actually makes it harder to want to eat?
 
And there are skeptical psychologists who argue that the thing called "schizophrenia" doesn't even exist really:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia#Controversies_and_research_directions

Not really, that is your interpretation of that wiki article, it does not say that schizophrenia doesn't exist.

From the wiki:

argued for a rejection of the diagnosis of schizophrenia based on its heterogeneity and associated stigma, and called for the adoption of a bio-psychosocial model
Um, there is a lot of heterogeneity in the diagnosis of schizophrenia, and...
The stigma is something to fight...
The biopsychosocial model is the model I wa strained in in 1990...
As with other psychiatric disorders, some psychiatrists have suggested that the diagnosis would be better addressed as individual dimensions along which everyone varies, such that there is a spectrum or continuum rather than a cut-off between normal and ill.

The issue is functioning in areas of life, if you function, no diagnosis, if you don't...
The cure for stigma is not changing the name...
approach appears consistent with research on schizotypy, and with a relatively high prevalence of psychotic experiences, mostly non-distressing delusional beliefs, among the general public
And as in the past, what about the prevalence of distressing delusions in people with the label of schizophrenia, hmmm...
This has nothing to do with the validity of the label.
surveying the existing literature on delusions, pointed out that the consistency and completeness of the definition of delusion have been found wanting by many; delusions are neither necessarily fixed, nor false, nor involve the presence of incontrovertible evidence
And that means that delusions can be fluid, involve real events...
Or that some people are using sloppy methodology.
She argues that overemphasis on psychosis in the diagnostic criteria, while improving diagnostic reliability, ignores more fundamental cognitive impairments that are harder to assess due to large variations in presentation.
And so... negative symptoms and cognitive distortions are what they are, hard to assess.


You know what JJM, this does not say what you said at all.
 
I have an obsessive-compulsory disorder.
I must read this thread.
I must answer to every post.
I must... I must... I must...

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrggggggggggggggg
 
I think it might be a question of vocabulary. Around where I am OCB / schizophrenia and anorexia are considered disorder (mental one), and medically this enter the broad spectrum of disease.

The non-medical popular term for disease is more like what is infections, cancerous, or organ which do not function properly. In that popular meaning, mental disorder are actually not disease.

So to the OP, medically your friend is right, it is a disease. You are only using the more restrictive term.
 
There is also a concern - valid in my opinion- that the pharmaceutical lobby has a vested interest in the redefinition of "eccentric" behaviour as a "disorder", whereby existing drugs which suppress such behaviour can be prescribed to "treat" it.
The list of persons contributing to the DSM who have (or have at some later time acquired) financial connections to drug companies is longer than makes some interested laymen comfortable.

Now while I agree the marketing of the drug industry does have an impact on the culture in a society, I question what the impact is on the DSM, many if not most of the diagnostic categories have remained stable DSM II through DSM IV, it is not as though they just come up with new ones all the time.

And in fact the tentative categories seem to be shrinking, in the Axis II area the potential PDs have decreased.

Now as for the rest, it all comes down to functioning, if you function in your enviroments of choice then fine.

Now in strict terms there is a spectrum, there are disorders that are strictly behavioral (most paraphilias), some that have mixed causes but behavioral pattersn (addictions) and those that have a larger biological component and a smaller behavioral component.

But the fact that lay people do not understand something does not mean it invalidates a concept.

The cure for addiction is not is labelling it as a 'disease' or 'illness' something not usually done by professionals, the change that is needed is making choices to avoid use, stop use and get help.

The biological vulnerability is a causative explanation not an excuse.

the helplessness of the addict is that :
If they choose to use they will keep using, that is what they are helpless in, stopping. They must admit they can not control their use.

They are not helpless to not use, they are helpless if they do use (or at least drowning in the shallow water).

The 'cure' avoid use, identify when you are going to use and avoid it, plan to avoid it, plan to stop if you do use, get help.
 
From my limited experience in working with people diagnosed with anorexia nervosa, I am not usre that some do not have perceptual distortions that are beyon their control.

It is a spectrum some people do not have as much of a perceptual distortion as others, but i do not think they can control the intrusive thopughts. I have vague memories of research into the distortions.

This is interesting but a small study, not the one I was looking for:
http://www.springerlink.com/content/c4f92nx39t6y6986/

this is more what i was looking for:
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/61004145/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0

Just as people with depression have perceptual distortions, there are snall indicative studies that suggest that there are perceptual distorions in the way people with anorexia categorise and think about body image.

I believe they are more than societal and cultural in influence.
 
But the fact that lay people do not understand something does not mean it invalidates a concept.

The cure for addiction is not is labelling it as a 'disease' or 'illness' something not usually done by professionals, the change that is needed is making choices to avoid use, stop use and get help.

