Hokulele - kurious_kathy Book Challenge

[dafydd]

But did you ever really look at all Jesus suffered to die in our place? He is not the one that deserved that!

Prove to me that he suffered.Don't point me to the bible,some other contemporary source or sources please.

 

[dafydd]

posted by sun countess

"just have a sinking feeling that kathy's response to anything we say (see: Bob Klase above) will be:

A. But Jesus died for you! Is it fair that he suffered for your sins?

B. How can you deny heaven/hell/Jesus's suffering? We're all sinners!

C. I have faith that you can still be saved if you open your heart to Jesus's suffering on your behalf, otherwise you'll burn in a fiery pit of hell!

D. I'm suffering but I know I'm a sinner and that's okay and it's still not as bad as Jesus's suffering, or as bad as the suffering you'll face in the fiery pits of hell!"

That's what she's been programmed to say.

 

[dafydd]

So, how is the audio book going? Any thoughts yet?

Does kathy have thoughts?

 

[dafydd]

Yes I did comment on that and I really hope they do take it seriously but I am skeptical of that since so many argue about God's existence. Materialism does not explain or define everything in our world or human nature. Many things are a part of our beings that we can't see but yet they are there like our conscience mind and ability to reason right from wrong. People cry out for justice but yet they do not define where that concept comes from. Why is that? Could it truly be we are spiritual beings and those things inside were put there by our creator God? I say yes, absolutely.

And I know many think they are happy in this life without God but then I must challenge you to think about what does it profit a man if he gain the world but lose his soul? Living for pleasure (BC days) only destroyed my life and now I know God had a purpose in helping me get to the end of that self destructive lifestyle. I repented of ungodly living and now I am finding hope and healing. This is what is working for me and many others out there. I do not think it is very wise for everyone to not validate a Christians testimony to the truth of the saving power of Christ.

And the problem of original sin has been discussed plenty before, I agree with it. Because of Adam and Eve's sin we all paid the cost. If you had been Eve do you think you would have done better?

You don't believe that Adam and Eve really existed,do you? Please tell me you don't,I can't believe that anyone with a grain of intelligence would take it as anything but a myth.

 

[grokinhaze]

"Oh I can answer that for you. Because the Bibble says so and the Bibble is the inspired word of God! (In other words, pure circular reasoning.) All other religions are just Satan's attempt to turn people away from Jesus' light and offer of salvation."

that is a common explanation. but i want KK to answer.

 

[dafydd]

Wow, what a post. I'm not current in my reading of this thread, I just wanted to comment that this is one of the best I have read on the religious forum.

with no help from Kathy

 

[dafydd]

I can only hope to reach Chuck's level of understanding. He has been a blessing for me and thousands of others to know the truth of scripture. I know God has used him as the founder of all the Calvary Chapels, but to this date I am not sure how many Calvary Chapels there are?

How much money has Chuck made to date out of the Calvary Chapels? I hear that's a good business to get into down in the bible belt.

 

[Roadtoad]

Kathy, let me ask you to start with this thread.

Having done that, may I ask you: Knowing that my former employer spends a lot of his time praying and the like, and that he claims Jesus is truly in charge of his business, is my former employer truly Christian? And if so, why should I believe him?

 

[Tricky]

You don't believe that Adam and Eve really existed,do you? Please tell me you don't,I can't believe that anyone with a grain of intelligence would take it as anything but a myth.

It is my observation that Kathy believes every single thing in the Bible. Even the parts she hasn't read.

 

[IMST]

It is my observation that Kathy believes every single thing in the Bible. Even the parts she hasn't read.

including the mutually contradictory bits? Did Jesus have 3 simultaneous sets of last words (to pick an easy one)?

Why is it that these kinds of people are able to stop believing in Santa at some point in their lives but still hold on to this kind of crap?

 

[temporalillusion]

including the mutually contradictory bits? Did Jesus have 3 simultaneous sets of last words (to pick an easy one)?

Or when did Jesus cleanse the temple? At the beginning or at the end of his career?

 

[Ladewig]

You don't believe that Adam and Eve really existed,do you? Please tell me you don't,I can't believe that anyone with a grain of intelligence would take it as anything but a myth.

It seems that 31% of the American population does not have a grain of intelligence: Gallup poll 2007

GALLUP NEWS SERVICE

PRINCETON, NJ -- About one-third of the American adult population believes the Bible is the actual word of God and is to be taken literally word for word. This percentage is slightly lower than several decades ago. The majority of those Americans who don't believe that the Bible is literally true believe that it is the inspired word of God but that not everything it in should be taken literally. About one in five Americans believe the Bible is an ancient book of "fables, legends, history, and moral precepts recorded by man."

 

[Lanzy]

KK, What does your god get from all this suffering he causes? Is he sustained from worship? If there are enough non-believers does he disappear? He loves a guy so much he takes his leg? Just so he will come crawling hopping back? Wouldn't he HAVE to believe god did take his leg?

 

[Marcus]

Prove to me that he suffered.Don't point me to the bible,some other contemporary source or sources please.

Even if he did suffer( I agree there is no evidence of this) it is really very tame stuff compared to, say, the suffering of your average inquisition victim.

 

[YeahDude]

This is quite possibly the most frustrating thread ever. Could someone just tell me how it ends. I predict KK will just stop posting with n o real resolution.

 

[tsig]

including the mutually contradictory bits? Did Jesus have 3 simultaneous sets of last words (to pick an easy one)?

Why is it that these kinds of people are able to stop believing in Santa at some point in their lives but still hold on to this kind of crap?

What contradictions?The witness all had different viewpoints so the difference Proves the truth of the bible.

 

[tsig]

Even if he did suffer( I agree there is no evidence of this) it is really very tame stuff compared to, say, the suffering of your average inquisition victim.

Or your average martyr. Being boiled in oil or fried on a griddle like a T-bone seems to be an order of magnitude worse than suffocating.

 

[kurious_kathy]

So, Kathy, what is your opinion of Ehrman's suggestion as a response to suffering? Anything?

His response is counter to mine which is faith. I have faith that tells me no matter how crummy or painful life gets for me or those around me God will one day wipe every tear away and restore us. Why he allows so much suffering is still and will always be a mystery.

Our life is but a vapor that will pass quickly, but what we do while we are alive is what matters. I accept God on his terms, this does not mean I always understand him or why he allows certain things in life. Perhaps I have more understanding and empathy for others who suffer and this is the reason God allowed it in my own life.

In Don Pipers book 90 Minutes in Heaven he talks about this same subject. He went through way worse and I suggest you read his book to seek another perspective on this question of suffering. He has been able to minister to others who went through some of the same suffering he endured and feels that it was God's purpose in bringing him back from the dead in a fatal car crash even though what he went through was nothing none of us would want to go through. Worth a read.

 

[Madalch]

He went through way worse and I suggest you read his book to seek another perspective on this question of suffering. ... Worth a read.

You have an incredible amount of unmitigated gall to tell -us- to read something.

 

[Elizabeth I]

This is quite possibly the most frustrating thread ever. Could someone just tell me how it ends. I predict KK will just stop posting with n o real resolution.

From the little I've seen of her while I've been here, that's exactly what will happen. She will just go away one day and come back when she thinks this round of nonsense has been forgotten, to try to peddle the same .