Encountered my first "Truther" today

[TruthersLie]

Gravy,
Make a decision. Either ignore me or don't. Either retire or don't. But if you chime in the thread and address me directly expect a response and the expectation of civil discourse or there would be no reason to get involved in this discussion.

The quoted post of course is a helpful illustration with what's wrong with this so-called debunking. As usual it's all about you, and then you premise the entire post on a fabrication, a lie, to use your favorite word.

First, where did I say I find "it impossible that a hotheaded truther kid would stand behind the car of someone he's had an argument with"? I said I don't believe this story about this kid, as described by tricharity. There's a difference.

Secondly, just by sheer probability there are going to be people who engage in bad, even criminal behavior, whether they support inside job theories or they don't. What you are doing, and what is done far too often around here is conflating the behavior of all people who argue the official story and putting them under the big tent of Truther.

You would lose a great deal of your rhetoric if you had to see your opponents as individuals and treat them as such. This conflation and marginalization is the cheapest of rhetorical tactics and allows you to demonize an entire group of people. This is directly related to the response that the OP got. There was a willingness to accept the entire story without even a murmur of skepticism because it fit expectations of a Truther, a non-existent monolithic entity, more the product of imagination than reality.

No what you did say was
"First his story is exposed as a fabrication "


Not, I think this is bunk. Not I think you are making this up. No you made a DEFINATIVE STATEMENT OF FACT. Fact which you cannot support.

and you have spent the last 2 pages dodging around, Oh the debunkers are soo mad, they are such hypocrites... blah blah blah.

You made the claim, so support it. otherwise apologize for slandering a members name. You have been asked repeatedly to do so yet you don't.

 

[TruthersLie]

It's always heartening when a mod jumps in and ladels over another layer of pop psychology, marginalization and labeling.

Your, dare I say, "knee-jerk" lecture on false certitude is proven wrong when I said I would accept the conditions Hokulele suggested. I am not certain about Tri's story. I was also never arrogant or disrespectful. I offered and received a measure of respect from Tri. All I've done is question the veracity of his story, and I'm not alone in this thread in doing that.

The reaction I've received is ironic considering this is a skeptic's forum. I ask you, sincerely, reading back on Tri's story and all of the subsequent details, did your skeptic's bell ring even once?

dodge dodge dodge

Did you or did you not say
"First his story is exposed as a fabrication"

yes or no?
don't dogde twoof. Did you or did you not say
"First his story is exposed as a fabrication "

a fabrication = something created as in something that is not true. PROVE IT or apologize for your childish (which it certainly is now) behavior.

 

[Gravy]

I can never decide if truther psychology is fascinating or really dull. The following is quoted for truth:

no where in this thread has Tri's story been "exposed as a fabrication."

please provide a citation or offer an apology for slandering Tri.

His position here is, I really, really want to believe that Tri's story was exposed as a fabrication.

yeah red where was he "exposed"?

You should take that accusation back, or it will be added to the other baseless and ignorant accusations you have thrown at innocent people in your cowardly posting history.

And for that, he's called a liar. And truthers wonder why people despise them.

Wow, that is shockingly bold claim are we are going to have to insist that you immediately follow up with support for that defamation.

That is an outright lie, and if you don't retract it, you are a liar.

You're entitled to doubt triforcharity's story, but you're not entitled to state it was exposed as a fabrication when nothing of the sort actually took place. At least not without everyone here pointing out that you're a liar.

OK everyone, may I have you attention for a moment? Behold the Truth Movement. Consider: RedIbis is accusing someone else of fabrication, despite the fact that he has absolutely no proof of it. Despite the fact that his own credibility in this issue has been completely shot, when he made claims about Florida arrest reports that turned out to be completely untrue.

You should apologize, RedIbis. There is no evidence that his story is a fabrication.

Arguments from incredulity don't gain any traction here.

