Debunker says what?

Why not both planes and explosives? Who ever thought before 9/11 that a plane could globally collapse the WTC? Explosives don't make the planes and initial fires disappear. Did al-qaeda in your story even expect as much from just the planes? How about the designers of the WTC before 9/11? Did they somewhere claim that a plane could knock down a tower? Did anyone ever predict before 9/11 that just a plane could do the job?

Anyway I'm glad we got one thing straight in this thread.

It's not just TONS and TONS of explosives with months of setup that can knock down a skyscraper. Other ways are possible too. Even according to the debunkers.

Are we done?

Now according to the newly revealed investigation pointed out in the OP, could it have been possible to get explosive devices and/or incendiaries inside the towers before 9/11?

Yes or no?


You are making splendid progress. We have established that two of the world's tallest skyscrapers could be brought down by means other than controlled demolition. An ICBM with a nuclear warhead could do the job, for instance, as would heavy conventional bombing by B-52s. Fully-fueled commercial airliners crashing into the buildings, we have learned, would damage support columns, and the resultant fires would weaken structural steel, causing eventual collapse. So, let us all agree that controlled demolition, a method that would require teams of professionals placing tons of shaped charges over a period of months, is just one way of bringing down tall buildings.

"We" are not done, but you are quite done.


No, it would not have been possible to smuggle in tons of explosives without anyone noticing (let us know when you get tired of hearing this).
 
No--emphatically NO: it would have been utterly impossible for demolition crews to bring in tons of explosives and place them without many people noticing.

Please stop this idiocy.
Actually, I would say that yes you could get an explosive device inside the WTC without anyone noticing. However, to install said device in a place that would cause the cutting of columns is another matter.
 
Actually, I would say that yes you could get an explosive device inside the WTC without anyone noticing. However, to install said device in a place that would cause the cutting of columns is another matter.

This is a fair description of the 1993 WTC bombing. A truck with about 1,000 pounds of explosive made a mess but caused no immediate structural damage to a tower.

Assuming that properly placed, such a bomb would cut one core beam (A big assumption), there are 45(?) to go and I'm sure that most of the beams are not accessible by simply parking a truck and that is only one tower and doesn't explain WTC7, anyway.

In any case, a collapse caused by destroying the core beams would look nothing like what happened on 9/11 and there is this little detail of nobody hearing any demolition bombs go off.
 
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Well now...

What have we learned about debunkers and what they believe about 9/11?

There are three ways a steel structured high rise can globally collapse.

1) A steel structured high rise needs to be prepared and wired for months ahead of time by teams of professionals with tons of high grade explosives on every floor near structural supports for global collapse to occur. This is the tried and true traditional way.

or...

2) A steel structured high rise just needs to suffer random explosive damaged and random building content fire to a small percentage of the building near the top for it to globally collapse in less than an hour. This almost seems to be the most efficient according to debunkers. That is until you read the spiffy new option three.

3) These days a steel structured high needs only random building content fire and it will cause global collapse from thermal expansion. Takes a few hours longer than option two but it still drops just like option one according to debunkers. This thermal expansion excuse for the collapse of a steel structured high rise is the newest rage amongst the debunker crowd. Apparently debunkers are very fickle and trendy.

The only other requirement I can tell debunkers have is that it helps if it is 9/11/01. Special unreal first time in history things were possible on that day. It's almost like it was a religious experience for them. The miracles just get more elaborate and magical with time.

What doesn't work for debunkers? Anything that might imply an inside job in even the slightest way. Even any of the above options only work for debunkers if the right people are behind it.

It really helps for debunkers if the right people are mysterious (in a foreign way (brown)), small in number, and invisible after the fact.

Thanks for sharing debunkers.


Oh, you forgot something else that helps sane people, aka "debunkers"--if the right people declare war on America and attack American interests with increasing ferocity for over a decade, it certainly does bolster the evidence-based case the debunkers make.

