Split Thread O'Reilly, Olberman, and other left-vs-right commentators.

Here. I'll start. Find some Olbermann equivalent lunacy to these examples:

Easy. Keith Olbermann advocating the rub out of Hillary:

Howard Fineman suggests that some unnamed super superdelegate was going to have to find a way to persuade Hillary to drop out of the race, to which KO replied:

"Right. Somebody who can take her into a room and only he comes out."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGBUQq3CVYU
 
Looking quickly over Olbermann's guest list, I don't recognize most of the names and granted his show is totally different from O'Reilly's, but Olbermann has had the following conservative guests on:

Ashcroft, John

Ken Blackwell

Tony Blair

John Boehner

Pat Buchanan 9 times

Tucker Carlson

Alex Jones (since G-K-4 says Jones is not a liberal)

Not a very strong case.
 
Moving on past the thread clutter of the usual attacks on liberal posters like myself from the usual right wingers on JREF, .....

I thought I'd look a little closer at the supposed biases of the two stations much of the thread is focused on, MSNBC and Fox.

A Google search for murdoch admits fox is slanted easily gets documentation of this fact including a clip on Murdoch on a panel (World Economic Forum) being asked by Charlie Rose, "Rupert, is there any agenda that you want to shape?" The audience laughs as if to say, "D'uh."

First Murdoch says, No. Then he says "we don't have the power to change it" "you'd like to make a difference" then he goes on to say they tried to, they backed Bush's policies until Murdoch became disillusioned with how Bush executed the war.

Anyone here trying to make the ridiculous claim, Fox is not slanted news, has no credibility. Feel free to take a poll on that if you doubt my words.


But what about MSNBC? A similar Google search for MSNBC is slanted was not as specific as the Murdoch search, but it's no wonder given the fact GE owns MSNBC rather than an individual.

It did turn up the interesting attempt by O'Reilly to go after Olbermann last month at the GE shareholder's meeting. O'Reilly is relentless trying to attack his critics. He was obsessed with Al Franken for quite some time and now it's Olbermann who clearly gets O'Reilly's goat.

Politico; by Michael Calderone: GE execs questioned about MSNBC slant and Drama at GE shareholders meeting

O'Reilly and Olbermann both did a report on the meeting on their respective shows.


The comments on that first report claiming many in the audience were unhappy with MSNBC's liberal bias (I think Scarborough should feel a bit slighted by such a charge, BTW) made me wonder just who would be driving this slant other than a management decision to target a market audience?

SourceWatch doesn't have much on MSNBC other than to say it is owned by Microsoft and GE. Microsoft only owns 18%. So I looked up GE given that's the shareholder's meeting the staged O'Reilly producer confrontation occurred at. GE couldn't be more conservative. So how is it MSNBC is supposed to have a liberal bias?

FAIR reports on corporate ownership of NBC and while
Gartner wrote from experience: "For five years, I was president of NBC News, which is owned by General Electric," he said. "Not once did GE boss Jack Welch or anyone else at GE ask me to put something on the air--or not to.... Jack Welch, tough and some say ruthless, does not use NBC to further the gains of GE."
they go on to say
Gartner should recall the warning of the dean of American press criticism, George Seldes, who wrote in 1938: "The most stupid boast in the history of present-day journalism is that of the writer who says, 'I have never been given orders; I am free to do as I like.'"



So we have Fox News owned by a man who has publicly admitted slanting the news and MSNBC which is supposedly biased in the liberal direction but which is owned by a conservative minded corporation.

I'm not trying to say Olbermann and Maddow are not news programs with clearly liberal sentiments. But I find it hard to believe they'd be on if they were promoting liberal agendas with blatantly false information or dishonest tactics.

Fox, OTOH, has been the focus of exposes' from "OutFoxed - Rupert Murdoch's War on Journalism" to this one from FAIR in 2001, "The Most Biased Name in News - Fox News Channel's extraordinary right-wing tilt".

