Hokulele - kurious_kathy Book Challenge

[Marcus]

The challenge was too great.

An inability to read and comment on the book shows a lack of Faith on kathy's part, a fear that her beleifs may be shaken if she considers rational arguments. A similiar fear can be seen when she ignores points made here , substituting preaching for actual responses.

 

[Roadtoad]

An inability to read and comment on the book shows a lack of Faith on kathy's part, a fear that her beleifs may be shaken if she considers rational arguments. A similiar fear can be seen when she ignores points made here , substituting preaching for actual responses.

I'd agree with this. For that matter, her efforts here were long ago exposed for what they are: Kathy's efforts to look like she's really doing something for Jesus, even as it becomes clearer and clearer that she's offering nothing to further the conversation, and that she's only here to look good to her friends in church.

 

[Blue Mountain]

I'd agree with this. For that matter, her efforts here were long ago exposed for what they are: Kathy's efforts to look like she's really doing something for Jesus, even as it becomes clearer and clearer that she's offering nothing to further the conversation, and that she's only here to look good to her friends in church.

Sorry, Roadtoad, I don't really agree with this. Even in the era of mega-churches, mega-pastors and (perhaps) mega-egos, the fundamentalist strand of Christianity preaches against doing things just to make you look good in the eyes of either your friends or the community at large. The cue comes from the Gospel of Matthew:

1 "Beware of practicing your righteousness before men to be noticed by them; otherwise you have no reward with your Father who is in heaven.

2 "So when you give to the poor, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, so that they may be honored by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full."

16 "Whenever you fast, do not put on a gloomy face as the hypocrites do, for they neglect their appearance so that they will be noticed by men when they are fasting. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full."

I came out of the same tradition Kathy is in. I think she would be offended at the suggestion that's she's doing this just to look good to her friends. She's not even doing it as an attempt to get into heaven or to gain favour with God.

Fundamentalist Christianity teaches that the "saved" have already gained God's grace, favour, and salvation. They need not work to gain entrance into heaven, although good works done on Earth will build up the reward in heaven. (The exact nature of this reward is never truly spelled out, since another part of the teaching is that being in heaven with God is the reward.)

Kathy's motivation here is to tell us about her God--her Lord, who (in her mind) has given her great and wonderful things, and is willing to share them with us too. It's as though she has met a rich and powerful philanthropist who has given her a million dollars, and she wants everyone else to know that he will give each of us a million as well--just for the asking!

We're trying to point out that the million dollars are entirely virtual and come with some strings attached.

 

[Roadtoad]

Sorry, Roadtoad, I don't really agree with this. Even in the era of mega-churches, mega-pastors and (perhaps) mega-egos, the fundamentalist strand of Christianity preaches against doing things just to make you look good in in the eyes of either your friends or the community at large. The cue comes from the Gospel of Matthew:


I came out of the same tradition Kathy is in. I think she would be offended at the suggestion that's she's doing this just to look good to her friends. She's not even doing it as an attempt to get into heaven or to gain favour with God.

Fundamentalist Christianity teaches that the "saved" have already gained God's grace, favour, and salvation. They need not work to gain entrance into heaven, although good works done on Earth will build up the reward in heaven. (The exact nature of this reward is never truly spelled out, since another part of the teaching is that being in heaven with God is the reward.)

Kathy's motivation here is to tell us about her God--her Lord, who (in her mind) has given her great and wonderful things, and is willing to share them with us too. It's as though she has met a rich and powerful philanthropist who has given her a million dollars, and she wants everyone else to know that he will give each of us a million as well--just for the asking!

We're trying to point out that the million dollars are entirely virtual and comes with some strings attached.

Both of us came from that tradition, BM, which is precisely why I said what I did. No, you're not supposed to be chasing after that kind of thing, but that's exactly what tends to happen. It may or may not be intentional, but it is there. We're human beings, subject to the same old temptations of the past that we've always encountered. And one of those is power and acceptance.

 

[Ysidro]

Kathy, why won't you respond to the simple request to state your understanding of what Ehrman suggests as a response, and your critique of it? You just keep repeating your own analysis, but refuse to paraphrase the ideas in the book you supposedly read (listened to). Why won't you do that?