To pretend that the Islamists have been invisible after the attacks of 9/11 is breathtakingly stupid and astonishingly insane even by the standards (shared only by the likes of roundhead, Heiwa, Bill Smith, 9-11 Investigator, Ace Baker, and Christopher7) of Homeland Insurgency. We're really hitting rock bottom here.
 
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Actually, I would say that yes you could get an explosive device inside the WTC without anyone noticing. However, to install said device in a place that would cause the cutting of columns is another matter.


Please don't play HI's lunatic game. Getting an explosive device, or two, or three, past the dogs doesn't solve the problem of bringing down the towers. To accomplish that feat, teams of demoltion workers need to place tons of charges.
 
And Jet fuel can cut steel columns or was it the building content fire? Thermal expansion?

So it was RDX or HDX that cause the collapses? Really?

Genius?

lol


What does a dishonest fool who has been beaten to a pulp and humiliated have to laugh about?

What steel columns, other than the ones actually hit by the planes, were "cut"? Who says columns were "cut"? Are you pretending that the inward bowing of the external columns, observable on EVERY video, didn't occur?

What caused the collapses? Oh, I don't know. NIST published over 10,000 pages answering the question. Will you ever get around to looking at any of the information contained in those 10,000 pages? Why not?
 
Please don't play HI's lunatic game. Getting an explosive device, or two, or three, past the dogs doesn't solve the problem of bringing down the towers. To accomplish that feat, teams of demoltion workers need to place tons of charges.
That is true, but that's not his question. However, you are correct. Placing the explosives on the columns would require a lot of demo work to remove both drywall and fireproofing to expose the bare metal. Twoofers don't get this. They think that you just have to place a suitcase full of RDX by a wall and that will work. In the movie Valkyrie, it explains very well about how explosions will reflect off of hard surfaces.
 
I've had the feeling for some time now that they are moving towards some kind of admission that explosives were used in the WTC on 9/11. Not that they have any choice really what with all the powerful evidence that is gathering and slowly permeating society- mainstream media or no mainstream media..

Equally I have the strong impression that any admission will be coupled with the absolute insistance that Al-Quaeda was at the root of the explosives too. That's one of the reasons I find the article you post so interesting. It may be part of layng the groundwork for a statement that Al-Quaeda or their agents smuggled the explosives into the WTC.

It would be a high-risk strategy to be sure but there may be few other realistic choices for the perps.

A useful spinoff for the Truth Movement would be the fact that we would be instantly rehabillitated- heroes even.


Bill, the competition for the title of Dumbest "Truther" is keen. But HI's lead on this thread is just too wide for you to overcome.

The evidence for explosives anywhere in the WTC complex is nonexistent. Your insane movement has produced absolutely nothing. Your typically stupid lie about the "powerful evidence" that is obviously NOT gathering is a good example of your insatiable appetite for self-humiliation. But, as I said, this thread already has a winner. Go back to parroting Heiwa's idiocies.
 
That is true, but that's not his question. However, you are correct. Placing the explosives on the columns would require a lot of demo work to remove both drywall and fireproofing to expose the bare metal. Twoofers don't get this. They think that you just have to place a suitcase full of RDX by a wall and that will work. In the movie Valkyrie, it explains very well about how explosions will reflect off of hard surfaces.


Notice how these lying imbeciles have to twist themselves into knots to avoid bumping into the elephant in the parlor: the collapses obviously started from the impact floors.
 
It's funny--I start at the beginning of the thread and respond one-by-one to HI's stupidities. By the time I reach the end, the dishonest fool has run away and everything I've written is piled up in a heap of old letters: addressee unknown, return to sender.
Attempting to engage these mindless trolls is the ultimate waste of time.
 
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http://voices.washingtonpost.com/fe..._finds_major_security_flaws.html?hpid=topnews

“In the past year, investigators successfully smuggled bomb-making materials into ten high-security federal buildings, constructed bombs and walked around the buildings undetected”

Wow.

I bet they could have put more then 10 in just one building in a years time.
When?