The right wingers can whine all they want about the fact MSNBC has programming that targets a liberal market audience. It's like complaining there are dramas on in prime time when you like sitcoms. But it has no bearing on the quality of those programs. The quality isn't missing from Fox just because they target a conservative market. It's because they do it with the intent of manipulating the audience's political views.

All the programs are on with a degree of entertainment. But on Fox there is the added matter of the entertainers being able and even encouraged to totally distort the facts without impunity.
 
Moving on past the thread clutter of the usual attacks on liberal posters like myself from the usual right wingers on JREF, .....

I thought I'd look a little closer at the supposed biases of the two stations much of the thread is focused on, MSNBC and Fox.

A Google search for murdoch admits fox is slanted easily gets documentation of this fact including a clip on Murdoch on a panel (World Economic Forum) being asked by Charlie Rose, "Rupert, is there any agenda that you want to shape?" The audience laughs as if to say, "D'uh."

First Murdoch says, No. Then he says "we don't have the power to change it" "you'd like to make a difference" then he goes on to say they tried to, they backed Bush's policies until Murdoch became disillusioned with how Bush executed the war.

Anyone here trying to make the ridiculous claim, Fox is not slanted news, has no credibility. Feel free to take a poll on that if you doubt my words.


But what about MSNBC? A similar Google search for MSNBC is slanted was not as specific as the Murdoch search, but it's no wonder given the fact GE owns MSNBC rather than an individual.

It did turn up the interesting attempt by O'Reilly to go after Olbermann last month at the GE shareholder's meeting. O'Reilly is relentless trying to attack his critics. He was obsessed with Al Franken for quite some time and now it's Olbermann who clearly gets O'Reilly's goat.

Politico; by Michael Calderone: GE execs questioned about MSNBC slant and Drama at GE shareholders meeting

O'Reilly and Olbermann both did a report on the meeting on their respective shows.


The comments on that first report claiming many in the audience were unhappy with MSNBC's liberal bias (I think Scarborough should feel a bit slighted by such a charge, BTW) made me wonder just who would be driving this slant other than a management decision to target a market audience?

SourceWatch doesn't have much on MSNBC other than to say it is owned by Microsoft and GE. Microsoft only owns 18%. So I looked up GE given that's the shareholder's meeting the staged O'Reilly producer confrontation occurred at. GE couldn't be more conservative. So how is it MSNBC is supposed to have a liberal bias?

FAIR reports on corporate ownership of NBC and while they go on to say



So we have Fox News owned by a man who has publicly admitted slanting the news and MSNBC which is supposedly biased in the liberal direction but which is owned by a conservative minded corporation.

I'm not trying to say Olbermann and Maddow are not news programs with clearly liberal sentiments. But I find it hard to believe they'd be on if they were promoting liberal agendas with blatantly false information or dishonest tactics.

Fox, OTOH, has been the focus of exposes' from "OutFoxed - Rupert Murdoch's War on Journalism" to this one from FAIR in 2001, "The Most Biased Name in News - Fox News Channel's extraordinary right-wing tilt".

The right wingers can whine all they want about the fact MSNBC has programming that targets a liberal market audience. It's like complaining there are dramas on in prime time when you like sitcoms. But it has no bearing on the quality of those programs. The quality isn't missing from Fox just because they target a conservative market. It's because they do it with the intent of manipulating the audience's political views.

All the programs are on with a degree of entertainment. But on Fox there is the added matter of the entertainers being able and even encouraged to totally distort the facts without impunity.

All this drivel to distract from your notion that Tony Blair is a conservative and that KO doesn't routinely make benighted comments.

"Outfoxed" is a docuganda riddled with erroneous claims. It said FOX News initially called the 2000 election for Bush 43 when they called it for AlGore. Some megaphone for "neocons."
 
Moving on past the thread clutter of the usual attacks on liberal posters like myself from the usual right wingers on JREF, .....

I thought I'd look a little closer at the supposed biases of the two stations much of the thread is focused on, MSNBC and Fox.

