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Message from a Truther

This video will show you the observed events & analysis.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVqNouxDcfY

Except it clearly does not show what was observed.

The graphics show an upper section that is rotating AND sliding sideways. The upper section never slid sideways. It pivoted along a line approximatly through the center of the structure as it leaned. When collapse initiated that rotational momentm would now be about the center of mass of the upper section and the section would also start falling stright down. That is to say it never had any horizontal motion (as depicted in the video) at all. Given that the bulk of the upper section was never beyond the footprint of the structure and given that gravity is the only force working on this falling mass the bulk(90%+) of the upper section mass is headed for the lower part of the building and not to one side of the structure.

Furthermore, given that the columns are obviously bent( the upper section is leaning significantly) when the columns do fail they will either bend further or snap. Now if the tower's roof line was 20 beyond the side of the lower section as it leaned this , as I said, means that the great bulk of the mass of the upper section is still over the lower section BUT the force on that mass is not being transmitted through the centeral axis of any column and when the column fails that force will simply not impinge on the lower section of that failed column. In other words, when collapse initiates the columns are no longer in line. What route then does the force and energy available then take? It impinges upon the floor pans obviously. A floorspace is constructed such that it will transfer its force due to its mass to the trusses and from truss to truss seats and thus to the columns. These members are designed to handle the forces generated by ONE basically static floorspace but we now have a very dynamic force with the mass of 10 or so floors and their associated column sections being applied to the trusses and truss seats and just as a cardboard box succumbs with little resistance to the weight of a person jumping on it, so too does the truss and seats. Now one has the mass of this newly demolished floor to add to that of the upper section)minus the relatively small amount of debris that heads off to the sides.

In fact the very fact that debris is moving outward(nothing ever goes up despite the characterisations by the TM) illustrates that the building is not in free fall. So too does the fact that the debris ejected from upper levels reachs the ground before the collapse zone.
In fact in order for the building to have been in free fall all columns on every floor would have to have failed at the same time, and in true CD's little or no debris is ejected despite hundreds or even thousands of pounds of high explosives being loaded into them.
Again on the 2.25 seconds he writes;
When a body is FREEfalling, 100% of the energy held in the body as gravitational potential energy is being converted into kinetic energy (the energy of motion). There is literally zero energy left over to do any work (the work required to bend/buckle/snap the 1000s of tones of structural steel).
You cannot have it both ways. You cannot have FREEfall AND have the building bend/buckle/snap everything in its path. Again, not incredulous, just pure scientifically impossible.

This is IF there is any structure being bend, buckled, or snapped during that time, by the part of the structure that is visible to observers at that time. He assumes that this is so. He assumes that all there is to what is occuring is what is observable in the videos.


2.25 seconds of free fall of WTC 7; Seismic data illustrates that the building was collapsing internally and externally for a total of approx 18 seconds. IIRC NIST states that during that 2.25 seconds the north wall is seen to be in essentially free fall. That is to say that as far as it is measurable that the material was falling at an acelleration of 1 g. Given that by this time there was no internal structure left and that the internal damage would have spread at ground level, as internal debris hit the ground, it would not be suprising to have had the lower portions of the exterior columns knocked out at ground level which would put the north wall into a free fall situation.


Notice the column thats been sprayed with white foam it is crisp, clean & undamaged except for maybe a crack near the top................
.........What you see in this picture is a crisp, undamaged column that does not appear to have suffered the steel-slicing force of an aluminium wing. To my eye, it looks like a crisp undamaged column with sharp, undamaged edges (with a box around it saying Hole made by right wing.)

What he is showing is a picture of a column in which the camera is far enough away to obscure details and which is covered in FF'ing foam so his comment that it is crisp and undamaged is patently ridiculous. Due to the foam and the camera placement we cannot ascertain from this photo whether or not a chunk is missing from this column, or if it is cracked along its length, or leaning away from the camera. It is also near the far end of where the starboard wing impacted and one notices that the column to the left is quite substantially damaged(where the wing is heavier. Furthermore the aircraft impact banked slightly to port putting the outer portion of the starboard wing higher on the column than the portion of the wing more inboard of that. He actually mentions that the column he is qquestioning has a crack along the top, where the wing section would have been.