Whether you wish to buy it or not, that isn't what you claimed. YOu claimed that it was an outright fabrication and was exposed as being one.

now, I for one would love to see the citation which shows that it was a "fabrication" which was exposed. Where is it?

...Either retract your bs claim or be the liar we all know you are.

But it turns out this:

is still a lie.

It's been a tough day for Red Ibis. First his post is exposed as a complete fabrication and now he does not have the balls to back it up.

When was his story shown to be a fabrication? Did I miss something or is 'Red' making things up again?

That was just a big ol' lie.

Fine. You don't believe it.

However, you should apologize for your original assertion and rephrase it to simply say "I don't believe it" because, again, there is no evidence that his story is a fabrication.

Simple as that, mate.

exactly, its your opinion and like others have pointed out you stated his story was fabricated as a FACT
so when you misrepresent your opinion as fact that makes you a liar

None of that changes the fact that you told a demonstrable lie.

But that is not what you said. You liar

Problem is, you didn't say you "don't believe the guy's story", you said that it was "fabricated".

A simple correction in your first post after someone called you on it would have sufficed, but I guess you felt it was worth arguing about, so here we are.

None of that changes the fact that you told a demonstrable lie.

the extraordinary claim is YOU claiming tri fabricated his story
wheres your proof?
opinions dont count as we all know what they say about those

fabrication is steven jones altering pictures
i dont see you yelling at him

it takes a big man to admit when hes wrong (and you are so obviously wrong)

C'mon, Red, do it, don't complain, don't bitch, just back up YOUR claim.

or stfu

or say sorry

There's only one proven liar in this thread so far.

No.

It isn't that you just said "I don't believe this guy's story."

Is your reading and writing comprehension that bad?

what did you say? proven false. exposed as a fabrication.

please provide a citation to show you "exposing" this as a fabrication. Any citation would suffice.

Otherwise you have just slandered a member here. Do you have proof it is a fabrication? Yes or no?

it really is a simple question.

You really, really, really, really don't get it, do you? I don't care what you think. I don't care what your opinion is. When you state that something has been "exposed as a fabrication," that isn't just some turn of phrase, or a random combination of words. You're stating something as a fact.

See the three words I underlined in the preceding paragraph? Well guess what: They're not equivalent. You don't simply get to say things as if they're facts, based on what you happen to think -- especially when what you think is based upon nothing more than "I don't like it."

But you didn't stop there. You said this story about this kid had been exposed as a fabrication. That was a lie.

It has been more than 24 hours since you made this claim:

"His story is exposed as a fabrication."

It is time for you to support your claim, Red, no more changing the subject, no more ******** equivocations:

Put up, or for god’s sake shut up.

No, it wouldn't. For it to be true, specific information would have to have been presented that demonstrated the story to be false. Its current status is that its truth value is unknown, so your statement that it had been exposed as a fabrication was untrue. You knew that no such event had taken place, so your statement was a lie. And what's worse is that you know perfectly well that it was a lie, and you're now trying to confuse the issue to pretend it wasn't. And this is exactly what we've come to expect from the truth movement; tell a lie, then try to pretend it wasn't a lie, then say you're searching for the truth. Lies and hypocrisy.

You claimed it was exposed as a fabrication, and we have asked you to show us where and how.

And you have refused to do so, and you have whined ever since being called on it. Because you know that you can't justify your claim. Because it is a fabrication.

I don't understand why RedIbis bothers to tell such obvious lies. It's not as if he ever fools anybody with them. All he does is further expose himself as a despicable liar.

You said that triforcharity's account "has been exposed as a fabrication." There's a difference.

...Thus, I believe (note the lack of a claim of incontrovertible fact here) that others are being very uncharitable by calling your claim that triforcharity's account "has been exposed as a fabrication" a lie. More likely it was, instead, just an ingrained knee-jerk claim rooted in false certitude with no meaning, intention, or thought behind it.

However, please be aware that there are many who, not realizing that such claims actually mean absolutely nothing even to the people making them, might mistake them for dishonesty, arrogance, disrespect, ignorance, irrationality, hatred, or malice.

