How's that recount coming along? (Iran)

webfusion

Philosopher
webfusion
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Nov 16, 2004
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It took the Iranian election officials 1.5 hours to declare that all 40-million paper ballots across the vast nation had been tallied and the Winner was 'obvious'.

Today, Ayatollah Khamenei said the Islamic Republic would not cheat or betray the vote of the people. He said President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad "won by eleven million votes."

Yet, while the original count was concluded in secret at lightning speed, here we are, still waiting for the Iranian election officials to have shown a SINGLE ballot box opened and counted in full public view.

No wonder these intelligent people in Iran are pissed-off.
 
You really missed the other two threads about that one?
 
POTUS and US Congress issues policy statments

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1094274.html

The vote was 405-1 -- "The US condemns the ongoing violence by the government and pro-government militias against demonstrators, as well as government suppression of independent electronic communications through interference with the Internet and cell phones."

Rep. Ron Paul, a Texas libertarian, cast the sole opposing vote because he said it was not the House's place "to judge events thousands of miles away about which we know very little."

Uh, yeah, Ron, you know 'so little' because the regime in Iran is suppressing the legitimate flow of information. Ipso facto.
 
40 million ... in 90 minutes. That's so convincing. Just how stupid do they think the rest of the world is? Reuters (just 2 - 3 weeks before the election) showed a lead for I'madinnerjacket by only 2 - 1; at least if you're going to lie, try and make it believable.
 
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Just thinking said:
40 million ... in 90 minutes. That's so convincing. Just how stupid do they think the rest of the world is? Reuters (just 2 - 3 weeks before the election) showed a lead for I'madinnerjacket by only 2 - 1; at least if you're going to lie, try and make it believable.
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I've no idea what your point is here or even who the "they" are, but talking about "I'madinnerjacket" is very stupid. Are you being ironic?
 
JihadJane said:
I've no idea what your point is here or even who the "they" are, but talking about "I'madinnerjacket" is very stupid. Are you being ironic?
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1) Counting 40 million paper votes in a mere 90 minutes seems a bit too unrealistic.

2) 11 million out of 40 million is closer to a 3 - 1 margin, not 2 - 1. That's a drop of almost 50% in the opposition to ... whatever-you-like-to-call-him.

3) Making fun of someone who denies the Holocaust makes me look stupid? You might wish to reconsider your opinion.

4) "They" refers to those in Iran puting forth the recount information.
 
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I continue to be impressed with opposition protesters. They've turned out in huge numbers despite state threats of violence. I just read that now the cops are using water cannons on them.

They've also kept their protests focussed and peaceful despite what has to be a huge amount of emotion.
 
There is no recount information, JustThinking.
Which is why I created this new thread. To debunk the claim that such a thing was actually occuring.

What we have seen, in the week or so since the elections ended, is stonewalling by the Mullahs. Public speeches by the Supreme Ayatollah indicating that HIS declarations about the election's outcome were to be considered as the "will of Allah" and taken at face value.

As a skeptic, I am justifiably skeptical.
 
webfusion said:
There is no recount information, JustThinking.
Which is why I created this new thread. To debunk the claim that such a thing was actually occuring.

What we have seen, in the week or so since the elections ended, is stonewalling by the Mullahs. Public speeches by the Supreme Ayatollah indicating that HIS declarations about the election's outcome were to be considered as the "will of Allah" and taken at face value.

As a skeptic, I am justifiably skeptical.
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OK ... I mistakenly took your information as recount information. My mistake, but I believe my other points are valid.
 
Just thinking said:
1) Counting 40 million paper votes in a mere 90 minutes seems a bit too unrealistic.
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To be fair, they hadn't counted all votes when they declared Ahmadinejad winner after 90min. - more like a third if I remember the various reports and discussions here I read.

Just thinking said:
2) 11 million out of 40 million is closer to a 3 - 1 margin, not 2 - 1. That's a drop of almost 50% in the opposition to ... whatever-you-like-to-call-him.
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That's just a matter of unfortunate rounding - see the wiki page with the official "results": 24.5 for Ahm., 13.2 for Mousavi, 1.5 for others/blank/invalid.

