The Truth of Christianity vs. All Other Belief Systems

[yy2bggggs]

And I would ask your friend exactly where in the Bible it makes such a claim.

That would be Revelation chapter 21 verse 4.

 

[RandFan]

That has to be one of the creepiest, most disturbing things I've ever read. Last year one of my wife's co-workers lost his wife and their young son in a tragic car accident. If I was in his place and God offered to erase my memories of them, I would tell him to go to Hell. I would rather suffer the pain of loss than lose the memory of love. I would rather suffer in Hell with my loved ones than let God erase the evidence of his crimes by deleting my memory of those he's wronged.


And I would ask your friend exactly where in the Bible it makes such a claim. If he can't point out chapter and verse then he might want to consider the possibility that he is simply making it up to comfort himself.

I asked that. I had heard something like that before but was still taken aback. It seems to me that theist reasoning works like this.

1. My belief in god is correct.
2. Any belief that seems inconsistent must reconcilable.
3. The first answer that makes me feel better is sufficent resolve any apparent inconsistency.

But how would a theist possibly resolve the issue? How can one be blissfuly happy and know that loved ones are suffering? Assuming that the Bible doesn't have an answer does that mean that there isn't an answer.

Yes, it's creepy and raises the question why our soujurn on earth is necassary if we are only going to be robots anyway?

 

[tsig]

Indeed he can, but he does have discretion over the music that's played.

Just imagine the difference between an eternity of suffering acompanied by, say, the Rolling Stones and an eternity of suffering to the strains of Take That.

...having said that, it might rankle to have to hear 'Sympathy for the Devil' while he's frying your toes...

Never hurts to suck up a little. We know how god feels about giving you water in hell.

(‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me! Send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water to cool off my tongue, because I am suffering in this fire.’16

25“But Abraham said, ‘My child, remember that during your lifetime you received blessings,[n] while Lazarus received hardships.[o] But now he is being comforted here, while you suffer. 26Besides all this, a wide chasm has been fixed between us, so that those who want to cross from this side to you cannot do so, nor can they cross from your side to us.’)

 

[tsig]

Nope, I was indwelt and knew no such thing.

Does being possessed by the devil count?

 

[tsig]

The Aten cares not one whit for your friendship. and your acceptance is optional, so make up your own terms if you wish.

However, be aware that failing to accept the Aten at face value can actually kill you, unlike that pathetic and impotent god-thing of the hebrews.

Understand?

Oh Aten can you give me a Mercedes Bentz

My friends all have Porches

 

[tsig]

I said any influence from God seemed not apparent. The guy was one of the many guys my moms friends introduced her to - they wanted her to meet someone who could make her happy.



I never said that. In that situation it seemed more pragmatic - it wasn't like she was praying for another husband and the next day the dude showed up on the doorstep with a ring.



Because to many, many Christians God is not just some sort of magical wish granter - answered prayers aren't the only thing Christians approach God for. For my mom (judging from the diary she left behind) belief in God and her relationship with Him and her understanding about how uniquely special she was to Him helped rebuild her self-esteem. Her belief in God gave her the inner strength to kick that guy out on his ass (probably one of the first times in her life she stood up like that) and this time around be on her own at her choice.



Because I don't believe we are simply puppets - God gives us plenty of leeway to live our lives. Maybe you think otherwise - I don't know. You probably don't believe at all.

deleted

 

[temporalillusion]

Does being possessed by the devil count?

How would I know the difference?

 

[six7s]

Does being possessed by the devil count?

Yes... but only for two-thirds of each millennium

 

[Paulhoff]

God is Holy and deserving of all our praise!!

Having an imaginary friend is OK, but only as long has you know it is only an imaginary friend and it doesn’t start to tell you what do believe and do.

Paul

 

[Sun Countess]

I think it's pretty sad to have an imaginary friend who's constantly telling you that you're full of evil and worthy only of death, who will burn you and your family for all eternity for even thinking a prohibited thought, and who delights in causing suffering in this world but promises it will be better in the next one. Why would someone choose an abuser as an imaginary friend? At least Jiminy Cricket sings songs and whispers happy thoughts.

 

[I Ratant]

Oh Aten can you give me a Mercedes Bentz

My friends all have Porches

.
I've worked hard all my lifetime,
No help from my friends..
But I couldn't afford the insurance
On a Mercedes Benz!

 

[jmcvann]

God is Holy and deserving of all our praise!! John3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

I have never understood this verse. Please explain to me what "gave" means in this verse.

(Edited for clarity)

 

[jsfisher]

I have never understood this verse. Please explain to me what "gave" means in this verse.

(Edited for clarity)

There is also that whole perish business. I thought it was just heaven or hell and maybe purgatory (but only for Catholics and people skiing in Colorado).

 

[fromdownunder]

I was debating a Christian friend the other day. I asked him, as I've asked KK, how could you be happy in heaving knowing loved ones where suffering for time and all eternity. "God will take away my memory of them" he said.

So I guess a lobotomy isn't far from the truth.

