Message from a Truther

[Hokulele]

I never took a structural engineering course in my life.

I never would have guessed.

 

[bill smith]

I suspect bill is setting us up for a no-plane silliness.

Watch the video and explain what I say or hold your peace.

 

[Grizzly Bear]

I as just checking out that PBS video again. What a laugh. Is this real video or manipulated video?
<snip>
Then at about 4 seconds when the pane is about to enter the building freeze it.

What the hell? I've seen some paranoia but holy ****'ing christ man...

bill, that's "freezing" is an artifact of imperfections in the video upload. I have the original DVD to compare with... This is as bad as the guy who thought the file quality in JPEG image compression was an artifact of manipulation... Although with your recent Judy Wood incursion I'm not sure why I'm shocked you went deeper into the rabbit hole...

First the late arrival of the plane at the very beginning of the video.

Say what?

 

[bill smith]

haven't watched and don't have time right now, but I fail to see how anything to do with the aircraft will adress the question I asked about the method of collapse.




Actually I have never said that the top section slid bill. I said that the TM video it shows a top section that had slid. It did not do so.

I said that the columns failed and the upper section then began its downward movement.
When the aircraft hit it damaged and in some cases severed columns both on the perimeter and in the core. The impact also removed much of the fire insulation from structural members, crushed floor pans in local areas and sent fuel throughout several floors which then ignited and started large area office fires on multiple floors. The heat built up and weakened other columns of this already badly damaged structure. The combination of the isults to the structure caused an almost continuous redistribution of loads aided by the hat truss which held the upper section together as well. If not for the hat truss it is quite possible that the section of the upper floors above the impact hole might have sheared off. It remained though.
As more columns crept down as they sagged under the load this redistribution continued. We have the photos of the inward bowing perimeter columns that illustrates that the structure was sagging down. Obviously this cannot occur without the core being involved. At a point in time just prior to initial collapse the redistribution sends more load to a column(s) that are already at their absolute limit, they then buckle causeing another redistribution that also simply cannot be handled and this quickly progresses and the upper section moves in the way gravity acts - downward.



Their lateral bracing IS the floor trusses which are simply not designed to handle the load of the mass impacting them. They fail. No lateral bracing to those 47 columns and it matter not how good a foundation a long column has, if it exceeds a certain length to width ratio it cannot support itself against buckling much less do so while being banged about by tons of falling steel and concrete.

The falling upper section is NOt impinging its load on those columns when it starts falling bill. That's what happens when a column fails.



That doc did not refer to a massive largely remaing core bill. At least not the part you linked to.
However I do note that the roofline is seen to move downward and the core is not seen spearing up through it so we do know that the core did fail.

Well like I said I don't want to get to much into WTC2 at this time. As regards the lateral bracing of the core check out the graphic overlay in the video below. Do you see lateral bacing beams that are not trusses ?
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1615521411849861778 Short version

 

[bill smith]

What the hell? I've seen some paranoia but holy ****'ing christ man...

bill, that's "freezing" is an artifact of imperfections in the video upload. I have the original DVD to compare with... This is as bad as the guy who thought the file quality in JPEG image compression was an artifact of manipulation... Although with your recent Judy Wood incursion I'm not sure why I'm shocked you went deeper into the rabbit hole...


Say what?

Are you talking about the plane-shaped 'imperfection' ? lol
What about the nose crashing through the other side intact ?

PS. What Judy Wood incursion re you talking about ?. I only talked about the giant hurricane bigger than Katrina that was off the coast of New York on 9/11...

 

[FineWine]

This is the stuff I find hilarious.

I never took a structural engineering course in my life. I spent two weeks thinking about the destruction of those buildings. I decided there was no way NORMAL AIRLINERS could do all of that in less than two hours.

This is the stuff your intellectual and moral superiors find hilarious.

.
How can the 14 lightest stories crush 95 heavier stories and accelerate in the process?

