Anybody think there are Aliens (UFO)?

UFOs as beings from other planets is the most absurd thing people believe in these days. Everyone knows UFOs are from the civilisation that lives at the bottom of the sea and under the continents. They evolved faster than us and thus have greater technology. In recent times they have become addicted to Pepsi, and thus make runs to the surface in search of this nectar. It's true! I've talked with Bob.
 
Starthinker said:
UFOs as beings from other planets is the most absurd thing people believe in these days. Everyone knows UFOs are from the civilisation that lives at the bottom of the sea and under the continents. They evolved faster than us and thus have greater technology. In recent times they have become addicted to Pepsi, and thus make runs to the surface in search of this nectar. It's true! I've talked with Bob.
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Wrong! They are addicted to Pepsi Blue! Come on, get your anecdotes facts straight! :rolleyes:
 
makaya325 said:
http://oai.dtic.mil/oai/oai?verb=getRecord&metadataPrefix=html&identifier=AD0700107

http://www.science-frontiers.com/on...tices&zoom_per_page=50&zoom_and=1&zoom_sort=0

http://skepticx.myweb.uga.edu/skep_3.html
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Interesting. the Science Frontiers link shows me a search page with three results about crop circles, which are known absolutely to be made by people.

The sci.skeptic link contains the phrase A number of theories have been proposed, suggesting that some UFOs are "plasmas" or variations of ball lightning or earthquake lights. Unfortunately, the theories seem to change to fit observed data, rather than predict the observations.

And we all know how reliable the Defence Technical Information Center is. :rolleyes:
 
I was listening to C2C the other night and George was interviewing Drunvalo Melchizadek who claimed there were at least 250,000 different alien civilizations interacting with humans.

It must be true... I heard it on the radio.
 
arthwollipot said:
Interesting. the Science Frontiers link shows me a search page with three results about crop circles, which are known absolutely to be made by people.
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Yes but obviously made by people who are manipulating a Plasma Vortex Matrix BioPsychlodal Device :D
 
UnrepentantSinner said:
I was listening to C2C the other night and George was interviewing Drunvalo Melchizadek who claimed there were at least 250,000 different alien civilizations interacting with humans.

It must be true... I heard it on the radio.
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Yeah, and Drunvalo should know. He is, after all, channeling an Atlantean.
 
I believe that most skeptics still consider the "unknown natural phenomena" explanation over the et Hypothesis
 
makaya325 said:
I believe that most skeptics still consider the "unknown natural phenomena" explanation over the et Hypothesis
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I believe that a true sceptic wouldn't allow an "unknown natural phenomenon" to be used as an "explanation" ;)
 
I would be equally amazed by either condition:

Amazed if there were no other intelligent races anywhere in the universe.

Amazed if any of them had ever made the l-o-n-g trip to Earth.
 
Elvis666 said:
I would be equally amazed by either condition:

Amazed if there were no other intelligent races anywhere in the universe.
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Be amazed buddy, there´s no reason to think that we are the only intelligent beings in the entire universe.


Elvis666 said:
Amazed if any of them had ever made the l-o-n-g trip to Earth.
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That´s the boring part. :(
 
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Of Course UFOs "exist".

Bottom line?
UFOs exist.
THAT much we DO know.
What we DON'T know is the full explanation.
Sure we can apply post hoc rationalisation and call them misperceptions or hoaxes, or mis-rememberings, etc.,
However, even after we do this using rigorous scientific, critical and logical methodology, there REMAIN cases outstanding for which we have no explanation.
That is the bottom line.
It is up to researchers to discover what is going on to cause (for example) the abduction phenomena.
(But of course no funding is forthcoming because "debunkers" continue their fatuous "denial" and "ridicule" campaign).
It is too easy to say "Oh these people are all deluded!", but that EXPLAINS nothing!
HOW is it that millions of otherwise normal, healthy people are so "deluded"?
Certainly most are extremely traumatised by the "experience".
And given the public disbelief, ridicule and social stigma attached, there is certainly no good outcome for the majority of people having such experiences.
There just does not seem to be any motivation for such experiences in normal healthy people.
So WHY is it so?
We know why people believe in religion for example, because they obtain security.
So a "belief" in UFOs cannot be related to religious belief, it is of a different kind altogether.
Belief in the ET hypothesis might however be directly related to a "religious" experience.
They are "coming to save us from ourselves" is a typical "woo" belief construct.
But interest in the "Unknown" is altogether human. Curiosity... safety...
We observe an inexplicable phenomenon and our evolutionary urge is to investigate.
Friend or foe?
When it turns out to be not a threat, then we are likely to dismiss it as irrelevant.
This has happened to UFO research.
Then came the debunkers.
Unable to sort the wheat from the chaff they lumped the "Unknown" into the "Ridiculous".
Highly uncritical and unscientific behaviour - but that is the way of the world....
Anti-rationalists have been crying long and loud since time immemorial:
"I believe it cannot be so, therefore it is not!"
What bunk!
What humbug!
The only way to resolve issues like this are via thorough peer reviewed scientific research.
Fat chance! (if Randi et al. have their way)
On this point, UFOs, JREF has seriously gone off track and ventured into the uncritical, anti-rational, illogical, dogmatic, fundamentalist and unscientific.
Pity really, what awaits discovery in the field of UFO research?
We cannot tell because there is no peer review process and any old nutter can (and does) come up with all sorts of outrageous and crazy claims.
Then of course JREF comes down hard on the nutters and disingenuously links serious researchers to them.
That's what happens when you lose sight of the big picture.
Oh well, the journey of discovery for mankind was ever thus.
 
