No Explosives Here?

My only problem is the notion that a "controlled demolition" would have been much more controlled. The fact is, aside from the initial tilt, the buildings both fell down. Straight down.

I think the debris pile and damage to the surrounding buildings would have been the same had the towers actually been CD'd.
I don't think it would have been nearly as big. If it had been a CD the lower supports would have bene cut, and thus the breakup of the building would have been at ground level rather than nearly a thousand feet above ground, and wouldn't have scattered as far.
 
I don't think it would have been nearly as big. If it had been a CD the lower supports would have bene cut, and thus the breakup of the building would have been at ground level rather than nearly a thousand feet above ground, and wouldn't have scattered as far.

would you be able to safely control a 110 story CD? (not the ones on 10th ave mind you theyre outta control LOL)
i always though they would have had to been deconstructed to a point then maybe CD the rest
but i dont know if they would have took a chance with the bathtub and everything underground there

at some point they would have had to come down (gravity always wins in the end)
before 9/11 i thought about how the towers would be retired a bunch of times and what kind of fanfare would be involved in saying goodbye to them
(sigh)
 
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would you be able to safely control a 110 story CD? (not the ones on 10th ave mind you theyre outta control LOL)
i always though they would have had to been deconstructed to a point then maybe CD the rest
but i dont know if they would have took a chance with the bathtub and everything underground there

at some point they would have had to come down (gravity always wins in the end)
before 9/11 i thought about how the towers would be retired a bunch of times and what kind of fanfare would be involved in saying goodbye to them
(sigh)
Oh, I doubt anything that big would be taken down by CD in such a built-up area, but it still wouldn't have been as messy as it was.
 
Oops, thermal expansion, around since the big bang. Sorry, your lack of knowledge is feeding your need to believe moronic delusions about 911.

Hoffman's ideas on thermite are insane. Got to love the thermite in the ceiling tiles it ranks right up there with beam weapons and nukes. Do you think Hoffman is smoking too much dope, or just a meth addict?

His addiction is much more serious. He's hooked on himself.
 
Wow... is that a super duper shop vac?
[qimg]http://www.mindspring.com/~cquade/pics/ShopVac1.jpg[/qimg]

Or one of those super duper hair vacuums?
Just think how fast it would be if it was in a Rainbow vacuum
[qimg]http://www.greatvacs.com/New%20Website%20images/Vacuum%20Pics/E2rainbow.jpg[/qimg]

and because I'm physic's challenged... what exactly is the speed of DARK?
:eek:

Since dark is the absence of light it would seem that dark retreats as fast as light approaches.
 
NIST did look for signs of explosives, and found none. Take a look at NCSTAR1-3.

It isn't "scientific bullying." You're just wrong.

12. Did the NIST investigation look for evidence of the WTC towers being brought down by controlled demolition? Was the steel tested for explosives or thermite residues? The combination of thermite and sulfur (called thermate) "slices through steel like a hot knife through butter."




NIST did not test for the residue of these compounds in the steel.
 
12. Did the NIST investigation look for evidence of the WTC towers being brought down by controlled demolition? Was the steel tested for explosives or thermite residues? The combination of thermite and sulfur (called thermate) "slices through steel like a hot knife through butter."




NIST did not test for the residue of these compounds in the steel.

continued.....

"The responses to questions number 2, 4, 5 and 11 demonstrate why NIST concluded that there were no explosives or controlled demolition involved in the collapses of the WTC towers.

