no serial numbers were identified from flight 77

[Reheat]

You're getting pretty deeply into this MG1962. I'm not a maintenance or logistics expert by any means, but I do believe that these part numbers can be compared to the specific aircraft's maintenance records and pretty much narrowed down to a single aircraft. That's certainly not to imply that it has to be done or even should be done, but I believe it can be done.....

 

[MG1962]

You're getting pretty deeply into this MG1962. I'm not a maintenance or logistics expert by any means, but I do believe that these part numbers can be compared to the specific aircraft's maintenance records and pretty much narrowed down to a single aircraft. That's certainly not to imply that it has to be done or even should be done, but I believe it can be done.....

LOL - sorry I wasn't meaning to come across aggressively. Its just I hit this exact arguement from some truthers a few years ago. I was involved in getting my company ISO accreditation, so got into the real nuts and bolt side of what had to be put on a manufactured part and what wasn't.

For me it highlights the lack of research from the truther side. You cant ask a question about elements of 911 unless you know what the answer should be.

Another example of this are the light poles at the Pentagon. Most truthers dont know that those poles are made to break like that under FAA regulations. And that you can even today buy those exact light poles from the manufacturer.

All that aside, you are correct. Checking maintance logs with the numbers on the parts would be able to prove the age of the part and if it was installed when it was claimed. Because some parts would not have been replaced since the orginal build of the aircraft.

You might go to the trouble of doing that if there wasnt a 1000 others scraps of evidence that tie that particular aircraft to that particular event.

 

[JimBenArm]

But you're ignoring the fact that the supermen of the US Military, who can do anything, pulled off the biggest misdirection in the history of prestidigitation!

Come on! Show us some love, guys! We made you all believe it was a real plane, with real people, crashing into our main building, killing even more of our own, just to show you how clever and evil we are!

 

[lapman]

I see that KreeL has planted the goal post a good 100 miles outside of the playing field. He is using an argument that cannot be answered yes to. His claim that somehow, they would be able to identify a piece of intestine while it was still inside of the Pentagon. Since that is impossible and there were no readily identifiable bodies inside the Pentagon, they don't exist. It doesn't matter that they were identified someplace else. He has posted the irrational requirement for the sole purpose of winning the argument so he can boost his ego. His argument is completely irrelevant, but he can now high-five himself and claim that he pwnd us. In reality, he's only making himself look bad.

 

[lapman]

But thats my point. That serial numbers on the part is not unique to that aircraft, only to the manufacturing run that created it. A part with the number 12345/A could be found in a 100 aircraft.

The reason for this. Say in normal operation the part fails. The relative authorities can put out a notice asking for inspections of all aircraft that have that number. If a unique number was created, no one can back track to see if it was a manufacturing error that caused the failure.

Today with the evolution of inventory programs like SAP it may be possible to create a unique serial/batch number that can be tracked. But in the mid 80's when these planes were assembled no one had that ability. And as off 2005 - The last time I was involved in such things, it was not even a requirement.

The logic, aside from cost, is obvious. No one building a plane ever thought the parts would need to be used to forensically prove the particular plane crashed.

It really depends on the life cycle of the part. I work for an aerospace company and many of our parts have unique serial numbers. Sometimes it's only the components that are serialized, but not the assembly. Some of our parts have a specific life cycle, so the serial number is important for tracking by the customer. However, IIRC, sometimes the NTSB gets the serial numbers from the maintenance record and not off the part. I wrote them when I first started debunking and they stated that many times the FDR and CVR serial numbers come from the records and not from the part.

 

[1337m4n]

I see that KreeL has planted the goal post a good 100 miles outside of the playing field. He is using an argument that cannot be answered yes to. His claim that somehow, they would be able to identify a piece of intestine while it was still inside of the Pentagon. Since that is impossible and there were no readily identifiable bodies inside the Pentagon, they don't exist. It doesn't matter that they were identified someplace else. He has posted the irrational requirement for the sole purpose of winning the argument so he can boost his ego. His argument is completely irrelevant, but he can now high-five himself and claim that he pwnd us. In reality, he's only making himself look bad.

