Merged Skeptics vs. Knowers/Believers

[King of the Americas]

Also, what did they do after the "assembly"???

IT held its position, then split back apart into the individual components.

 

[Marduk]

ok I heard enough now,if you go back through your descriptions of what you allegedly saw you might notice how it has got more and more ridiculous with each retelling, so I'm going to have to go with self delusion on this one, you have already more than demonstrated this ability with previous posts

you started off claiming that ufos were non human craft, then when that got you zero converts to your cause you claimed to have had a sighting yourself. Next no doubt you will recall an abduction scenario, complete with green alien women who want to know more about this earth thing called "kissing".
you are wasting everyones time with this obvious trolling when what you are describing is actually a scene from the X files epsidode "deep throat". what is it with you nuts that none of you have your own original thoughts

 

[King of the Americas]

ok I heard enough now,if you go back through your descriptions of what you allegedly saw you might notice how it has got more and more ridiculous with each retelling, so I'm going to have to go with self delusion on this one, you have already more than demonstrated this ability with previous posts

you started off claiming that ufos were non human craft, then when that got you zero converts to your cause you claimed to have had a sighting yourself. Next no doubt you will recall an abduction scenario, complete with green alien women who want to know more about this earth thing called "kissing".
you are wasting everyones time with this obvious trolling when what you are describing is actually a scene from the X files epsidode "deep throat". what is it with you nuts that none of you have your own original thoughts

This is EXACTLY why I suggested you resurrect my other threads upon that event.

You've followed the skeptic walk step for step...

When someone provides testimony you can't or don't have a common explanation for, call them delusional.

You are a sad little skeptic.

 

[Marduk]

This is EXACTLY why I suggested you resurrect my other threads upon that event.

You've followed the skeptic walk step for step...

When someone provides testimony you can't or don't have a common explanation for, call them delusional.

You are a sad little skeptic.

oh right, so I call you delusional based on the facts and you say the same thing as a means of defense, like most of your other rhetoric thats not even credible
you have seen the x files episode I'm talking about havent you, the bit where Mulder observes two ufos doing impossible manoeuveres over a secret US airforce base,

go on, pretend you havent
LMFAO

 

[GeeMack]

This is EXACTLY why I suggested you resurrect my other threads upon that event.

You've followed the skeptic walk step for step...

When someone provides testimony you can't or don't have a common explanation for, call them delusional.

You are a sad little skeptic.

The possibility that your "sighting" is the result of a delusion is, historically, far more likely than the possibility that you actually saw some kind of unknown craft being piloted by an advanced race of Earthlings. The considerations that your experience was caused by a hallucination, an illness, a mistake, and yes, maybe even a delusion, those are the common explanations.

 

[King of the Americas]

The possibility that your "sighting" is the result of a delusion is, historically, far more likely than the possibility that you actually saw some kind of unknown craft being piloted by an advanced race of Earthlings. The considerations that your experience was caused by a hallucination, an illness, a mistake, and yes, maybe even a delusion, those are the common explanations.

But "2" people suffering the very same delusion/psychotic break or hallucination...?

Then again, it not just the 2 of us, but EVERY report ever made of "gods up there".

We are ALL delusional...?

---

This is where the skeptic fails.

"You are delusional, even though there's no history of mental illness..." That's weak.

 

[King of the Americas]

oh right, so I call you delusional based on the facts and you say the same thing as a means of defense, like most of your other rhetoric thats not even credible
you have seen the x files episode I'm talking about havent you, the bit where Mulder observes two ufos doing impossible manoeuveres over a secret US airforce base,

go on, pretend you havent
LMFAO

I saw part of the movie, but never watched the TV show.

But I DO know the "Quantum Leap" intro by heart..."and so Dr. Beckett stepped into the Quantum Leap Accelerator, and vanished. He awoke to find himself trapped in the past, facing a mirror image that was not his own, and driver by an unknown force to change history for the better. His only guide..." (I could go on)

 

[Marduk]

I saw part of the movie, but never watched the TV show.