This is a pretty popular concept among some fundies. But it is purely from their personal perception, in that they think they know what, out of all of their life, what the "good bits" of life are, and what the "bad bits" of life are, and what they will take with them.

What they are doing is projecting their personal perceptions of good and bad on their belief of what their version of Heaven will be like, and want to selectively and personally take what they really want with them, and forget the rest. A bit like moving house and throwing out some stuff you no longer want - in actuality that's what they think they will be doing.

In reality, they have no idea what their God thinks of as good and bad, and have no idea what their Heaven will be like or what they will be like. The Bible is extremely wobbly on what Heaven actually is.

I know I have harped on this in other threads, but if it's not all of me (i.e., my memories) which goes to Heaven (or Hell), then it will not be me, and I really don't give a damn which bits God wants. He can have them.

Without my life experience (the good, the bad and the ugly), what's left that goes somewhere else is, as you say, nothing more than a lobotomised robot.

Norm

 

[MIKILLINI]

God is Holy and deserving of all our praise!! John3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


Remember one day every knee will bow and every toungue confess Jesus is Lord.

Yes, God so loved the world he created the very mechanism of suffering and placed it within reach of man. You want to give praise for that? How does he deserve praise? Did he deserve praise before Jesus?

 

[Robert Oz]

Remember one day every knee will bow and every toungue confess Jesus is Lord.

There was another great man to whom every knee would bow... apart from one who was greater.

"Come, Son of Jor-El. Kneel before Zod!"

 

[RandFan]

I know I have harped on this in other threads, but if it's not all of me (i.e., my memories) which goes to Heaven (or Hell), then it will not be me, and I really don't give a damn which bits God wants. He can have them.

Without my life experience (the good, the bad and the ugly), what's left that goes somewhere else is, as you say, nothing more than a lobotomised robot.

Norm

Agreed.

 

[supercorgi]

We are his creation and he deserves our reverence. It would not hurt you one bit to have a healthy fear of God put in you!

If we are his creation, why is so mean to us? Why do you think God should punish the whole world for the mistakes made by some mythological people at the start of creation? (And because of situation he created - he's the creator of all the world - couldn't he have put the tree in some other place?)

Just yesterday, my sister-in-law's dad died. She believes he'll be in heaven with her dead sister. Who am I to disabuse her from this belief even though he didn't receive last rights? She's Catholic (although you don't believe she's a real Christian). I think being compassionate, and a loving God would consider that life, and a good life, is far more important than accepting Jesus as your personal savior. But you don't. In light of this, how can you call yourself loving and compassionate? You follow a mean and vengeful god.

How can you damn him? And in your religion you would consider him damned. He was a good man, he served his country (he was a POW in WW2). He sired 3 wonderful children and loved his wife. Your religion would condem to Hell. How is that loving? Maybe you should think of that. But I don't think you will. You despise people who don't believe as you do. I pity you because you're so deluded that you condemn good people and you think that all mankind is basically evil unless they accept your conception of Jesus.

I was raised in a Congregational church, I sang in the choir, but eventually, I learned that there were so many religions in the world. All of them proclaimed they were the "one true belief" I realized the hubris in this and realized that none of them were "true." And that all of them were man-made.

I feel sorry for you Kathy. You're so brainwashed that you can't appreciate people of other faiths - regardless of what nice and loving people they are. Your world is very small and you can't appreciate the real wonder that's out there.

 

[supercorgi]

I was debating a Christian friend the other day. I asked him, as I've asked KK, how could you be happy in heaving knowing loved ones where suffering for time and all eternity. "God will take away my memory of them" he said.

So I guess a lobotomy isn't far from the truth.

How does god shut out the weeping and wailing and people begging him for relief? I guess in the end he really doesn't give a ****.

Then again perhaps that is all a load of nonsense.

There's another thread that discusses this. There's a quote from somebody (I think from Rapture Ready) who discusses just this issue. So if you are Raptured, how can you really feel ectasy if you know your loved ones are suffering in Hell. And how if god takes this pain away, are you really yourself? Are you just a changed copy of yourself? What is heaven if you're no longer yourself?

 

[supercorgi]

You don't know what the **** your talking about. The word BAD was never used by me. She ended up in an abusive relationship - and as with many relationships like that it became apparent when it became apparent.



You're selling short and denigrating abused women everywhere with your elitest bigoted attitude - so **** off.

I've got to agree with Christian Skeptic, you can't judge his personal experience - his mother got out and stood up for herself. She eventually showed her strength. I admire that, it's very hard for a battered woman to extract herself from such a situation, particualiy when they have children to care for.

But don't you have to admit, Christian Skeptic that the tradition of Christianity says that women will are should be subsevient to men. That sets up a situation where women can't complain. If they do, they're going against the word of god. For fundamentalists this sets up a situation where a woman considers it's her ordained place in life to suffer whatever her husband does because she must obey.

I find this mindset very repugnant. A partnership should be equal. I know that's not a biblical view, I feel sorry for people like KK that thinks that women have to obey their men no matter how they treat them.