Fourteen floors crush ONE floor very quickly. Then fifteen floors crush ONE floor... It is very obvious that you never took a structural engineering course in your entire life.

.
Why weren't EXPERTS all over this crap within a few months after the event? I can possibly understand architects not seeing through it. At IIT the standard joke was that "architects took funny physics and funny math." But even though physics majors may not study skyscrapers they should have been wondering about the distribution of mass after seeing the videos of 9/11.

This just needs to be kept complicated and mysterious so the LAYMEN can't figure out the obvious.

psik

When will you get around to explaining why no physicists agree with you? You claim to know more than every physicist and engineer in the world. How did you learn it? Why are you laughed off as a buffoonishly arrogant know-nothing? Is the world envious of your genius? Show an example of your genius.

 

[FineWine]

Are you talking about the plane-shaped 'imperfection' ? lol
What about the nose crashing throuh the other side intact ?

PS. What Judy Wood incursion re you talking about ?. I only talked abut the giant hurricane bigger tha Katrina that was off the coast of New York on 9/11...

Has your illness progressed to no-planeritis? The hopelessly deranged Ace Baker tried his "Pinocchio's Nose" deception in his debate with Steve Wright. He was exposed as an idiot. Nobody thinks the nose of the plane survived. Debris being ejected from side of the building opposite the crash would necessarily assume a projectile shape.

 

[jaydeehess]

Well like I said I don't want to get to much into WTC2 at this time. As regards the lateral bracing of the core check out the graphic overlay in the video below. Do you see lateral bacing that are not trusses ?
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1615521411849861778 Short version

Well then you need to be more specfic when you foray into structural engineering bill.

Yes the core columns were laterally braced to them selves BUT the trusses were required to brace the core itself. The core system and the perimeter system braced each other via the trusses. Neither could stand alone.

had the entire floor systems and perimeter columns magically disappeared leaving only the core column system with its floors and beams intact this core structure would have been inherently unstable and would have buckled on its own. This is why when the building was constructed they built the core up above the rest of the structure only so far AND included temporary diagonal bracing that was removed as they progressed upward.

 

[bill smith]

Has your illness progressed to no-planeritis? The hopelessly deranged Ace Baker tried his "Pinocchio's Nose" deception in his debate with Steve Wright. He was exposed as an idiot. Nobody thinks the nose of the plane survived. Debris being ejected from side of the building opposite the crash would necessarily assume a projectile shape.

Kind of plane-nose-shaped ypu mean no doubt. lol

What is mere massive steel against such such strength.

http://nomoregames.net/presentations/Madison_No_Planes_Final_August_07.ppt_files/slide0045_image034 Nose Cone

 

[jaydeehess]

Watch the video and explain what I say or hold your peace.

bingo I was right

Right bill, hundreds of people witnessed a plane hit the building , you know the one standing right next to the already burning building that had also been hit by a plane. They are all plants, in on it, or just plain incorrect, having been fooled into believing that a plane hit the building.

TPTB then manipulated each and every live video feed and camcorder that happened to be pointed in the direction of the towers into showing a plane hitting the building.

Man, when I begin thinking that the CiT are all nutbars all I really need to do to make them look better is to bring up a post by a WTC no-planer. The CiT no plane senario gets trumped by the no planes at all senario

 

[bill smith]

Well then you need to be more specfic when you foray into structural engineering bill.

Yes the core columns were laterally braced to them selves BUT the trusses were required to brace the core itself. The core system and the perimeter system braced each other via the trusses. Neither could stand alone.

had the entire floor systems and perimeter columns magically disappeared leaving only the core column system with its floors and beams intact this core structure would have been inherently unstable and would have buckled on its own. This is why when the building was constructed they built the core up above the rest of the structure only so far AND included temporary diagonal bracing that was removed as they progressed upward.

Well personally I would go for the intrinsic strengh of the core by libarally bracing it. But if people are happy to believe in your core braced only by floor trusses that is up to them. We will not know for sure until NIST allows examination of the blueprints of WTC2.