But I DO know the "Quantum Leap" intro by heart..."and so Dr. Beckett stepped into the Quantum Leap Accelerator, and vanished. He awoke to find himself trapped in the past, facing a mirror image that was not his own, and driver by an unknown force to change history for the better. His only guide..." (I could go on)

nice attempt at a diversion, but utter fail I'm afraid, now lets get back to your claim that you never saw the second ever x files episode

what a lie, youre expecting us to believe that with your belief in ufos that you never watched the TV show that did the most to champion them in the history of the world

so heres what I think
I think you made the whole thing up, that you never saw anything in the sky at all, that no one else saw it either, that youre doing this in some misguided attempt to prove your point

now do you have any evidence to prove my belief that you are lying wrong ?
because if you don't it amounts to the same thing doesn't it,
anecdotal evidence from an untrustworthy source

 

[Marduk]

But "2" people suffering the very same delusion/psychotic break or hallucination...?

Then again, it not just the 2 of us, but EVERY report ever made of "gods up there".

We are ALL delusional...?

---

This is where the skeptic fails.

"You are delusional, even though there's no history of mental illness..." That's weak.

nope, this is just where you fail, and you have been unable to present any evidence at all to support your contention, vs masses that prove it fallacious, you still believe for instance that when YHWH is described as apearing as a cloud it means "alien" when in fact all it means is that hes a deity derived with elements of the god Baal Hadad who was previously to his invention the chief god of canaan. Baal also makes thunder and rain and causes flash floods and storms, but I expect you think that some weird atmospheric affect caused by an anti matter engine
if you think the sceptics at this forum are failing then you truly are delusional
get some help before its too late

 

[King of the Americas]

nice attempt at a diversion, but utter fail I'm afraid, now lets get back to your claim that you never saw the second ever x files episode

what a lie, youre expecting us to believe that with your belief in ufos that you never watched the TV show that did the most to champion them in the history of the world

so heres what I think
I think you made the whole thing up, that you never saw anything in the sky at all, that no one else saw it either, that youre doing this in some misguided attempt to prove your point

now do you have any evidence to prove my belief that you are lying wrong ?
because if you don't it amounts to the same thing doesn't it,
anecdotal evidence from an untrustworthy source

When did the show air? Let's have some time frames.

I'm not entirely sure, but I think my sighting post 'may' have been the first thing I posted here back in '01... I used to be ALL about "we're not alone, let's throw a world peace concert and invite them down."

My experience was real, the details I have provided you here are from my memory of the event described, and most certainly not from any TV show.

---

"...on this journey is 'Al', an observer from his own time, who appears in the form of a hologram that only 'Sam' can see and hear. So, Dr. Beckett finds himself leaping from life to life, striving to put right what once went wrong, and hoping...that each leap will be the leap Home."

I got into "Enterprise", just because Scott Bacula was the Captain.

Wasn't "X Files" on the SyFy (previously SciFi) Channel? Well I've never even had anything but basic cable. My local cable company only recently added this channel as a part of the lower tier package.

---

How is it okay in a rational debate to call someone a liar and delusional?

 

[Fishstick]

How is it okay in a rational debate to call someone a liar and delusional?

The considerations that your experience was caused by a hallucination, an illness, a mistake, and yes, maybe even a delusion, those are the common explanations.

Please point out where he called you delusional.
Pointing out that your experience may be caused by a mistake, hallucination or delusion does not immediately imply you are a delusional liar.

 

[King of the Americas]

nope, this is just where you fail, and you have been unable to present any evidence at all to support your contention, vs masses that prove it fallacious, you still believe for instance that when YHWH is described as apearing as a cloud it means "alien" when in fact all it means is that hes a deity derived with elements of the god Baal Hadad who was previously to his invention the chief god of canaan. Baal also makes thunder and rain and causes flash floods and storms, but I expect you think that some weird atmospheric affect caused by an anti matter engine
if you think the sceptics at this forum are failing then you truly are delusional
get some help before its too late

STILL ignoring the fact that 'I' never said "alien"...

And again, this ISN'T about me and my personal experience, it is about the complete body of accounts, both known and unknown that say or feature "pointing to the sky and or saying god exists."

