Going to the Creation "Museum"

[technoextreme]

Who actually believes this is an honest attempt to learn? Certainly not the staff and visitors. This will be bad PR for the causes supported by the group, even if it somehow stays quiet and respectful.

Are you seriously telling me that you have never done anything remotely similar to that?

Just to kick this dead horse one more time, you don't see "loud and proud" Creationists show up by the hundreds at natural history museums wearing Jesus Fish t-shirts.

Actually, you do and in fact the Smithsonian Musuem of Natural History in DC caught a lot of flack for joining in on the fun.

 

[Monketi Ghost]

Are you seriously telling me that you have never done anything remotely similar to that?

Don't know why quoting your post for reply adds more to the post than I could see... but oh well.

Is this an attempt at tu quoque? Are you seriously using that as an argument? I'd have figured a skeptic ought to recognize the error while constructing the argument, not afterwards...

Actually, you do and in fact the Smithsonian Musuem of Natural History in DC caught a lot of flack for joining in on the fun.

ETA: now I get it.

 

[Maia]

Snip. Never mind. Y'all were going to that one after all.

 

[Maia]

Anyway, I have to admit, it'll be interesting to hear about how this field trip goes. A bunch of Nashville atheists were talking about something similar, but on a far smaller scale. I felt rather apprehensive about the whole idea, but I don't like confrontations at ALL.

 

[MikeSun5]

Fundamentalist churches and religious schools do organize tours of natural history museums where they talk about how this is all proof that their creationist beliefs are correct.

Actually, you do and in fact the Smithsonian Musuem of Natural History in DC caught a lot of flack for joining in on the fun.

I assume you're talking about this "incident" in DC. That actually made me laugh.

I'm wondering how you think some kids wandering the Smithsonian alone whispering nonsense in people's ears is equal to 240 people showing up "loud and proud" to a museum that is a fraction of the size of the Smithsonian. (fact check: Creation Museum = 75,000 sq. ft. ...Smithsonian Natural History Museum = 325,000 sq. ft.) So no, that is not the same. Not even close.

Ridicule is a form of harassment, and I would believe that the museum would be fully in their rights to kick the harassers out and keep their money.

Yep, that sounds about right. I'm sure the owners/operators of that museum would LOVE to make off with some free atheist loot.

 

[Robster FCD]

I assume you're talking about this "incident" in DC. That actually made me laugh.

I'm wondering how you think some kids wandering the Smithsonian alone whispering nonsense in people's ears is equal to 240 people showing up "loud and proud" to a museum that is a fraction of the size of the Smithsonian. (fact check: Creation Museum = 75,000 sq. ft. ...Smithsonian Natural History Museum = 325,000 sq. ft.) So no, that is not the same. Not even close.

Thats just one report of an event. Then there are home schoolers who make organized group outings, church schools (not just babble colleges), etc.

 

[Erigena]

It is an interesting concept. There have been 'reviews' and videos made of the Creation Museum. But sometimes it is a good idea to see what it is that others are saying, and experience it for yourself.

They could go to a church service and get the same concept.

I just hope that everyone attending is courteous, and doesn't create any problems.

I hate to say it, but when a large group of people show up to demonstrate their opinion, there's always one person who does something stupid.

 

[Erigena]

Its not the best situation, but there are lots of people there for the meeting, others who have wanted to go to the museum out of curiosity, and the group rate was too good to say no, and then there are those who just want to meet PZ.

You could have gone in a group of six. You're obviously trying to make a statement. The appearance of 240 people is confrontational.

No one is asking for your approval or endorsement.

The subject was open for debate when it was posted. Opinions on the matter were welcomed whether in agreement or not with your own.

 

[Erigena]

Just how do we fight for that respect? By cowering in the corner and censoring ourselves?

Respect is earned, not given. Showing up in a horde doesn't teach people to think critically about their beliefs. It causes people to take a deffensive position and further closes the bridge for a rational dialog. You can't gain acceptance or expect tolerance of your own beliefs if you don't practice it with others.

Your concern is noted. And dismissed.

I can see you're exercising some serious critical thinking about your own actions. I'm sure the believers you seek to enlighten at the Creation Museum will have the same reaction. Fundamentalist behavior isn't limited to religion.

 

[stilicho]

Quote:
Just how do we fight for that respect? By cowering in the corner and censoring ourselves?

http://www.christiancentury.org/article.lasso?id=4350

How about by allying with Christians who aren't YEC or OEC?

From that article: The message could not be clearer: if you accept anything less than the young-earth creationist view, sooner or later your church will die and you will no doubt become an atheist.

It looks like the target audience for that museum is sceptical Christians and not people of other faiths or inclinations.