 

[FineWine]

Kind of plane-nose-shaped ypu mean no doubt. lol

What is mere massive steel against such such strength.

http://nomoregames.net/presentations/Madison_No_Planes_Final_August_07.ppt_files/slide0045_image034 Nose Cone

The nose of a plane is shaped like a projectile for a reason, Bill. Steve Wright showed Ace Baker why his mad fantasy was wrong. Many people on this forum with backgrounds in video showed the lunatic Baker why he was wrong.

Ryan Mackey explained in a three-part lecture how a 100-ton plane traveling roughly 500 mph cuts through steel columns and glass windows.

Your compulsion to make a complete fool of yourself is out of hand.

 

[bill smith]

bingo I was right

Right bill, hundreds of people witnessed a plane hit the building , you know the one standing right next to the already burning building that had also been hit by a plane. They are all plants, in on it, or just plain incorrect, having been fooled into believing that a plane hit the building.

TPTB then manipulated each and every live video feed and camcorder that happened to be pointed in the direction of the towers into showing a plane hitting the building.

Man, when I begin thinking that the CiT are all nutbars all I really need to do to make them look better is to bring up a post by a WTC no-planer. The CiT no plane senario gets trumped by the no planes at all senario

Well then you will be able to explain the anomalies I pointed out ? I do hope it's not going to be 'optical illusion' again.

 

[FineWine]

Well then you will be able to explain the anomalies I pointed out ? I do hope it's not going to be 'optical illuson' again.

You haven't pointed out any anomalies, Bill. You're merely raving. It's what you do.

 

[bill smith]

The nose of a plane is shaped like a projectile for a reason, Bill. Steve Wright showed Ace Baker why his mad fantasy was wrong. Many people on this forum with backgrounds in video showed the lunatic Baker why he was wrong.

Ryan Mackey explained in a three-part lecture how a 100-ton plane traveling roughly 500 mph cuts through steel columns and glass windows.

Your compulsion to make a complete fool of yourself is out of hand.

I think RM talked about 'high-pressure water cutting steel' as some kind of example. I didn't pay too much attention after that.

 

[BigAl]

Well then you will be able to explain the anomalies I pointed out ? I do hope it's not going to be 'optical illusion' again.

Where did the plane go to, Bill?

 

[BigAl]

I think RM talked about 'high-pressure water cutting steel' as some kind of example. I didn't pay too much attention after that.

We have an excellent video that shows how the impact of the plane broke exterior beams at the joints.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhKrirlTw8c (6:46)​

 

[The Big Dog]

.
I never took a structural engineering course in my life. But even though physics majors may not study skyscrapers they should have been wondering about the distribution of mass after seeing the videos of 9/11.

This just needs to be kept complicated and mysterious so the LAYMEN can't figure out the obvious.

psik

I think we found your bot folks.

 

[FineWine]

I think RM talked about 'high-pressure water cutting steel' as some kind of example. I didn't pay too much attention after that.

So your admitted stupidity deprived you of another opportunity to learn something. Of course, high-pressure water can cut steel, but you don't care. Mackey delivered a lecture on physics, a subject about which your level of knowledge would have to rise in order to be abysmal. Your empty-headed smugness about your own lack of intellectual curiosity provides some good laughs, but one wonders why you feel that making a fool of yourself advances your insane cause. Clearly, you haven't the slightest idea of how a plane can enter a building (or, for that matter, how a hand can break a brick). Your refusal to learn tells us a great deal. Perhaps you think that the NASA engineer is not qualified to explain why flakes of paint traveling at 10,000 mph can damage a space shuttle.

 

[DavidJames]

This may be an observation ultimately destined for AAH, but...I believe the Truther presence in this forum has just about reached rock bottom. Granted, even in its heyday it was never exactly Einsteinian level. But at least it was interesting enough once in a while to provoke a little response -- humor, irritation, maybe even a quick Google or two to check out a point.

Bravo