A Google search for murdoch admits fox is slanted easily gets documentation of this fact including a clip on Murdoch on a panel (World Economic Forum) being asked by Charlie Rose, "Rupert, is there any agenda that you want to shape?" The audience laughs as if to say, "D'uh."

First Murdoch says, No. Then he says "we don't have the power to change it" "you'd like to make a difference" then he goes on to say they tried to, they backed Bush's policies until Murdoch became disillusioned with how Bush executed the war.

Anyone here trying to make the ridiculous claim, Fox is not slanted news, has no credibility. Feel free to take a poll on that if you doubt my words.


But what about MSNBC? A similar Google search for MSNBC is slanted was not as specific as the Murdoch search, but it's no wonder given the fact GE owns MSNBC rather than an individual.

It did turn up the interesting attempt by O'Reilly to go after Olbermann last month at the GE shareholder's meeting. O'Reilly is relentless trying to attack his critics. He was obsessed with Al Franken for quite some time and now it's Olbermann who clearly gets O'Reilly's goat.

Politico; by Michael Calderone: GE execs questioned about MSNBC slant and Drama at GE shareholders meeting

O'Reilly and Olbermann both did a report on the meeting on their respective shows.


The comments on that first report claiming many in the audience were unhappy with MSNBC's liberal bias (I think Scarborough should feel a bit slighted by such a charge, BTW) made me wonder just who would be driving this slant other than a management decision to target a market audience?

SourceWatch doesn't have much on MSNBC other than to say it is owned by Microsoft and GE. Microsoft only owns 18%. So I looked up GE given that's the shareholder's meeting the staged O'Reilly producer confrontation occurred at. GE couldn't be more conservative. So how is it MSNBC is supposed to have a liberal bias?

FAIR reports on corporate ownership of NBC and while they go on to say



So we have Fox News owned by a man who has publicly admitted slanting the news and MSNBC which is supposedly biased in the liberal direction but which is owned by a conservative minded corporation.

I'm not trying to say Olbermann and Maddow are not news programs with clearly liberal sentiments. But I find it hard to believe they'd be on if they were promoting liberal agendas with blatantly false information or dishonest tactics.

Fox, OTOH, has been the focus of exposes' from "OutFoxed - Rupert Murdoch's War on Journalism" to this one from FAIR in 2001, "The Most Biased Name in News - Fox News Channel's extraordinary right-wing tilt".

The right wingers can whine all they want about the fact MSNBC has programming that targets a liberal market audience. It's like complaining there are dramas on in prime time when you like sitcoms. But it has no bearing on the quality of those programs. The quality isn't missing from Fox just because they target a conservative market. It's because they do it with the intent of manipulating the audience's political views.

All the programs are on with a degree of entertainment. But on Fox there is the added matter of the entertainers being able and even encouraged to totally distort the facts without impunity.

NBC made the strategic decision for MSNBC to become the Liberal version, in effect, of Fox News, the thinking being the formula that has proven so successful for Fox in providing an outlet for Conservative viewpoints could also prove successful for MSNBC in focusing editorial and programming efforts on attracting a Liberal audience. While the Democratic Party is in power these days, MSNBC's strategy has proven unsuccessful, counterintuitively, with significantly declining ratings since the elections. One reason propounded for the unexpected turn of events is that Liberals tuned into MSNBC in large numbers in the run-up to the election to stay abreast of events, but, with Obama having won, there's no real compelling interest in continued viewership.
 
I think O'Reilly vs Olbermann is not a completely unfair comparison. I would agree they are the most comparable of the 'most hated' left vs right TV personalities.

Both come across as self-important propagandists with absolutely no interest in nuances. I think O'Reilly wins the 'worst person on TV' contest though because he also comes across an extreme bully when he has guests on. Doesn't matter if Olbermann doesn't have so many guests that he disagrees with - we can speculate how he would treat them, but the fact is that he is not bullying guests around like O'Reilly is. I disagree that this is an effective debating style. It makes you symphathize with the person being bullied. Both Olbermann and O'Reilly have that same problem in their general presentations. Yes, they come across as emotional, but when that emotion appears to be anger and hatred, it doesn't help their credibility, except among those viewers that are already in 100.00% agreement with their point of view. Which is probably the target audience anyhow.