He will also ramble on about how we're using "faith", despite that:

There's DNA evidence of 90% of the people on the plane, recovered inside the pentagon.

There are plane parts from a Boeing 757 recovered inside the pentagon.

There are 100+ people who saw the plane fly into the pentagon.

AA was missing that plane on 9/12/2001.

There is no evidence that he plane continued to operate after 9/11/2001.




Not faith, but evidence. 9/11 Truth are the ones who need faith: faith to believe that none of the above is relevant, because they want to believe it's irrelevant.

 

[T.A.M.]

I will venture right now, without any conflicting proof, that the only bodies found inside the Pentagon were those that worked there.

So the investigators are lying when they say they recovered DNA belonging to the passengers of flight 77? Is that what you are saying?

Welcome to ignore.

TAM

 

[Alt+F4]

None of the planes on 9/11 were positively identified in the usual manner plane crashes are normally investigated.

I guess your "truther" mindset allows you to ignore the positive identification of all those bodies.

 

[T.A.M.]

Kreel;

I have you on ignore now, so I will not even see your response, but this needs to be said.

You are ignorant and vile. You sit here and accuse people who worked on that crime scene of fabricating or lying. You do so without proof. Yet there was DNA analysis that confirmed the remains of all but one of the passengers.

I think you should be taken into a public area, have to sit and be berated by the family members of flight77. I think you should have to publicly face those people, and have them, and the families of those you are accusing of lying, tell you what a miserable human being you are.

I personally do not know how you live with yourself, or how you look yourself in the mirror.

You can go on like a whiny child about "faith based" this, and "pray" that, and you know what, in the end you are still a pathetic, useless internet surfer who has nothing better to do with his life.

Ok, Yellow card me now...It had to be said, as this fellow, even among the vile, is something special.

TAM

 

[Alt+F4]

I think you should be taken into a public area, have to sit and be berated by the family members of flight77. I think you should have to publicly face those people, and have them, and the families of those you are accusing of lying, tell you what a miserable human being you are.

Yes, those same families, hundreds of people, who have not once, in over seven years, questioned that their loved ones died in the Pentagon crash.

 

[Dog Town]

I saw a picture once of ... I don't know ... and I don't know ...

You got that right! For once!

 

[ElMondoHummus]

So to sum up:

There's DNA evidence of 90% of the people on the plane, recovered inside the pentagon.

There are plane parts from a Boeing 757 recovered inside the pentagon.

There are 100+ people who saw the plane fly into the pentagon.

AA was missing that plane on 9/12/2001.

There is no evidence that he plane continued to operate after 9/11/2001.

.....and a few idiots think that because every serial number of every part of that plane wasn't listed for them that all of the above is invalid?

There's one more important FACT to add to your summary. There is a CONTINUOUS radar track with NO MISSING RETURNS from shortly after take-off at Dulles until it's about 3-4 minutes from impacting the Pentagon, where it was too low to be picked up by radar.

He will also ramble on about how we're using "faith", despite that:

There's DNA evidence of 90% of the people on the plane, recovered inside the pentagon.

There are plane parts from a Boeing 757 recovered inside the pentagon.

There are 100+ people who saw the plane fly into the pentagon.

AA was missing that plane on 9/12/2001.

There is no evidence that he plane continued to operate after 9/11/2001.




Not faith, but evidence. 9/11 Truth are the ones who need faith: faith to believe that none of the above is relevant, because they want to believe it's irrelevant.

All of this needs to be highlighted. The conspiracy peddlers want to push individual details as if they falsify the entire story. The fact that those of us in the general public do not have serial numbers for various pieces is supposed to somehow negate the weight of all the evidence. This is fallacious reasoning. The fact of the matter is, all the above threads of evidence - from separate, individual sources, by the way - all combine to demonstrate beyond doubt that the jetliner that impacted at the Pentagon was indeed FL77. The flight data recorder and ATC radar data alone establishes that, even before we get into the witness statements and victim identifications, let alone the airphone calls, first responder testimony, etc. Why does our lack of access to infinitesimal pieces of data - data which would only serve to verify what was witnessed, and what is already validated by the gross amount of evidence that is already publicly available - matter? That is the argument of one who's simply seeking to disrupt, not one who is genuinely interested in discovering the truth of the matter.