Because then she'd be caught Lying for Jesus again. Duh!

 

[Dragonrock]

Sorry, Roadtoad, I don't really agree with this. Even in the era of mega-churches, mega-pastors and (perhaps) mega-egos, the fundamentalist strand of Christianity preaches against doing things just to make you look good in the eyes of either your friends or the community at large. The cue comes from the Gospel of Matthew:



I came out of the same tradition Kathy is in. I think she would be offended at the suggestion that's she's doing this just to look good to her friends. She's not even doing it as an attempt to get into heaven or to gain favour with God.

Fundamentalist Christianity teaches that the "saved" have already gained God's grace, favour, and salvation. They need not work to gain entrance into heaven, although good works done on Earth will build up the reward in heaven. (The exact nature of this reward is never truly spelled out, since another part of the teaching is that being in heaven with God is the reward.)

Kathy's motivation here is to tell us about her God--her Lord, who (in her mind) has given her great and wonderful things, and is willing to share them with us too. It's as though she has met a rich and powerful philanthropist who has given her a million dollars, and she wants everyone else to know that he will give each of us a million as well--just for the asking!

We're trying to point out that the million dollars are entirely virtual and come with some strings attached.

Kathy is a human and as such she suffers from the same basic selfishness and doubts that affect us all. I suspect that she wants to be right. So, the more people who she can get to agree with her, the more she feels that she made the right choice.

 

[Moochie]

<snipped for Heaven's sake>

Kathy's motivation here is to tell us about her God--her Lord, who (in her mind) has given her great and wonderful things, and is willing to share them with us too. It's as though she has met a rich and powerful philanthropist who has given her a million dollars, and she wants everyone else to know that he will give each of us a million as well--just for the asking!

We're trying to point out that the million dollars are entirely virtual and come with some strings attached.

Just saying, if KK's god were a rich and powerful philanthropist, and the million spondulicks weren't virtual, I'd be there in a jiffy.


M.

 

[RoboTimbo]

Kathy is a human and as such she suffers from the same basic selfishness and doubts that affect us all. I suspect that she wants to be right. So, the more people who she can get to agree with her, the more she feels that she made the right choice.

Not a wise choice of venue for her prosletyzing, if she's using that logic.

 

[Moochie]

Kathy is a human and as such she suffers from the same basic selfishness and doubts that affect us all. I suspect that she wants to be right. So, the more people who she can get to agree with her, the more she feels that she made the right choice.

Has anyone agreed with her yet? Wouldn't want her to think her efforts were for naught.


M.

 

[Dragonrock]

Not a wise choice of venue for her prosletyzing, if she's using that logic.

Has anyone agreed with her yet? Wouldn't want her to think her efforts were for naught.


M.

I suspect that we are but one target in her shotgun blast of evangelism.

 

[Marcus]

Has anyone agreed with her yet? Wouldn't want her to think her efforts were for naught.


M.

I'm sure Doc would be in her corner, funny they don't participate much in each others threads. I think she would be waiting a very long time indeed for a conversion.

 

[Hokulele]

I'm sure Doc would be in her corner, funny they don't participate much in each others threads. I think she would be waiting a very long time indeed for a conversion.

She has posted in one of DOC's threads...

...and he completely ignored her.

 

[Fiona]

Just saying, if KK's god were a rich and powerful philanthropist, and the million spondulicks weren't virtual, I'd be there in a jiffy.


M.

Why? So far as I can see you are not allowed to spend it on anything much ....

 

[Alareth]

including the mutually contradictory bits? Did Jesus have 3 simultaneous sets of last words (to pick an easy one)?

Ehrman was on Colbert last week promoting his new book, "Jesus Interrupted", that is all about those and other contradictions in the different gospels about his life and crucifiction.

 

[supercorgi]

Both of us came from that tradition, BM, which is precisely why I said what I did. No, you're not supposed to be chasing after that kind of thing, but that's exactly what tends to happen. It may or may not be intentional, but it is there. We're human beings, subject to the same old temptations of the past that we've always encountered. And one of those is power and acceptance.