Next we notice that the entire front wall for approx 90 to 100 feet is missing. The bricks and concrete for this wall is not seen on the area in front o the Pentagon so it must be inside. This illustrates that whatever force did this deed it acted on the outside of the wall, not from inside towards the outside. This means it was not a bomb inside the Pentagon nor was it a missile that penetrated the wall then blew up inside. This is also obvious in that there are no exterior walls between the 100 foot wide entrance damage and the 10 foot wide exit damage and so any large explosive going off inside that space should have affected the rear wall and the front wall very similarly and it did not. The debris of the much smaller exit hole is all lieing there outside the structure. This again illustrates that it was a force that acted along a line and in a direction from, front wall to back wall.

There was a large generator on site. It was damaged, banged by something that caused the entire generator to move in a direction towards the building. Again illustrating that there was not a force acted from inside the front wall to the outside.

Where are these apartments and bridges? I really need to know in order to plan to never be in/on them. Its possible that he builds well but it does not bode well for him , his complete mischaracterization of events.
 
"The rest of the evidence put forward by 1000s of whistleblowers & experts supports the physical evidence Nanothermite found in the WTC dust. I know its just paint right? The editor of the Open Physics journal resigned Ive heard it all. But what you must remember is that this paper has been OPEN PEER REVIEWED. Which means it is OPEN for any debunker to peer review it and fault the science involved."

Uh, that ain't what an open journal even means. But any way, there is a thread here demonstrating why Jones and the boys are a bunch of frauds.

If Jones and the boys want us to study their samples, by all means, tell them to send us the samples. Until then, "concerned shill" don't waste our time.
 
I have a PhD in "The Collapse of structures greater than 300 feet in height". My thesis took 2 years to finish after I got my Masters in "Thermite and other Exothermic Chemicals, and their effects on structural steel". This I obtained over a 1.5 year period after I obtained a Science Degree with a major in applied physics.

TAM;)

We should co-write a paper , I too have the same degrees and bric-a-brac.:D

,,, and my wife is Morgan Fairchild,,, yeah, yeah that's the ticket.
 
We should co-write a paper , I too have the same degrees and bric-a-brac.:D

,,, and my wife is Morgan Fairchild,,, yeah, yeah that's the ticket.

Well she was my first wife, and then I left her. Now I am married to Jennifer Lopez, while secretly dating Selma Heyak.

TAM:D
 
He got his degrees in Engineering at the same univesity where Jenny McCarthy got her M.D.
 
Hi all, I've been trying to encourage this gentleman to visit Gravy's website and do some research regarding the tipping tower top mystery, but he doesn't seem very interested.

Here's what he says about himself and the main ideas he presents:


'I have a degree in Civil/Structural engineering with advanced qualifications in structural analysis, stress analysis & structural steel design.

More so than that, I have a deep understanding of applied physics. To be honest, it's not as complicated as you might think.
.............
.....AE[/B][/I]

I thought I had seen this somewhere before but the guy I had in mind put it a different way. He said:
Look, Mr. jaydeehess, I am a professional engineer. I've had umpteen math, science, physics, thermodynamics, chemistry, materials science plus mechanical, chemical, electrical, nuclear and computer engineering classes, plus decades of experience in practice, not to mention 6 years experience as a nuclear engineer and 15 years as a computer scientist. I know what I am talking about. You do not. And that is my professional opinion.

I have my doubts about both guys
 
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Well she was my first wife, and then I left her. Now I am married to Jennifer Lopez, while secretly dating Selma Heyak.