Rramjet said:
Bottom line?
UFOs exist.
THAT much we DO know.
What we DON'T know is the full explanation.
Sure we can apply post hoc rationalisation and call them misperceptions or hoaxes, or mis-rememberings, etc.,
However, even after we do this using rigorous scientific, critical and logical methodology, there REMAIN cases outstanding for which we have no explanation.
Click to expand...

However, there is no reason to believe they are unexplicable.

That is the bottom line.
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No it's not. Show us a case where there is evidence for something that cannot be explained.

It is up to researchers to discover what is going on to cause (for example) the abduction phenomena.
(But of course no funding is forthcoming because "debunkers" continue their fatuous "denial" and "ridicule" campaign).
It is too easy to say "Oh these people are all deluded!", but that EXPLAINS nothing!
HOW is it that millions of otherwise normal, healthy people are so "deluded"?
Certainly most are extremely traumatised by the "experience".
And given the public disbelief, ridicule and social stigma attached, there is certainly no good outcome for the majority of people having such experiences.
There just does not seem to be any motivation for such experiences in normal healthy people.
So WHY is it so?
We know why people believe in religion for example, because they obtain security.
So a "belief" in UFOs cannot be related to religious belief, it is of a different kind altogether.
Belief in the ET hypothesis might however be directly related to a "religious" experience.
They are "coming to save us from ourselves" is a typical "woo" belief construct.
But interest in the "Unknown" is altogether human. Curiosity... safety...
We observe an inexplicable phenomenon and our evolutionary urge is to investigate.
Friend or foe?
When it turns out to be not a threat, then we are likely to dismiss it as irrelevant.
This has happened to UFO research.
Then came the debunkers.
Unable to sort the wheat from the chaff they lumped the "Unknown" into the "Ridiculous".
Highly uncritical and unscientific behaviour - but that is the way of the world....
Anti-rationalists have been crying long and loud since time immemorial:
"I believe it cannot be so, therefore it is not!"
What bunk!
What humbug!
The only way to resolve issues like this are via thorough peer reviewed scientific research.
Fat chance! (if Randi et al. have their way)
On this point, UFOs, JREF has seriously gone off track and ventured into the uncritical, anti-rational, illogical, dogmatic, fundamentalist and unscientific.
Pity really, what awaits discovery in the field of UFO research?
We cannot tell because there is no peer review process and any old nutter can (and does) come up with all sorts of outrageous and crazy claims.
Then of course JREF comes down hard on the nutters and disingenuously links serious researchers to them.
That's what happens when you lose sight of the big picture.
Oh well, the journey of discovery for mankind was ever thus.
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:snicker:
 
HiYa Gord! :)

You mean "...there is no reason to believe they are "inexplicable"...? Of course, hence my call for research - because they remain unexplained.

:)
 
arthwollipot said:
While technically true, this is not a reason to believe that aliens have visited this planet. Again - you cannot logically use "we don't know" as a reason for knowing! It's absurd!

And as for "the entire body of sightings from the dawn of mankind up to the present day", I invite you to actually examine them. The earliest consist of imagery that we don't necessarily know how to interpret without intimate knowledge of the cultures that produced them. The next most recent are actually descriptions of angels, devils, demons and witches that have been reinterpreted in modern times to refer to aliens. The most recent are so obviously influenced by modern pop culture as to be clearly nothing more than a a sociological phenomenon.

All in all, the evidence "from the dawn of mankind" is extremely poor in ever conceivable way.

Think about this. If you were able to build a spacecraft and travel to other worlds, would you:

a) land in their biggest city and say "take me to your leader"?
b) land out in the country beside some guy who no-one's going to believe and strut up and down wearing silly antennae on your head making "beep beep" noises?
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If I traveled to a planet that earth was much more technologically than, I sure as hell wouldn't land in a big city and say take me to your leader. You might get killed or kept in a zoo. I would discretely observe to get a lay of the land first. From those observations one might conclude that it wouldn't be wise to interact with them. If so, I sure as hell wouldn't just fly away, I would want to isolate some and study them; advancement of science and all that.

The body of evidence that supports alien visitation is greatly exaggerated. A majority, if not a totality, of "sightings" have a rational explanation - even if we do not currently know what that explanation is - that does not involve aliens visiting our little planet.
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Fair enough, I respect your opinion.
 
I hate it when UFO nuts ask skeptics "you really think we are alone?", just because the skeptic does not accept anecdotal evidence as proof.
 
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