The biological vulnerability is a causative explanation not an excuse.

the helplessness of the addict is that :
If they choose to use they will keep using, that is what they are helpless in, stopping. They must admit they can not control their use.

They are not helpless to not use, they are helpless if they do use (or at least drowning in the shallow water).

The 'cure' avoid use, identify when you are going to use and avoid it, plan to avoid it, plan to stop if you do use, get help.

This is something I completely agree with. To me, it sounds more reasonable when put this way. I am not a doctor nor do I work in the mental health profession but I have dealt with many friends who have done damaging behavior to themselves. It is incredibly frustrating to try to be there for someone who makes a lot of excuses for being clean one day and then turn to using again just because they had a bad day or some other ridiculous reason.

From what I have seen on this thread I understand a little more about schizophrenia than I previously did. I still don't see schizophrenia as a choice because it doesn't seem like something you can turn off. I have caught my friend watching a TV that wasn't even on. I know this is anecdotal evidence but, even so, this type of behavior appears to be completely different from what an alcoholic or an anorexic does. My friend knows that these episodes are delusions but she says that they are persistent. When I was drinking heavily I didn't even think about it much. I just hit the liquor store as soon as I got off work. I was in complete disregard for those around me who were affected by what I was doing. And it was still me consciously doing it. I could have stopped I just didn't care.

I think it might be a question of vocabulary. Around where I am OCB / schizophrenia and anorexia are considered disorder (mental one), and medically this enter the broad spectrum of disease.

The non-medical popular term for disease is infections, cancerous, or organ which do not function properly. In that popular meaning, mental disorder are actually not disease.

So to the OP, medically your friend is right, it is a disease. You are only using the more restrictive term.

This is great, now my friend and I have to agree to call it a draw. We were kinda hoping for a duel to the death complete with a full orchestra and sound effects. I wonder why the medical community doesn't have the more restrictive definition. It is ironic because it seems like it would be the other way around.

Either way, I still reserve the right to be a callous bastard.
 
Have doctors considered medical marijuana as a treatment option? It would at least give them an apetite...It's a start right?

I'm still finding it hard to see how alcoholism and anorexia can be considered diseases...I was under the impression that the evidence that suggests such things was still a bit inconclusive. I could be wrong and someone will likely tell me so. After all, that's kinda how this place works...

I love you guys by the way
 
I feel it's a mental/psychological disorder with roots based partly on societal norms of weight and partly on OCD and to a lesser extent, depression. I guess that's why they're given Prozac. Which often doesn't work for Any malady.
 
Have doctors considered medical marijuana as a treatment option? It would at least give them an apetite...It's a start right?

I'm still finding it hard to see how alcoholism and anorexia can be considered diseases...I was under the impression that the evidence that suggests such things was still a bit inconclusive. I could be wrong and someone will likely tell me so. After all, that's kinda how this place works...

I love you guys by the way

Apparently, some doctors (and people) consider is a disease just because it is harmful to you. But that doesn't make sense because that would make the definition too general. And even if someone is genetically predisposed to it doesn't give them an excuse in my opinion. Just because Daddy is a drunk doesn't mean that you can't help becoming a drunk. And just because Mommy calls you fat isn't an excuse to become anorexic. My parents said some ignorant and hateful things to me when I was a kid but I just came to the conclusion that they were fools. If someone resorts to damaging behavior because they got made fun of then I think its a self esteem issue.
 
I wonder: Do anorexics actually see themselves different in the mirror? Or do they see what they want to see?
 
I have a good reason to believe that schizophrenics cannot help but hear the voices. My friend even says that she understands that the voices are delusions but there are some instances where the voices become overwhelming. I just haven't seen enough evidence that shows that anorexia is as bad as schizophrenia. A lot of the things that have influenced my opinion on anorexia is the ridiculous excuses that I have heard people claim and, I admit, some of the ridiculous things I have heard on Dr. (I don't even know if he is a real doctor) Phil.

It is all still a choice though.
 
I used to drink like a fish til I crawled like a rat. I have been called an alcoholic even though I don't agree with AA's definition of an alcoholic. I did get myself to the point where I was normal again and I did it without AA or a 12-step program. It was a matter of just quitting,well, I never quit cold turkey but I did quit getting so drunk that I made a fool of myself. I realized that what I was doing was selfish and I had nobody to blame but myself. Forget genetics and all that BS. I think everyone is capable of becoming addicted to something if they lose their willpower. That is why I have my opinions about anorexia. I feel that it is similar. But because of this thread I do think that there may be some cases where someone is severely delusional to the point where they actually can't help it. But I still think that in a lot of cases people act this way to get attention.