TAM:D

I had to give up dating when the CIA had my brain installed in a machine and forced me to debunk 911 conspiracy theories all day long.
,, how is Jenny from the block now. Tell her I miss our afternoon delights.:D
 
If he's looking for people, every single engineer in my firm (we do architectural engineering: buildings) think the 9/11 conspiracy theories are bunk.

There's twelve right there.

But jeebus, this guy is a pentagon no-planer.

I thought it was a fantastic letter. Honest, heartfelt and right on the money. Personallly I would say that this guy educates and converts every which way he turns. And qualified down to the bone by the looks of it. let's hope he shows up here.
 
I thought it was a fantastic letter. Honest, heartfelt and right on the money. Personallly I would say that this guy educates and converts every which way he turns. And qualified down to the bone by the looks of it. let's hope he shows up here.

Oh, come on bill, you wouldn't just be saying that because the guy is telling you what you want to hear, would you? Oh, I know you would NEVER do that, would you bill?
 
I thought it was a fantastic letter. Honest, heartfelt and right on the money. Personallly I would say that this guy educates and converts every which way he turns. And qualified down to the bone by the looks of it. let's hope he shows up here.

See post #20 and #23 bill. He is far from 'on the money'.

But then physics and math have never been your long suit.
 
In case that guy shows up I would like to make these clips available to him. What he says about a tipping body exerting an asymmetrical force is of course 100% accurate.Any fool can see that much. But does he have any possible explanation for how so much of the core of WTC2 could have remained standing while still permitting the tilt to halt and be converted instantly into a directly downwards direction THROUGH all this steel ? Even though there is a graphic overlay for a second or two of what the core would have looked like intact it is also plain that he ACTUAL remaining core was not that much less intact than the overlay.
Does he have any comment ?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1615521411849861778 Short version
http://images.google.nl/imgres?imgu...q=core+wtc2&gbv=2&ndsp=20&hl=en&sa=N&start=60 longer version

PS. For the second video scroll down to the clip entitled 'WTC2 core took 30 seconds to collapse'.
 
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First, this truther would like people to believe he is an engineer, as well as a mature, serious, and
professional individual. He then turns around and drops a bunch of typical juvenile truther insults.

Actual professionals dealing with such serious subjects as 9/11 don't need to use arrogant
smart-mouthed insults to make their point and prove that their research is indeed legitimate.

L.
 
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I call BS on him being any sort of engineer.
(snip)

Seconded.

Also, the OBSERVED events show that as the upper floors fell, the debris is visibly seen being propelled UPWARDS and outwards.

1235879L.gif
 
In case that guy shows up I would like to make these clips available to him. What he says about a tipping body exerting an asymmetrical force is of course 100% accurate.Any fool can see that much. But does he have any possible explanation for how so much of the core of WTC2 could have remained standing while still permitting the tilt to halt and be converted instantly into a directly downwards direction THROUGH all this steel ? Even though there is a graphic overlay for a second or two of what the core would have looked like intact it is also plain that he ACTUAL remaining core was not that much less intact than the overlay.
Does he have any comment ?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1615521411849861778 Short version
http://images.google.nl/imgres?imgu...q=core+wtc2&gbv=2&ndsp=20&hl=en&sa=N&start=60 longer version

bill, bill, bill, you know what a 2X4 is right?

Take one and stand it upright on a second one. You will of course have to hold them there. Now, while holding the lower one steady allow the top one to tip over. Is it moving sideways along the top of the lower one? No, it is not. It is pivoting along the edge towards its lean. That is not what is shown in the graphics in the youtube vid. That graphic shows a top section that is sliding.

Next align the lumber again and now , just as the upper one begins to rotate (i.e. its top is not completely out of line with the lower 2X4) quickly kick the lower 2X4 out and note where the upper one falls. Directly on the spot where the other one was! gravity acts downward and once allowed to fall that stick of lumber fell straight down even if it was not completely vertical as it did so. The small amount of rotational momentum it had obtained as it tilted on top of the other one would have instantly converted to rotating it about its center of mass but even that rotation would be slow and it therefore barely rotates any more before it hits the ground.