None of that changes the fact that you told a demonstrable lie.

That statement is not only beyond moronic, it's cowardly. What you said is a lie because you don't know whether it's true or not, but you said it anyway as a fact. That's the very definition of a lie. And you know what? It will continue to be a lie, now and forever, irrespective of whether or not Triforcharity's story is ever confirmed. Because even if you happened to guess correctly (which I very strongly doubt), you had no right to state it as a fact without first knowing whether or not it is actually true. Thus you lied.

Youu are far, far too kind. He has been asked repeatedly to justify or withdraw his comments, and he has flat out refused to do so.The fact that he made the claim, and refuses to support or withdraw it, demonstrates that he is acting from "dishonesty, arrogance, disrespect, ignorance, irrationality, hatred, or malice" as you put it.

Another lie.

None of that changes the fact that you told a demonstrable lie.

No, liar, you claimed that it was a "exposed as a fabrication." Shockingly, you haven't backed that statement up yet.

"a measure of respect" except that part when you called him a liar, huh porkchop?

I kept holding out hope that RebIbis would someday get his act together instead of demonstrating moral and intellectual cowardice. There were some moments of hope, albeit faint that this might happen.

I am now convinced that this will never happen. RedIbis has flagrantly lied and isn't able to own up to it. This is the worst sort of behavior.

I have RedIbis on ignore, but I'll throw this invitation out to him anyway.

RedIbis, as has been pointed out, after your initial false statement, a simple "I misspoke and retract my accusation that triforcharity's story was exposed as a fabrication" from you would have sufficed. Instead, you've made every effort to defend your indefensible behavior, thus turning a brief, childish outburst into an extended tantrum.

You can stop this and try to make amends. You don't even have to compose your own response:

"I initially misspoke when I said that triforcharity's story had been exposed as a fabrication. I apologize to him for that. I should have retracted that statement immediately. I do understand the difference between stating an opinion and stating a fact. I apologize to all for dragging this out."

Copy and paste. Easy.

 

[TexasJack]

I don't expect Red to retract his statement, after all, denial is the core of trutherism.

 

[RedIbis]

I have RedIbis on ignore, but I'll throw this invitation out to him anyway.

That's just goofy.

 

[johnny karate]

That's just goofy.

It doesn't change the fact that you told a demonstrable lie.

 

[The Big Dog]

That's just goofy.

Hey Red, most people are smart enough to realize that when you are in a deep hole, you should stop digging. You appear to not only failed to stop digging, you have hit a sewer line, and are now taking a **** shower.

/I have never put anyone on ignore, even complete wastes of skin like Homeland insurgency and tweeter, but man i am sorely tempted with Red's weaseling here.

 

[Hokulele]

If we attached a reversed-gear stationary bike this thread, then connected that to a generator, we could solve the energy crisis.

 

[triforcharity]

I spoke to the SAO today regarding this case. She has informed me that he will be released to his grandmother, as his mother is currently incarcerated, and his father is deceased. This will not happen untill he has been in for 21 days. They will be filing charges for the following charges, due to my opinion on the case.

Obstructing the flow of traffic
Harassment of a LEO/Firefighter/EMT

These are both misdemeanors, as I urged them to reduce his charges to that level. I did not want to see a VERY stupid misstake ruining this kids whole entire life. A felony would do exactly that.

I will be posting a sanitized copy of the police report here as soon as I get it, and I will be posting a mostly unsanitized report to the MODS for verification, but I must get approval of the SAO to release it, as this case is a juvenille case, and certain laws apply differently to juvies.

Red,

When you post something as fact, and it is proven without a shadow of a doubt to be a lie, it is best to retract that statement. It is the honorable thing to do.

If my story could be proven to be a lie (Which it cannot, as it is 100% true) I would immeadiatly retract my statement, as it would be the honorable thing to do.