(and no, I'm not an apologist for the Iranian regime).


webfusion said:
There is no recount information, JustThinking.
Which is why I created this new thread. To debunk the claim that such a thing was actually occuring.

What we have seen, in the week or so since the elections ended, is stonewalling by the Mullahs. Public speeches by the Supreme Ayatollah indicating that HIS declarations about the election's outcome were to be considered as the "will of Allah" and taken at face value.
Click to expand...
Yesterday, Khamenei said at Friday prayer that fraud on such a scale was "impossible". I take it that means the recounting (that was ordered by the Guardian Council, IIRC) has stopped - if it ever began. An explicit report on that would be nice, though.

JoeTheJuggler said:
I continue to be impressed with opposition protesters. They've turned out in huge numbers despite state threats of violence. I just read that now the cops are using water cannons on them.

They've also kept their protests focussed and peaceful despite what has to be a huge amount of emotion.
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Impressive indeed. Using water cannons seems an improvement over earlier this week, when riot troops used batons and fire-arms. Does the regime already feel weakened by the pictures that have gone around the world?
 
ddt said:
To be fair, they hadn't counted all votes when they declared Ahmadinejad winner after 90min. - more like a third if I remember the various reports and discussions here I read.
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I would be satisfied, as I'm sure others would be, to see a SINGLE random box opened in front of live TV cameras, and the results of that one box could be extrapolated, to support or debunk the claims of the Ayatollahs.

This is something that everyone who's protesting is expecting -- to see for themselves actual ballots being counted in front of the public.
At no point has this been proven to have occurred.

Yesterday, Khamenei said at Friday prayer that fraud on such a scale was "impossible". I take it that means the recounting (that was ordered by the Guardian Council, IIRC) has stopped - if it ever began. An explicit report on that would be nice, though.
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We have not seen evidence of the counting ever having begun. So far, smoke and mirrors.
This is exactly why everyone is quite upset.
They are being told -- "Trust us, we know what the outcome was."


Using water cannons seems an improvement over earlier this week, when riot troops used batons and fire-arms. Does the regime already feel weakened by the pictures that have gone around the world?
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In fact, protests are spreading worldwide.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1094300.html
Tens of thousands of supporters of an exiled Iranian opposition group rallied outside Paris. In the northern Germany city of Hamburg, some 4,000 people marched through the city Saturday to protest Iran's election result.

and in Tehran itself --
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1094245.html
Eyewitnesses described fierce clashes near Revolution Square in central Tehran after some 3,000 protesters, many wearing black, chanted 'Death to the dictator!' and 'Death to dictatorship!' Police fired tear gas, water cannons and guns but it was not immediately clear if they were firing live ammunition. The witnesses told The Associated Press that between 50 and 60 protesters were seriously beaten by police and pro-government militia and taken to Imam Khomeini hospital in central Tehran. People could be seen dragging away comrades bloodied by baton strikes.
 
ddt said:
Impressive indeed. Using water cannons seems an improvement over earlier this week, when riot troops used batons and fire-arms. Does the regime already feel weakened by the pictures that have gone around the world?
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I'm certain they do. Their attempt to keep foreign journalists from covering these demonstrations is evidence of that.

And yes, today's coverage is about the protesters being beaten and tear-gassed again: http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/06/20/iran.election/index.html

While I have lots of respect and sympathy for the protesters, I think it's important to remember that this isn't the case of moderate/secular opposition to a religious zealous state. The protesters see themselves as carrying on the revolution of the Ayatollah Khomeini. I like to think there are more secularists in the opposition, but it sounds like it's still a religiously-motivated movement. Also, from what I've read Moussavi is just as committed to the nuclear program.
 
JihadJane said:
I've no idea what your point is here or even who the "they" are, but talking about "I'madinnerjacket" is very stupid. Are you being ironic?
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You are right about I'madinnerjacket - It's been Ahmadumjihad for several years now!!:)
 
Just thinking said:
1) Counting 40 million paper votes in a mere 90 minutes seems a bit too unrealistic.
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Mousavi declared his victory several hours before the polls even closed.


3) Making fun of someone who denies the Holocaust makes me look stupid? You might wish to reconsider your opinion.
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Yes, however you choose to dress it up, making fun of people because, to you, they have funny-sounding foreign names, makes you look stupid, at best.
 
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