Same goes for the upper tower section. It had tilted and had some rotational momentum but as soon as the columns that made up its pivot failed (some under compression, some under tension) it no longer could rotate by pivoting on its base. It could only rotate about its center of mass. That center of mass and indeed the great bulk of the mass and volume of the upper section was still over the lower part of the tower and gravity sent that straight down. It cannot send it sideways. The mass was impacting the floors space of the lower section, not the columns which are designed to take huge vertical loads, thus the floors fail, after this occurs over 4 or 5 floors the columns have lost so much lateral bracing and are being buffeted by the falling debris and they too cannot remain standing.

The interior of the structure fails as debris collapsed floor after floor some of this debris outpacing the destruction of the perimeter column system. The collapse zone probably widened and encompassed a dozen floors with very large dense objects like elevator motors, transformers, and air conditioning units punching through floors ahead of the exterior collapse.

A small portion of the interior core survived the collapse but it was far too unstable to remain standing on its own and it buckled and fell.

Clear now?
 
This is very very simple physics. Please watch "9/11 - blueprint for truth". Or 9/11 revisited. (by an MIT engineer)'

An MIT electrical engineer who went into medicine.

Unfortunately, years & years of studying Newtons laws were getting in the way. No matter how hard I looked, and how much I WANTED the official theory to be true it isnt (unless you suspend the laws of physics that is).

This is another oddity about his story; he talks about how much studying he did.

Also, the OBSERVED events show that as the upper floors fell, the debris is visibly seen being propelled UPWARDS and outwards. This is 100% impossible due to gravity alone as you mentioned, gravity acts DOWNWARDS. There is literally no force to expel tones of structural steel UPWARDS (anything above the horizontal). Gravity acts downwards always without exception. There is no mechanism in a gravitational collapse to hurl debris UPWARDS. This video will show you the observed events & analysis.

That is so stupid, I can't believe even a troofer would buy it. When you look at videos of the collapse you do not see any debris being propelled upwards at all. That is simply an artifact of still images, which due to dust trails and smoke appear to indicate that had happened above where the photo is taken. But look at a video and you will not see anything going upwards except some airborne dust.
 
I always wish I could offer better analysis of the structural stuff, but not enough to go and learn it step by step. But this whole 'force must be uniform to crush things' don't sound right.

The BS flag indeed should go up here, did for me in the first sentences. EVEN if he's a engineer Never trust someone who says "I am total expert, trust me, and a total paranoid rationalist who AT FIRST believed the government story, but then I looked at the science..."

I am an actual paranoid type at heart, and trust me, it works the opposite direction from that. I started out suspicious, then got twoofy, then looked at the science and came back around to the "official story". It's possible for someone to do it the other way, but not as often as "Truthers' present it as their own stories. Calculated bogusness.

You could say the "expert at first believing the gov story" part makes sense, and then just question what the hell went wrong afterwards.

Let your friend know you don't buy it
 
First step, validate:

"I am a Civil/Structural engineer with advanced qualifications in Structural analysis, stress analysis & structural steel design. I have 6 years of experience in building high-rise structures . My most recent project (completed just 2 days ago) was building 4 concrete bridge replacements."

Can they provide names, qualifications, educational institutions, dates and structures to support their supposed professional expertise? Otherwise, "building 4 concrete bridge replacements" simply equates to a shovel-jockey mixing cement.
 
...Im not a nut, kook or conspiracy theorist. Im not mad, mental or insane...

This is the first of his claims with which I heartily disagree. Either that, or he's simply a liar.

I hate to be so blunt about it, but really, is there any other way to describe him? I mean, he even buys into the "no plane" stuff, which is too crazy for even "mainstream" Truthers. No rational person would possibly believe this. So if he's rational, he's not being truthful. And if he's truthful, he's not being rational.
 

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