 

[Gravy]

Good on ya for weighing in with your opinion that the charges should be reduced. Hopefully those 21 days will induce some healthy introspection in the kid. Thanks for the update.

 

[Hokulele]

I spoke to the SAO today regarding this case. She has informed me that he will be released to his grandmother, as his mother is currently incarcerated, and his father is deceased.

Egads, the poor kid. Hopefully this will be a wake-up call.

 

[Justin39640]

its sad really
its just another example of a truthers mindset

he took my lil friendly snip to tri and the bosox (which again was in fun) and totally twisted it into an unfounded accusation

then after it was pointed out (and any 4th grader in the world could tell that what red said was an out and out lie)
he defends himself like a lunatic
then he wont even admit what he said

red this thread should be your wake up call
none of us are 100% right all of the time
you were wrong
you have to know it
pride isnt worth looking stupid like this

if you still dont see what you did wrong you either need to get back into school or see a mental health professional

 

[triforcharity]

I truely feel bad for this kid. Grown up with a mother who has aparently been in and out of prison and jail all his life, raised by his grandmother, no father figure anywhere in sight that can be pinpointed, and has resorted to being accepted by the Truth movement. This is why I sent the kid a letter and some money. I really do feel bad for him.

If I can help this kid, and be someone he can look up to, than I will. I really want to see him walk away from this a changed person. It would make my life worthwhile.

21 days doesn't seem like a long time, but, for a 17 year old, its a lifetime. Hopefully he takes to heart what I have wrote him. We shall see.

 

[Gravy]

Egads, the poor kid. Hopefully this will be a wake-up call.

But enough about RedIbis....

 

[FineWine]

It's always heartening when a mod jumps in and ladels over another layer of pop psychology, marginalization and labeling.

Your, dare I say, "knee-jerk" lecture on false certitude is proven wrong when I said I would accept the conditions Hokulele suggested. I am not certain about Tri's story. I was also never arrogant or disrespectful. I offered and received a measure of respect from Tri. All I've done is question the veracity of his story, and I'm not alone in this thread in doing that.

The reaction I've received is ironic considering this is a skeptic's forum. I ask you, sincerely, reading back on Tri's story and all of the subsequent details, did your skeptic's bell ring even once?

So, if you're "not certain about Tri's story," in what sense has it been exposed as a fabrication?

Please note that this is a separate issue from the fact that Tri's story turned out not to be a fabrication.

 

[Hokulele]

But enough about RedIbis....

 

[Gravy]

I truely feel bad for this kid. Grown up with a mother who has aparently been in and out of prison and jail all his life, raised by his grandmother, no father figure anywhere in sight that can be pinpointed, and has resorted to being accepted by the Truth movement. This is why I sent the kid a letter and some money. I really do feel bad for him.

If I can help this kid, and be someone he can look up to, than I will. I really want to see him walk away from this a changed person. It would make my life worthwhile.

21 days doesn't seem like a long time, but, for a 17 year old, its a lifetime. Hopefully he takes to heart what I have wrote him. We shall see.

Why do I have an image of this resulting in a TV movie based on the life of triforcharity and his brood of 12 ex-truther adoptees?


(Seriously, nice post.)

 

[JoeyDonuts]

Why do I have an image of this resulting in a TV movie based on the life of triforcharity and his brood of 12 ex-truther adoptees?


(Seriously, nice post.)

How about an A&E drama in the same vein as "The Cleaner," just with 9/11 activists?

Who'd play the title role? What would we call it?

 

[triforcharity]

Thank you gravy.

No, I would turn down a made for TV movie, as I do not want fame. All I wanna do is help, that is it. Plus, I can't stand my own kids, why would I adopt more??

J/k, I absoluetly love my children.

Red,

Care to explain why you lied about my story being a proven lie?? I would LOVE to see this ................

 

[triforcharity]

Plus, nobody could play me, as nobody could POSSIBLY be that good looking!! It ouldn't do me any justice!!


JUST KIDDING!!!!!!!!!!!!!