Merged Skeptics vs. Knowers/Believers

[GeeMack]

This is inaccurate...

I KNOW I saw a "something" that I can barely describe, don't fully understand, and can't begin to explain

And again, exactly what steps have you taken to eliminate the possibility of hallucinations or mental illness?

 

[RoboTimbo]

I 'might' have been in error, I 'might' have been the subject of a huge, as of yet unclaimed hoax. However, I find these unlikely, or improbable.

Indeed plans CAN appear to turn 'rather' sharply. But I've NEVER seen ANYTHING make a right angle turn at these speeds. And then two of them combining to make a HUGE version of themselves... What I witness, with a companion, defied physics as I understood them.

...and this is not what I want this thread to be about.

If it were something that would be impossible according to physics, then it didn't happen.

 

[King of the Americas]

lost your balls again, everyone knows the only reason you arent claiming ET is because you think its more credible to claim something else

you got that wrong like most other things

I have formulated this stance because this is where the evidence led me.

Is it 'wrong' to move your support to more credible arguments?

 

[King of the Americas]

If it were something that would be impossible according to physics, then it didn't happen.

OR, I don't 'understand' the physics at work.

Human flight was at one time considered impossible, but that doesn't mean the Wright Brothers didn't manage the feat.

 

[King of the Americas]

And again, exactly what steps have you taken to eliminate the possibility of hallucinations or mental illness?

Having never suffered either, nor my fellow witness, atop that we both saw the same thing... I find that we both had the same hallucination, at the time we both suffered our first psychotic break, again "unlikely".

 

[RoboTimbo]

OR, I don't 'understand' the physics at work.

Good, that's what I wanted you to understand.

 

[King of the Americas]

Also, anyone claiming humans are at the top of the "evolutionary ladder", or even saying that there is such a thing as an evolutionary ladder, does not have much experience with how evolution works. It's not like it's a linear straight line.

Alright, forgive my ignorance...

Are we on the same rung of the evolutionary ladder as an ameba, a snail, a dog, a chimp?

I'd say "No." I'd say that 'we' have evolved to a higher state of mental awareness and physical ability.

What I saw was better/more capable than us...

 

[GeeMack]

And again, exactly what steps have you taken to eliminate the possibility of hallucinations or mental illness?

Having never suffered either, nor my fellow witness, atop that we both saw the same thing... I find that we both had the same hallucination, at the time we both suffered our first psychotic break, again "unlikely".

Okay, so you haven't taken any steps to eliminate the possibility of hallucinations or mental illness. Got it.

 

[King of the Americas]

Your request is illogical. The moment someone answers your question they are no longer fence sitters, no matter which way they lean.

Oh, and you can't argue something false to be true, no matter how many rhetorical "points" you believe yourself to score. That approach to discourse is flawed at best, and childish at worst.

You made a clumsy attempt att poisoning the well, but unfortunately used a brand of poison that is fluorescent green and comes with a health and safety warning in neon.

The purpose of this thread was not to taint any well.

I just wanted to know how someone undecided views these arguments and their validity.

 

[King of the Americas]

Okay, so you haven't taken any steps to eliminate the possibility of hallucinations or mental illness. Got it.

Are you suggesting I should have gotten a cat scan, and that because I didn't, that I SHOULD consider the event me AND my buddy witnessed was a figment of our imagination?

Neither of us have had any mental health issues before or after this event.

It would be silly to apply this as the cause of the sights we witnessed.

 

[Hokulele]

Are we on the same rung of the evolutionary ladder as an ameba, a snail, a dog, a chimp?

Yes.

I'd say "No." I'd say that 'we' have evolved to a higher state of mental awareness and physical ability.

Can you reproduce by fission as an amoeba? Can you be both male and female to increase your chances of reproductive success as a snail? Is your sense of smell as good as a dog? Are you as strong as a chimpanzee?

"Higher" is completely subjective, and evolution is all about creatures that survive particular environments, not making a so-called best creature possible.

 

[GeeMack]

Are you suggesting I should have gotten a cat scan, and that because I didn't, that I SHOULD consider the event me AND my buddy witnessed was a figment of our imagination?

Neither of us have had any mental health issues before or after this event.

It would be silly to apply this as the cause of the sights we witnessed.

I'm suggesting that since the beginning of time, millions of people have seen hallucinations or believed they've seen things that weren't really there, and they were just as convinced as you are that what they saw was something real. In the cases where the specific causes of their visions were eventually determined, millions of times it's been due to hallucinations from drugs, illness, environmental toxins, etc. Millions of times it's been due to varying types and styles of mental illnesses.