Furthermore, a very large quantity of thermite (a mixture of powdered or granular aluminum metal and powdered iron oxide that burns at extremely high temperatures when ignited) or another incendiary compound would have had to be placed on at least the number of columns damaged by the aircraft impact and weakened by the subsequent fires to bring down a tower. Thermite burns slowly relative to explosive materials and can require several minutes in contact with a massive steel section to heat it to a temperature that would result in substantial weakening. Separate from the WTC towers investigation, NIST researchers estimated that at least 0.13 pounds of thermite would be required to heat each pound of a steel section to approximately 700 degrees Celsius (the temperature at which steel weakens substantially). Therefore, while a thermite reaction can cut through large steel columns, many thousands of pounds of thermite would need to have been placed inconspicuously ahead of time, remotely ignited, and somehow held in direct contact with the surface of hundreds of massive structural components to weaken the building. This makes it an unlikely substance for achieving a controlled demolition.

Analysis of the WTC steel for the elements in thermite/thermate would not necessarily have been conclusive. The metal compounds also would have been present in the construction materials making up the WTC towers, and sulfur is present in the gypsum wallboard that was prevalent in the interior partitions."


It really does pay to read the whole thing rather than just the bits that agree with your preconceived notions.
 
12. Did the NIST investigation look for evidence of the WTC towers being brought down by controlled demolition? Was the steel tested for explosives or thermite residues? The combination of thermite and sulfur (called thermate) "slices through steel like a hot knife through butter."




NIST did not test for the residue of these compounds in the steel.

Download NCSTAR 1-3 and all its subreports. Pay particular attention to 1-3C. Please identify the steel pieces in that inventory that were affected as if cut by "a hot knife through butter". When you do that, only then think about returning here to continue defending this charge.

-----

For everybody else not already aware of this (old timers can skip this; it's old hat to you all): I hate to ride this horse over and over again, but that's the sort of thing that'll happen when the same old myth gets presented over and over again. None of the recovered steel showed any sign of having been severed by explosives or incendiaries. This is documented in that section of the NIST report. This is one - just one; there are many others - of the reasons thermite or other incendiaries proposals fall flat on their face. NCSTAR 1-3C documents the "damage and failure modes" of structural steel components, and you'll notice that nowhere do they find melting or severed ends attributable to melting from incendiaries. Which is my point in bringing this up.

And don't fall for the "nanothermite as explosive" excuse. You'll find no steel that was severed through that sort of force either.
 
I don't think it would have been nearly as big. If it had been a CD the lower supports would have bene cut, and thus the breakup of the building would have been at ground level rather than nearly a thousand feet above ground, and wouldn't have scattered as far.

You're right of course WC. I agree with the principle you're stating. I was just trying to envoke the truther mentality. Obviously a top down CD would have been a nightmare for the imaginary engineers. Any real CD is from the bottom up. For a reason When we are in imagination land we have to give them some leeway. Well we don't actually, but we do for entertainment purposes.
 
I'll let others discuss this misuse of NFPA 921, but do a search in this forum for that term. In short, it's improper to cite it here.

And let's also remember that chemical testing for explosives has the strong potential to be inconclusive. How would there be any chance of distinguishing between explosives remains and naturally occuring organic materials combustoin residue from the fires themselves?
Whatever destroyed those massive structures so systematically must also have been present in the towers to such a degree that any proper, thorough, and unbiased, forensic analysis would have uncovered the necessay facts to know what actually occurred.
As it is, with the immediate disposal of the unexamined steel, and the media cover-up (see: Project Censored) there is still a very substantial body of damning evidence.

Besides, in this case the empirical evidence is so overwhelming I would not even need such an analysis to be 100% certain that explosives were used here. I don't know or care about thermite.
Try addressing the facts that are irreconcilable w/the official myth.

Is it also characterized by extremely loud sounds that would have the effect of shattering glass for blocks around -

The sounds? A Massive roar for 15 seconds..Thousands of explosions blurring into one prolonged event.
Read the Oral Histories for goddness sakes/// IT WAS VERY LOUD!!!! -
Listen to the audio on closeup vids.

Glass was shattered for hundreds of feet, everything was shattered,. the towers completely blown apart! The sound and later energy was tremendous - looks what remained of the buildings!