 

[MikeSun5]

Thats just one report of an event. Then there are home schoolers who make organized group outings, church schools (not just babble colleges), etc.

I understand that, I'm just saying home schoolers and churches would be hard pressed to get together a group of 240 people. Sure, they organize group outings, but I'd be very surprised if any of their outings topped 100 people. Hell, I'd be surprised if they managed to get 75 people together. That'd be like 3 or 4 church classes or like 15-25 home school families. See the difference?

Anyway, I'm done preaching. My point has been driven into the ground.

Robster, I hope you update this thread with how everything turns out (no sugar coating or hyperbole, please ). I'm really curious.

 

[kedo1981]

Back to the topic of the original post.

What questions should be asked?

Please ask this one partially if there are a few 7-year-old little girl Christians around.

“Why did God have to kill all the puppies and kittens in the flood, didn’t drowning make them afraid? (said with a real innocent voice)

OR
“The ark would have taken a hundred or more years to build and would have taken an army of carpenters and shipwrights to build, does this mean that God knew in advance that their children would be drowned in the flood even before they were conceived, or had a chance to choose to be good or evil?

 

[Robster FCD]

Robster, I hope you update this thread with how everything turns out (no sugar coating or hyperbole, please ). I'm really curious.

You bet. I'm clearing the memory on my camera, and you can follow the festivities on twitter using the hashtag #creozerg

We are up to 285 people, or 2.85 hordes. Somebody mentioned that it had been mentioned on the Colbert Report. Oh my.

 

[Robster FCD]

No, it looks like Colbert was only talking about the Hovind Park. Oh well.

 

[Towlie]

You bet.

No more bets. The betting window has closed and the race has started. Hang on to your tickets.

 

[bokonon]

So far, looks like a couple of people were ejected, but no riots.

 

[RobRoy]

“The ark would have taken a hundred or more years to build and would have taken an army of carpenters and shipwrights to build, does this mean that God knew in advance that their children would be drowned in the flood even before they were conceived, or had a chance to choose to be good or evil?

We'll have to call it: early quantum state phenomenon. Only way to fit five thousand species of mammal on the same boat.

I'm all for going. My interest in what the YEC museum holds has been piqued since I first heard about it. Not in a confrontational mode, or any need to go out of my way to see it, but if I lived close enough, I would like to stop in and see what they had going on there.

I was born and grew up in Salt Lake City and toured Temple Square a number of times, seeing their exhibits on the LDS version of pre-Columbian history. Always fascinated me, and this does too.

I'm interested in hearing a report when they get back.

 

[Monketi Ghost]

Back to the topic of the original post.

What questions should be asked?

Please ask this one partially if there are a few 7-year-old little girl Christians around.

Don't be a jerk.

“Why did God have to kill all the puppies and kittens in the flood, didn’t drowning make them afraid? (said with a real innocent voice)

Don't be a jerk.

OR
“The ark would have taken a hundred or more years to build and would have taken an army of carpenters and shipwrights to build, does this mean that God knew in advance that their children would be drowned in the flood even before they were conceived, or had a chance to choose to be good or evil?

Making skeptics look like jerks.

 

[Robster FCD]

Back home from a wonderful day with my fellow atheists and skeptics.

Nothing happened. Everybody was on their best behavior, and a few people had to leave, put their shirts on inside out, then they could come back in. Both sides were polite to one another. We laughed at the place, which was the biggest post hoc rationalization in existence. It could have a post hoc event horizon! No light of reason escapes!

One guy, on his way out was apparently told to leave, details fuzzy, more later. Another person videotaped it, and for that, he had to leave as well. I think one of theirs (creationists, not staffers) was rude to PZ and was kicked out, too. Pretty uneventful, no jerkiness. I got two cool buttons out of it and made great contacts.

The "museum" was actually very enjoyable, thanks to the company. The "mob" of atheists I was with was very interested in just talking about what was wrong with the exhibits, and I helped explain the biology and chemistry mistakes (and actually a couple physics goofs, too). It was kind of fun. But I wouldn't go there again. PZ apologized to me when I said that if it wasn't for this event, I wouldn't have been there. Heh.

Lots of pics to put up. I'll post an album and put the link up later tonight.

Did they come away with a good view of us? Who knows? Did we come away of a good view of them? Honestly, I only felt pity for the Ham's bunch, but there were a couple moments of rage as parents took little kids past images of genocide and warfare, quizzing the kids on it. It wasn't just explaining why the pics were there, but making sure that they understood how much their loving god hated humanity.

gloat Neener neener neener /gloat

 

[sasquatchx]

Geez, very precious aren't they. Polar opposite of how the scientific community operates.