So, just for the record: In all of human history, of all the times any of those millions of people have seen seemingly unexplainable things, of the times when eventually a valid explanation was determined, how many of those times did the explanation turn out to be aliens from space or evolutionarily advanced, non human creatures from Earth flying around in some sort of craft? Answer in real numbers or percentages of incidents please.

And it would be silly to apply what as the cause of the sights you witnessed?

 

[GeeMack]

Alright, forgive my ignorance...

Are we on the same rung of the evolutionary ladder as an ameba, a snail, a dog, a chimp?

I'd say "No." I'd say that 'we' have evolved to a higher state of mental awareness and physical ability.

What I saw was better/more capable than us...

How would you do at living underwater for your entire life and eating nothing but microscopic bits of organic matter by means of phagocytosis? Can you exude slime through your skin and use it as an adhesive to climb vertical surfaces or as a protectant to avoid getting sliced to bits if you should belly crawl across broken glass? And you think you've evolved to a much higher state of physical ability than an amoeba or a snail?

Can you reproduce by fission as an amoeba? Can you be both male and female to increase your chances of reproductive success as a snail? Is your sense of smell as good as a dog? Are you as strong as a chimpanzee?

"Higher" is completely subjective, and evolution is all about creatures that survive particular environments, not making a so-called best creature possible.

Thanks, Hokulele. You got in ahead of me.

 

[Marduk]

and they weren't only located in one area in the sky, ...

how many areas of sky ?
and how far apart
and at what angles from the viewpoint
and at what distance ?

 

[Hokulele]

Thanks, Hokulele. You got in ahead of me.

Your snail facts are better than mine.

I just get annoyed when people try to use the "evolutionary ladder" nonsense.

 

[King of the Americas]

how many areas of sky ?
and how far apart
and at what angles from the viewpoint
and at what distance ?

THIS is not the place for this.

Resurrect the thread. I've discussed all this at length.

---

 

[King of the Americas]

How would you do at living underwater for your entire life and eating nothing but microscopic bits of organic matter by means of phagocytosis? Can you exude slime through your skin and use it as an adhesive to climb vertical surfaces or as a protectant to avoid getting sliced to bits if you should belly crawl across broken glass? And you think you've evolved to a much higher state of physical ability than an amoeba or a snail?




Thanks, Hokulele. You got in ahead of me.

My superior intellect, and dextrous hands and fingers would allow me to create an underwater habitat that is only fueled by plankton and the Sun...if the need were to arise.

None but humans can escape Earth. That's more evolved.

 

[King of the Americas]

I'm suggesting that since the beginning of time, millions of people have seen hallucinations or believed they've seen things that weren't really there, and they were just as convinced as you are that what they saw was something real. In the cases where the specific causes of their visions were eventually determined, millions of times it's been due to hallucinations from drugs, illness, environmental toxins, etc. Millions of times it's been due to varying types and styles of mental illnesses.

So, just for the record: In all of human history, of all the times any of those millions of people have seen seemingly unexplainable things, of the times when eventually a valid explanation was determined, how many of those times did the explanation turn out to be aliens from space or evolutionarily advanced, non human creatures from Earth flying around in some sort of craft? Answer in real numbers or percentages of incidents please.

And it would be silly to apply what as the cause of the sights you witnessed?

As many times as the words "god exists" has been written by the hand of man.

 

[Burning Beard]

And how would this explanation work to describe the two combining?

How can you be so sure they "combined"? From your viewpoint, they could easily have been different distances from you. Like a star constellation - from our view they appear side-by-side, yet the distance from earth can vary by many light years. From the front, the "craft" you saw could have appeared to be combined, but were actually following each other, so from the front they appear combined.

I think arthwollipot was right on the money with his explanation.

 

[King of the Americas]

How can you be so sure they "combined"? From your viewpoint, they could easily have been different distances from you. Like a star constellation - from our view they appear side-by-side, yet the distance from earth can vary by many light years. From the front, the "craft" you saw could have appeared to be combined, but were actually following each other, so from the front they appear combined.

I think arthwollipot was right on the money with his explanation.

Alright, so what 'could' have happened is that two planes flew toward each other, and at the last possible moment pulled away from each other and headed right toward me with their landing lights on (causing the light to brighten drastically), and then pull back toward point or origin...

I guess one stunt pilot demo is as likely as another.