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/ny-nyaler122362178sep12,0,1255660.story

Heightened Security Alert Had Just Been Lifted

By Curtis L. Taylor and Sean Gardiner | STAFF WRITERS
September 12, 2001

Daria Coard, 37, a guard at Tower One, said the security detail had been working 12-hour shifts for the past two weeks because of numerous phone threats. But on Thursday, bomb-sniffing dogs were abruptly removed.


I don't see what it maters either way. Especially in a case where guards even at federal buildings post 9/11 are found sleeping and people who just smuggled inside and constructed a bomb are walking around undetected.

Do the dogs work independently?

Hold on HI, did they smuggle your explosives into the towers over the course of a year(while the dogs were there) or in the few days when the dogs were not there?


Funny that. The penetration of building security in the official version did not involve accessing elevator shafts and attaching explosives to load bearing structures behind walls and out of the publicly available areas.

But the buildings still fell.

Right? :rolleyes:

In effect, yes the official story does indeed involve accessing elevator shafts and other areas not open to the public.
Fire does not respect "No Public Access" signs nor would the hundred tons of aircraft that hit the building at 450+ MPH.

tsk tsk

How many explosives were needed in your story? Reliable or not?

Excuse me? Explosives in the building is NOT any part of any debunker's 'story'? When CT's claim that explosives were used debunkers then point out what amount of explosives would be required to accomplish the task of bringing the towers down. Now go back and research the explosive equivalent of the aircraft's kintetic energy, and the multi floor fires.

Why would they need to in full view of anyone? They said they constructed the bombs and walked away undetected.

new or no?

Because there was no evidence left of a lot of things after the WTC attacks. The black boxes were never found and more then 1,000 victims were never found. And who investigated for explosives evidence and how?

So how big a device were the ones smuggled in as part of the security tests HI? How effective would a bomb fitting that physical description (Volume and mass) be in cutting the columns of the towers? Do you suppose that all bombs are created equal?

What does the fact that the black boxes were not recovered have to do with any evidence that there were explosives in the towers? Do you suppose that the FDR/CVR recorded some evidence of bombs in the towers? :D



Fire? So everything you previously said is needed to take down a skyscraper isn't needed now?

Actually you really seem to be attempting to make 'bombs in the buildings' a debunker idea. It isn't. We simply try to assist the Ct's who make the claim in understanding that IF there were bombs that did the deed there would have to be a lot of them in place, they would not be quiet explosives, and to do the job they would HAVE to be placed ON the columns.

The truck bomb attack 10 years prior was supposed to have been placed so as to destroy the foundation wall. They could not get a parking spot where they wanted it and ended up having all that explosive power do little more than collapse several floors of the basement. But you seem to be saying that in a few days, a few guys could walk into the towers with enough explosives to cause columns to fail but that it would not really be neccessary to place these smallish bombs all that close to , let alone on, the columns in order to have this effect. furthermore they would have been all rigged together somehow(wirelessly I suppose) such that they would go off in sequence.
 
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Not to mention to facilitate the "faster than freefall" and "neatly in its own footprint" collapse Truthers imagine took place. But again, and I really can't stress this enough, we're dealing with an individual who believes Interpol is involved in America's plot to take over the world. To say that rational thought eludes him is like saying Michael Jackson hasn't been feeling too well lately.
Not to mention HI pulled the race card when discussing the performance of contructed facilities. That's how stupid he is. He pulls the race card when discussing building collapses and all anyone can do is shrug their shoulders and say "That's HI!"
 
Well now...

What have we learned about debunkers and what they believe about 9/11?

There are three ways a steel structured high rise can globally collapse.

1) A steel structured high rise needs to be prepared and wired for months ahead of time by teams of professionals with tons of high grade explosives on every floor near structural supports for global collapse to occur. This is the tried and true traditional way.

Well it does if you wish it to bring the building down with the relatively small amount of explosive force that would be generated by several tons of high explosive. It has to be directed where you want it to go.