This has ALWAYS been the case, it is STILL the case today.

People have seen things in the skies, that ISN'T 'us', and they've further characterized these things as being 'better/more capable'...some have even gone full bore and even worshipped them as "God". I would not go so far.

I have seen such things. I was not alone when it happened.

I was under hospital care for almost 3 months while I rehabbed through a spinal cord injury. Never was I diagnosed with any mental disorder or head trauma.

Your attacks are a pathetic skeptic's last resort.

 

[King of the Americas]

Please point out where he called you delusional.
Pointing out that your experience may be caused by a mistake, hallucination or delusion does not immediately imply you are a delusional liar.

Are we reading the same thread?

He said I got it from a TV show... And I'm certain he's used the word "delusional".

It does matter, because there's no evidence to be had, that would 'lead' one to conclude "delusion or hallucination".

So that leaves "mistakes"...

What could I be 'mistaking' here? A mistake is inappropriately labeling something. I plainly state I don't know what it/they were exactly, but rather I said I know what it wasn't. I'll concede that I could be mistaken, if you can show me a human craft perform the feats I described.

 

[Cuddles]

We are ALL delusional...?

Yes. Before you argue with that, try looking up what that word actually means.

"You are delusional, even though there's no history of mental illness..." That's weak.

Firstly, mental illness is known to exist. Even without having a personal history of mental illness, that makes it a far more likely explanation than some nonsense for which there is not only no evidence, but no way it could possibly be true.

Secondly, you used to believe that the world would end in the year 2000 so strongly that you actually went around street evangelising. Despite the rather obvious evidence that your previous belief was complete bollocks and that the things you base your new claims on are simply not true, you now firmly believe that the world will end in 2012. I'd say delusional beliefs combined with the total inability to learn anything at all from past experience is a pretty good indicator that all may not be quite right in the brain department.

And again, this ISN'T about me and my personal experience, it is about the complete body of accounts, both known and unknown that say or feature "pointing to the sky and or saying god exists."

This has ALWAYS been the case, it is STILL the case today.

People have seen things in the skies, that ISN'T 'us', and they've further characterized these things as being 'better/more capable'...some have even gone full bore and even worshipped them as "God". I would not go so far.

Except that all of those things they've seen have been different things. I won't bother posting the list again since I know you've already seen it and will simply ignore it again, but the simple fact is that UFOs do not have a common cause. Everything from reflections, birds, the Moon and genuinely swamp gas refracting the light of Venus have at one time or another been reported as UFOs. There simply isn't a unified phenomenon.

In addition, the majority of reports have very little, or nothing at all, in common with your own, other than involving something that appeared to be in the sky. Which is why even other believers don't share your beliefs - their reports in no way support anything you claim.

 

[Drewbot]

The possibility that your "sighting" is the result of a delusion is, historically, far more likely than the possibility that you actually saw some kind of unknown craft being piloted by an advanced race of Earthlings. The considerations that your experience was caused by a hallucination, an illness, a mistake, and yes, maybe even a delusion, those are the common explanations.

Thank you GEEMACK for pointing this out.

I would also take into account the possibility that someone suffering a hallucination due to Narcolepsy or Fever, or Chemical imbalance, may rationalize this into a sighting of something such as UFOs, Bigfoot, Jersey Devil, etc... rather than putting themselves in the position of telling someone they had a hallucination. The stigma that the sighter percieves his friends, relatives, general public, have towards a hallucination is much greater that the stigma these people will have if the sighter tells them he saw Bigfoot, or a UFO.


ETA: You don't have to be crazy or mentally ill to have a hallucination. Sleep disorders, fever, ingested chemicals can all lead to hallucinations. Look up 'Night Hag' on Google Scholar for more info and studies regarding this.

 

[King of the Americas]

Thank you GEEMACK for pointing this out.