I've got to agree with RT. Kathy stops by here about every 6 months or so to spread her "have faith in the Lord" spiel. I don't think it's really all that genuine. She comes by here trying to convert us heathens by her witnessing. After all this time, I can't really believe that she thinks that she'll accomplish much but she's putting in her time for Jeebus and thereby gaining brownie points. Her version of Christianity practically requires that each person do this sort of thing -- just like the missionary religions require that each person spend so much time on missionary work.

Frankly I just don't understand it. Although I was raised in a fairly easy-going Christian faith, my cousin has turned into a missionary. She goes to Muslim countries to do "good works" but her prejudice against other religions is very apparent. When I talked to her about Egypt, she complained that "every time we establish a church, they put up a mosque right next to it!" Well no ◊◊◊◊ Sherlock -- it's a Muslim country and that's their religion! When she had a missionary trip planned to Turkey, I encouraged her to visit the Blue Mosque (an amazing and historical architectural and historical site) but she wouldn't even consider it because it was a mosque.

I'm an atheist and I love the historical, architectural, and artistic legacys of many faiths -- apart from what their beliefs were. I pity the people that cut themselves off from so much beautiful culture because it may contradict their world view. I think they are so much poorer for that viewpoint.

 

[kurious_kathy]

So they're on some kind of regular "hunt the atheist" schedule? Ooh, maybe there's an atheist season we don't even know about, like duck season and deer season.

No it's not like that at all. We care enough to want to share our faith with others everywhere in hopes some may come to know Christ too like we have. Jesus is the only one who can open someones eyes but for some reason he does choose us as his disciples to testify to his truth. It's really up to each person to seek God for themselves.

 

[Hokulele]

No it's not like that at all. We care enough to want to share our faith with others everywhere in hopes some may come to know Christ too like we have. Jesus is the only one who can open someones eyes but for some reason he does choose us as his disciples to testify to his truth. It's really up to each person to seek God for themselves.

And it was up to you to listen and comment on Ehrman's book.

So, please demonstrate that you have upheld your end of the bargain and describe his solution to the existence of suffering and what you think of that solution.

Not your solution. Not your pastor's. Ehrman's.

 

[fromdownunder]

Jesus is the only one who can open someones eyes but for some reason he does choose us as his disciples to testify to his truth. It's really up to each person to seek God for themselves.

And your Jesus has utterly failed to open the eyes of at least 67% (and you would rate it at 83%+++) of the eyes of people currently alive, and probably well over 90% of the people that have ever existed.

What an incredible fail rate your Jesus/God has. If he is good in your eyes you have very low standards.

Norm

 

[Sideroxylon]

And your Jesus has utterly failed to open the eyes of at least 67% (and you would rate it at 83%+++) of the eyes of people currently alive, and probably well over 90% of the people that have ever existed.

What an incredible fail rate your Jesus/God has. If he is good in your eyes you have very low standards.

Norm

And rather discriminatory too. If you happen to be born in a country like Turkey, Indonesia or Japan it seems he’s not interested.

 

[arthwollipot]

So, Kathy, what is your opinion of Ehrman's suggestion as a response to suffering? Anything?

His response is counter to mine which is faith. I have faith that tells me no matter how crummy or painful life gets for me or those around me God will one day wipe every tear away and restore us. Why he allows so much suffering is still and will always be a mystery.

Our life is but a vapor that will pass quickly, but what we do while we are alive is what matters. I accept God on his terms, this does not mean I always understand him or why he allows certain things in life. Perhaps I have more understanding and empathy for others who suffer and this is the reason God allowed it in my own life.

In Don Pipers book 90 Minutes in Heaven he talks about this same subject. He went through way worse and I suggest you read his book to seek another perspective on this question of suffering. He has been able to minister to others who went through some of the same suffering he endured and feels that it was God's purpose in bringing him back from the dead in a fatal car crash even though what he went through was nothing none of us would want to go through. Worth a read.

While it may be true that all answers are responses, not all responses are answers. You didn't answer the question.

In fact, you completely blew off the question and started talking about yourself. We're not interested in you talking about yourself, Kathy. You do, after all, talk about yourself rather a lot.