2) A steel structured high rise just needs to suffer random explosive damaged and random building content fire to a small percentage of the building near the top for it to globally collapse in less than an hour. This almost seems to be the most efficient according to debunkers. That is until you read the spiffy new option three.

For MOST buildings this will not occur since they are not long span structures that concentrate all vertical members in a small core and along the perimeter thus contributing to a slowing of the progression of collpse and thus disallowing large parts of the structure that do fall to gain a great amount of momentum.

3) These days a steel structured high needs only random building content fire and it will cause global collapse from thermal expansion. Takes a few hours longer than option two but it still drops just like option one according to debunkers. This thermal expansion excuse for the collapse of a steel structured high rise is the newest rage amongst the debunker crowd. Apparently debunkers are very fickle and trendy.

Once again you ignore the details such as if a building has its floor beams symettrically placed then thermal expansion will not have the ability to push girders off their column seats.
Seems CT's are very lacking in the study of important details.

The only other requirement I can tell debunkers have is that it helps if it is 9/11/01. Special unreal first time in history things were possible on that day. It's almost like it was a religious experience for them. The miracles just get more elaborate and magical with time.

So when the shuttle broke up during descent was that on 9/11/01 too? I could swear that not all first time in history things occured on 9/11/01.



It really helps for debunkers if the right people are mysterious (in a foreign way (brown)), small in number, and invisible after the fact.

Very odd statement given that one oft stated canard of the CT crowd is that these same brown people, living in caves and what not, could not possibly have accomplished such a complex deed.
 
It's funny--I start at the beginning of the thread and respond one-by-one to HI's stupidities. By the time I reach the end, the dishonest fool has run away and everything I've written is piled up in a heap of old letters: addressee unknown, return to sender.
Attempting to engage these mindless trolls is the ultimate waste of time.

Given the utter fantasy that HI was pushing, that explosives in the building is a debunker notion, I assume he was just trolling.

He's pushing buttons and getting his jollies ( right handed or left handed ) when people get angry.
 
I just feel we are giving HI and Bill Smith way too much attention, they both lack the ability to use logic and reason and are left with delusions that are beyond repair. Anyone who can't even acknowledge through evidence presented that Flight 11 and 175 hit the towers, 77 hit the pentagon, and 93 crashed into Shanksville (a no-planer in my book), that thinks Interpol was involved in a 9/11 cover-up, is beyond help. I know they are fun to play with, but this is the attention they seek and enjoy.
 
It's probably better to just leave him on Ignore, but he's actually kind of entertaining.
 
Some people need to fight to avoid losing their minds.

The "one hour and no explosives" just happens to include the crash directly into the building of a fully-fueled 100-ton jet airliner moving at roughly 500 mph and the resultant extensive fires. Why do you incredibly silly frauds always act as though you really expect sane people to forget that little detail?

In the absence of such a devastating crash, yes, demolition professionals would require many tons of charges and months of prep work.


Oh stop with the jet fuel and 500 mph crap already. Don't you even know your own story?

http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/releases/wtc_latest_findings_1004.htm

Post-impact capabilities of the WTC towers assessed. Demand to capacity ratios—the calculations indicating whether or not structures can support the loads put on them—showed that for the floors affected by the aircraft impacts, the majority of the core and perimeter columns in both towers continued to carry their loads after the impact. The loads from damaged or severed columns were carried by nearby undamaged columns. Although the additional loads strained the load-bearing capabilities of the affected columns, the results show that the columns could have carried them. This shows that the towers withstood the initial aircraft impacts and that they would have remained standing indefinitely if not for another significant event such as the subsequent fires. NIST previously reported that the towers had significant reserve capacity after aircraft impact based on analysis of post-impact vibration data obtained from video evidence on WTC 2, the more severely damaged tower.


http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cach...+than+10+minutes.”+”&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

In the case of the towers, the jet fuel was unusual, but even there we talked about normal building fires since the jet fuel burned within a matter of a few minutes. What burned over the next hour to hour-and-a-half were normal fires where the combustibles were building contents plus the airplane contents
 

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