WTC7 was well over 300 feet away from the North Tower and it's collapse is blamed on damage created by N Tower's collapse (and fires having burned uncontrollably in offices for 7hrs)

Please see witness and WTC7 blast survivor (before the towers fell) long time NY City employee Barry Jennings http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=barry+jennings&search_type=&aq=f video testimony of what happened to him that morning (Please)

HOW DO YOU DISMISS THAT? I guess ike everything, buy getting hung up on minutia.

recall, a common preparatory procedure for actual explosives demolitions is to board up or otherwise protect (or remove) glass in neighboring buildings. Look at pictures of the Winter Garden's building across the street from the WTC complex for proof that no explosions occurred; what windows were broken were from falling debris. Explosions strong enough to drop the towers would have shattered all that glass.

Furthermore, it is a practice to remove people from the area in order to prevent injury from flying debris as well as barotrauma. For the latter, I've not found any studies indicating any numbers of barotraumatic injuries consistent with an explosion of even the size of the Madrid bombings or Israeli bus bombings, let alone for something as large what would be required for collapsing the Twin Towers, or even just 7 World Trade.

On top of that, you need to study the failure modes for the recovered steel components in NCSTAR 1-3C. None of them are consistent with explosives or incendiaries use.

If you study the legitimate research on nanothermite, you'll see that it's explosive properties are on the microscopic scale. For example, to force drugs past cell membranes. Or to achieve some result in the manufacture of microchips. Stating that nanothermite has high order explosive ability on the magnitude claimed here is unsupported.

On top of that, as pointed out earlier, all evidence contradicts the presence of explosives.

if you say so.
 
Whatever destroyed those massive structures so systematically must also have been present in the towers to such a degree that any proper, thorough, and unbiased, forensic analysis would have uncovered the necessay facts to know what actually occurred.
As it is, with the immediate disposal of the unexamined steel, and the media cover-up (see: Project Censored) there is still a very substantial body of damning evidence.
Again, are you an ESL student? You keep using words that do not mean what you think they mean.

Please look up Fresh Kills landfill and educate yourself.

Please PROVIDE ANY PROOF that shows explosives were used. It should be rather easy. I'll wait.

Besides, in this case the empirical evidence is so overwhelming I would not even need such an analysis to be 100% certain that explosives were used here. I don't know or care about thermite.
Try addressing the facts that are irreconcilable w/the official myth.
GREAT. PROVIDE ANY.

You really should use dictionary.com to help with that reading comprehension.


The sounds? A Massive roar for 15 seconds..Thousands of explosions blurring into one prolonged event.
Right. Find ANY explosive that makes a massive roar. I have provided you with video of EXPLOSIVES. They don't make a ROAR. The ROAR was the collapse of 2 110 story tall buildings. It is called a collapse, not an explosion.

Please provide ANY PROOF that thousands of explosives would blur into one prolonged event.

Read the Oral Histories for goddness sakes/// IT WAS VERY LOUD!!!! -
Listen to the audio on closeup vids.

I have. You obviously haven't. Now that you have DATAMINED the quotes, go and READ FOR COMPRHENSION. READ THE FULL QUOTES.

Please pay attention


I"ll post more later.
you really should do 5 minutes of REAL research.
 
Everything atavisms has said for the pass couple of days can be sumed up as
what the evidence shows
"When I look at the towers and WTC7 I think it looks like a CD, which is proof enough for me that it was". When ever he is asked for proof he will either post a link to some one else who thinks it "doesn't look right", or restate that all we have to do to see the evidence of CD is to "just look at the dust".