Sounds like you would be classed as a problem drinker and not an alcoholic
 
Apparently, some doctors (and people) consider is a disease just because it is harmful to you. But that doesn't make sense because that would make the definition too general. And even if someone is genetically predisposed to it doesn't give them an excuse in my opinion. Just because Daddy is a drunk doesn't mean that you can't help becoming a drunk. And just because Mommy calls you fat isn't an excuse to become anorexic.
Usually the person with anorexia does the behaviors with no outside prompting. I has no heard the association between parental abuse and axorexia.
In fact much of anorexia nervose is very secretive.
My parents said some ignorant and hateful things to me when I was a kid but I just came to the conclusion that they were fools. If someone resorts to damaging behavior because they got made fun of then I think its a self esteem issue.


Well. the pychogenic theories are out there, but abuse that is extreme will cause ATSD or PTSD, i had not heard of it as a cause of anorexia nervosa. Usually they have a perceptual disorder about weight. I had not heard it was a hang up about parents.
 
Ah, I found the experiment I mentioned earlier, in which people subjected to semi-starvation began to exhibit psychological problems (including one guy who chopped off his fingers).

Among the many conclusions from the study was the confirmation that prolonged semi-starvation produces significant increases in depression, hysteria and hypochondriasis as measured using the Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory (MMPI), a standardized test administered during the experimental period. Indeed, most of the subjects experienced periods of severe emotional distress and depression. There were extreme reactions to the psychological effects during the experiment including self-mutilation (one subject amputated three fingers of his hand with an axe, though the subject was unsure if he had done so intentionally or accidentally). Participants exhibited a preoccupation with food, both during the starvation period and the rehabilitation phase. Sexual interest was drastically reduced and the volunteers showed signs of social withdrawal and isolation. The participants reported a decline in concentration, comprehension and judgment capabilities, although the standardized tests administered showed no actual signs of diminished capacity. There were marked declines in physiological processes indicative of decreases in each subject’s basal metabolic rate (the energy required by the body in a state of rest) and reflected in reduced body temperature, respiration and heart rate. Some of the subjects exhibited edema (swelling) in the extremities, presumably due to the massive quantities of water the participants consumed attempting to fill their stomachs during the starvation period.

...

One of the crucial observations of the Minnesota Starvation Experiment discussed by a number of researchers in the nutritional sciences — including Ancel Keys — is that the physical effects of the induced semi-starvation during the study well approximates the conditions experienced by patients afflicted with a range of eating disorders such as anorexia nervosa and bulimia nervosa. Indeed, it has been postulated that many of the profound social and psychological effects of these disorders may actually result from symptoms of undernutrition and that recovery depends critically upon physical renourishment as well as psychological treatment.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Starvation_Experiment

The reason I got interested in this was because I always thought anorexia would be one illness I would never be vulnerable to - I thought I loved food too much! But after having suffered prolonged periods of depression, with the accompanying lack of appetite and very quick weight loss, I did find that I started to suffer some of the symptoms of anorexia - feeling it was important to skip meals and not gain the weight back, even though I knew this was totally irrational. Luckily, I recovered from the depression before this behaviour could become too entrenched, but I can now see how easy it would be to fall into anorexia before you realised what was happening.
 
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I wasn't aware that people with leukaemia, diabetes, asthma and pneumonia were capable of stopping their suffering at any given moment...

Regardless of what the experts say about anorexia or alcoholism I have to disagree with the way they treat these issues...In a world where nearly every woman complains about looking fat (when they know damn well they are not) It doesn't at all suprize me the bizarre lengths at which they'd go to to get that way. If you ask me, it's a societal issue and not a health one. If anorexia is a disease, what then is the physical cause?

Again do we need to stop cutting autistics slack because we don't know the physical cause? What about schizophrenia?
Could not also be said that women who stretch their necks, modify their bodies, pierce and tattoo, crush their own feet, also have a disease? It really is the same sort of psychological process (I could be wrong), but because it's socially acceptable to a certain point, it's not considered a disease?

Depends, some of the could well.
The same argument could likely be made when comparing a fast-rising, media based, infotainment age and it's connections with ADHD.

ADHD is so 10 years ago, it is autism now baby.
Sorry, but I have to agree with the OP. I've been skeptical of psychology regarding some of it's findings. Most of which I must admit are valid and have a lot of evidence to support it. But as far as how it handles severe depression, anorexia, bolemia, cutting, bi polar disorder, ADD, etc it seems to have a bad track record.

So what is the alternative? A good slap in the face and yelling "Change!"? They tried that.
 
I wonder: Do anorexics actually see themselves different in the mirror? Or do they see what they want to see?

That is a good question, the two studies I linked to show that when choosing an image of how they appear they choose a larger image than they are. Now do they actually see themselves as that size is another question.

The strange thing is that the body distortion is usually about a specific portion of the body, very obsessive.
 
Now do they actually see themselves as that size is another question.

If they do, then it should be considered a Innate Genetic disorder. Until then, we must assume it is all in the individuals mind's, and it needs to stop
 

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