Of course they have occasionally done good things, like Olbermann challenging Hannity on waterboarding, or O'Reilly taking on Limbaugh (although his criticism mainly seems to consist of generic insults to Limbaugh's person, the criticism - from the right - of the unwholesome loyalty of Limbaugh's supporters is important).


Bringing someone like Maddow in the discussion is silly though. If you want to compare Maddow with someone on Fox, that might be Greta van Susteren perhaps. Maddow is not self-important, she always treats her guests with a lot of respect (she always starts by asking them if they think her introduction was fair). Yes, she usually brings in Republicans because they disagree in some way with the 'official' Republican viewpoint, but no one claimed she is neutral. She appears to be genuinely interested in nuances, and to promote an understanding of different opinions. This is completely unlike Hannity/Beck/O'Reilly - and Olbermann.
 
While the Democratic Party is in power these days, MSNBC's strategy has proven unsuccessful, counterintuitively, with significantly declining ratings since the elections. One reason propounded for the unexpected turn of events is that Liberals tuned into MSNBC in large numbers in the run-up to the election to stay abreast of events, but, with Obama having won, there's no real compelling interest in continued viewership.
I think it's more a result of the prevailing culture in liberal circles. Most liberals will feel rather uneasy about being fed with too obvious orthodoxies. That's not to say liberals in general are truly interested in other points of view, just that a format where the propaganda element is too obvious may not do very well. I think the 'humor' shows like Colbert/Stewart (and maybe Maher) fill this need in a better way, because while these guys share and express the liberal viewpoint, they don't come across as preaching it.

I don't know why this would be the case, but if I have to speculate I would say that it is a remaining disgust over preachers of orthodox marxism/maoism in the 60's and 70's.
 
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Bringing someone like Maddow in the discussion is silly though. If you want to compare Maddow with someone on Fox, that might be Greta van Susteren perhaps. Maddow is not self-important, she always treats her guests with a lot of respect (she always starts by asking them if they think her introduction was fair). Yes, she usually brings in Republicans because they disagree in some way with the 'official' Republican viewpoint, but no one claimed she is neutral. She appears to be genuinely interested in nuances, and to promote an understanding of different opinions. This is completely unlike Hannity/Beck/O'Reilly - and Olbermann.

Raychill is KO with testosterone. When she can't use facts to support her liberal rants, no problem, she just makes up stuff. Her notion that during the Tokyo Trials, Japenese convicted of waterboarding were hanged was a pefrect example.

In this clip, they even look alike.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sebfwBVEVKE

Here is s ample of her promoting "different opinions."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4yWN6pewN0
 
I dislike the Olberman / O'Reilly types moreso than the Limbaugh sorts, because, for instance, O'Reilly calls his radio show the 'No Spin Zone' - and it's nothing but spin - and Olberman tries to pretend like he's not completely one-sided, but he is. At least Limbaugh doesn't pretend to be impartial.

So admitting to being a liar is more important than whether or not you actually lie?


Is that what I said? I don't think it's what I said. Oh, it's not what I said, clearly, as you quoted the post. OK.

What's the confusion, then? Surely it's not mine.
 
A few more ham-handed attempts to drive that joke home might be in order. I don't think everyone's quite got it yet.

Dude, she's a lesbian. A LESBIAN. Maddow is a LESBIAN who looks like a boy to marck. Hee hee!

I congratulate Marke on his comedic genius.
 
Dude, she's a lesbian. A LESBIAN. Maddow is a LESBIAN who looks like a boy to marck. Hee hee!

I congratulate Marke on his comedic genius.

So, you're suggesting lesbians necessarily look like men? Such thinking would be more tragedy than comedy.
 

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