I would also take into account the possibility that someone suffering a hallucination due to Narcolepsy or Fever, or Chemical imbalance, may rationalize this into a sighting of something such as UFOs, Bigfoot, Jersey Devil, etc... rather than putting themselves in the position of telling someone they had a hallucination. The stigma that the sighter percieves his friends, relatives, general public, have towards a hallucination is much greater that the stigma these people will have if the sighter tells them he saw Bigfoot, or a UFO.


ETA: You don't have to be crazy or mentally ill to have a hallucination. Sleep disorders, fever, ingested chemicals can all lead to hallucinations. Look up 'Night Hag' on Google Scholar for more info and studies regarding this.

But I WASN'T sleepy, sick, or ON any drugs or mind altering plants...

What you are doing is dismissing the evidence because it doesn't 'fit' with the conclusion you've already reached.

YOU'VE jumped to the "delusion" smack, W/O any evidence.

 

[King of the Americas]

Yes. Before you argue with that, try looking up what that word actually means.

The event I described is not "completely implausible".

Firstly, mental illness is known to exist. Even without having a personal history of mental illness, that makes it a far more likely explanation than some nonsense for which there is not only no evidence, but no way it could possibly be true.

No it doesn't.

Secondly, you used to believe that the world would end in the year 2000 so strongly that you actually went around street evangelising. Despite the rather obvious evidence that your previous belief was complete bollocks and that the things you base your new claims on are simply not true, you now firmly believe that the world will end in 2012. I'd say delusional beliefs combined with the total inability to learn anything at all from past experience is a pretty good indicator that all may not be quite right in the brain department.

No I didn't. & No, I don't.

Except that all of those things they've seen have been different things. I won't bother posting the list again since I know you've already seen it and will simply ignore it again, but the simple fact is that UFOs do not have a common cause. Everything from reflections, birds, the Moon and genuinely swamp gas refracting the light of Venus have at one time or another been reported as UFOs. There simply isn't a unified phenomenon.

I never said there was.

In addition, the majority of reports have very little, or nothing at all, in common with your own, other than involving something that appeared to be in the sky. Which is why even other believers don't share your beliefs - their reports in no way support anything you claim.

So who EVER said that the 'things in the sky WERE all the same'...?

We aren't all the same, we don't all drive the same vehicles...why would they be any different?

 

[Cuddles]

The event I described is not "completely implausible".

The event is entirely plausible. The explanation, that there could be a large industrialised civilisation of intelligent non-humans living on Earth without anyone noticing, is not.

No it doesn't.

Really? You can honestly say with a straight face that an explanation that is known to apply to millions of people is not more plausible than an explanation supported by no evidence that only you believe in?

No I didn't. & No, I don't.

Liar.

I never said there was.

Yes you did. Remember your claim that UFOs are actually non-human aircraft? The thing we're discussing right now?

So who EVER said that the 'things in the sky WERE all the same'...?

We aren't all the same, we don't all drive the same vehicles...why would they be any different?

So not only do we have a large industrialised civilisation of intelligent non-humans living on Earth without anyone noticing, they now all drive completely different aircraft that follow different laws of physics? You're not making things any better for yourself here.

 

[Marduk]

STILL ignoring the fact that 'I' never said "alien"...

And again, this ISN'T about me and my personal experience, it is about the complete body of accounts, both known and unknown that say or feature "pointing to the sky and or saying god exists." .

do you not remember me asking you before then for any text that states that the gods were from "the sky" and you couldnt and then I pointed out that in the ancient world all the gods lived on a mountain heaven and that is why people used to say they came down to earth, not because they were from outer space, have you forgotten all the evidence I posted that supports that, none of which you could refute
youre still in denial
shame, because it means you still havent learned anything
which means of course that every new thread you post is just another demonstration of trolling

why am I not surprised

 

[King of the Americas]

Liar.


So not only do we have a large industrialised civilisation of intelligent non-humans living on Earth without anyone noticing, they now all drive completely different aircraft that follow different laws of physics? You're not making things any better for yourself here.

NOWHERE have I said anything about the world "ending"...

My point is the people HAVE noticed 'something', up there, for as long as we've been able to write on walls, we've said it.

Why would their technology be static? Why is it unreasonable to consider they'd have different vehicles for different purposes?