That is how proof is presented, through referencing it. Trying to get anyone to look at it like the jurors we are.
http://www.vloggingtheapocalypse.co...864&title=9_11_FLIR_INFRARED_WTC_TEMPERATURES

If all this PROOF is not enough for you. It is certainly, unquestionably, far more compelling than any of the hapless 'debunkers' who cannot refute simple facts simply, in the same manner as I can present facts that anyone can verify..
You will believe it only when it is fed to you by the corporate mainstream media. [/QUOTE]

atavisms your "just look at it"
You 'just look at it" I have an informed opinion.
debating tactic will never work here (many have tried), and it seems that nothing we say will ever convince you. What do you have to prove to us, why are you here? Can we skip this whole point less game and just agree to disaree?

aside from having to constantly say how badly I wish you guys were right, I am not addressing myself to your set/closed minds, I am offering information to open minds. Most American have never heard of WTC 7.
But that is okay with you. The 9/11 commission did a great job.
Many people, not saying you, know just enough to know nothing.
 
Everything atavisms has said for the pass couple of days can be sumed up as "When I look at the towers and WTC7 I think it looks like a CD, which is proof enough for me that it was". When ever he is asked for proof he will either post a link to some one else who thinks it "doesn't look right", or restate that all we have to do to see the evidence of CD is to "just look at the dust".

That is how proof is presented, through referencing it.


In a word, no. Claiming that something "doesn't look right to me" is not, in any way, shape or form, evidence (let alone 'proof'), nor is it an acceptable way of "presenting" evidence.

Trying to get anyone to look at it like the jurors we are.


So, you're a juror now, are you? You do realize that you need an accused first, right? So, who is the accused? So far, you have not named anyone, and you have not presented any evidence. Please name names, and present your evidence.

Then we can talk.
 
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what the evidence shows
The evidence for controlled demolition just isn't coming in, and you've been unable to demonstrate any valid engineering justification to contradict the combined role of fire and impact in collapse initiation. You may not be satisfied nor able to accept it. But the controlled demolition argument is a pile of horse manure.


That is how proof is presented, through referencing it. Trying to get anyone to look at it like the jurors we are.
http://www.vloggingtheapocalypse.co...864&title=9_11_FLIR_INFRARED_WTC_TEMPERATURES
On the contrary, the thermal imagery of the debris piles DISPROVES any notion that incendiaries were in any way responsible, let alone present in the first place. The truth movement, true to their habits only provide "hormone enhanced" half truths. Thermite can't sustain a hefty reaction for days, let alone weeks or months, it burns and expends it's fuel rapidly, far too much to be of any consequence for what you're portraying they were.


You will believe it only when it is fed to you by the corporate mainstream media.
I'll let you in on a little secret. I needed neither the media, nor NIST to tell me what brought those towers down. The explanations from an engineering context were perfectly reasonable, not to mention tragic.

You 'just look at it" I have an informed opinion.
When pigs fly...

Most American have never heard of WTC 7.
But that is okay with you. The 9/11 commission did a great job.
Many people, not saying you, know just enough to know nothing.
Anyone who thinks of the 911 commission report as an investigative body in structural engineering clearly is in no position to be lecturing others about informed opinions.


The sounds? A Massive roar for 15 seconds..Thousands of explosions blurring into one prolonged event.
Read the Oral Histories for goddness sakes/// IT WAS VERY LOUD!!!! -
Listen to the audio on closeup vids.
Do any of you cherry-picked witness reports include testimony to permanent hearing impairment resulting from the sound levels of these explosives? Serious question.

Glass was shattered for hundreds of feet, everything was shattered
Any idea about why these earth shattering explosives only selectively shattered windows?...
http://www.designaids.com/wtc/wtc147.jpg


HOW DO YOU DISMISS THAT? I guess ike everything, buy getting hung up on minutia.
if you say so.

Minuta are kind of important. You see, when somebody screams CONTROLLED DEMOLITION!!!!! and the most important details that are needed to support it are missing... it's hard to give it particularly great credence...
 
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The dogs that were on site post collapse looking for survivors and cadavers? Many of them were cross trained for explosives. Not a one of them alerted for explosives.
 
that FLIR that was used was ONLY able to detect something up to 120 deg. C. This proves nothing.

I can build a fire on my porch that will reach over 600 deg. c.
 

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