 

[Shalamar]

Kreel;

I have you on ignore now, so I will not even see your response, but this needs to be said.

You are ignorant and vile. You sit here and accuse people who worked on that crime scene of fabricating or lying. You do so without proof. Yet there was DNA analysis that confirmed the remains of all but one of the passengers.

I think you should be taken into a public area, have to sit and be berated by the family members of flight77. I think you should have to publicly face those people, and have them, and the families of those you are accusing of lying, tell you what a miserable human being you are.

I personally do not know how you live with yourself, or how you look yourself in the mirror.

You can go on like a whiny child about "faith based" this, and "pray" that, and you know what, in the end you are still a pathetic, useless internet surfer who has nothing better to do with his life.

Ok, Yellow card me now...It had to be said, as this fellow, even among the vile, is something special.

TAM

Kreel and his ilk are terrorists. They seek to turn the people of the USA by 'asking questions' and pointing fingfers, "Look how evil these people are! It was an INSIDE JOB!".

They follow their glorious leader and rophet of prophets, Alex Jones. The bow and scrape at his feet, worshiping every lie out of his mouth.

No evidence is to great that it cannot be ignored, no lie is to big that they cannot speak it. The only reason why I have no placed these.. people.. on ignore is so I can know what lies that they are speaking, and how I can counter the lies. I know they will not listen, but perhapps I can try and convince others that these terrorists are lying.

 

[JamesB]

So what is the point of this argument? That the passengers who were identified crashed into the Pentagon on a different plane? I don't think they would fit in an A-3 Skywarrior....

 

[Shalamar]

So what is the point of this argument? That the passengers who were identified crashed into the Pentagon on a different plane? I don't think they would fit in an A-3 Skywarrior....

They seem to believe (with faith) that flight 77 did NOT crash into the pentagon. it overflew, landed close by, the passengers were escorted out of the plane, killed, and either a: remains brought to the 'crash site', where they were then taken to the lab to be ID'ed, or b: taken directly to the lab to be ID'ed.


No evidence towards this claim, of course.

 

[lapman]

They seem to believe (with faith) that flight 77 did NOT crash into the pentagon. it overflew, landed close by, the passengers were escorted out of the plane, killed, and either a: remains brought to the 'crash site', where they were then taken to the lab to be ID'ed, or b: taken directly to the lab to be ID'ed.


No evidence towards this claim, of course.

Yes. Because "faith" requires evidence. "Truth" means that you "know," because..well...ummm..you just do.

 

[bio]

You can't tell us why we need serial number.

(...)

... because here should be "a place to discuss skepticism, critical thinking ...".

 

[BigAl]

... because here should be "a place to discuss skepticism, critical thinking ...".

You need to work on the "Critical thinking" part.

Critical thinking gives due consideration to the evidence, the context of judgment, the relevant criteria for making the judgment well, the applicable methods or techniques for forming the judgment, and the applicable theoretical constructs for understanding the nature of the problem and the question at hand.[2] Critical thinking employs not only logic but broad intellectual criteria such as clarity, credibility, accuracy, precision, relevance, depth, breadth, significance and fairness.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_thinking​

 

[T.A.M.]

... because here should be "a place to discuss skepticism, critical thinking ...".

Yes but you have to have at least some agreed upon parameters. When one side considers all evidence from the FBI/CIA/NTSB/FAA/NORAD etc... faked unless it supports their world view, where do you start to have a RATIONAL DISCUSSION?

It is like you having a debate with a 4 year old over the existence of unicorns. The 4 year old still lives in imagination land, so a rational discussion, skeptical or otherwise, is IMPOSSIBLE.

TAM

 

[Crazytimes]

I still have yet to get a good explanation as to how the plane debris was planted by the goverment in broad daylight. Care to answer ?