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The Obama Deception

The movie is typical AJ stuff, but who here denies that corporations, banks, the media etc. have far more power over the government and decisions being made than your typical citizen? Isn't that the point behind the "elite" that "controls" everything? Not the sinister AJ illuminati-elite, but just very powerful men and organisations (non-governmental).

You'd need something like the swiss sytem to actually get some decision power into the hands of the people (I'm not from there so I don't know the specifics or how well it works in practice).

It seems patently obvious that decisions made by the government (and I'm not now even talking about the US, I'm not from there) are very often against the best interests of the people in general. Money and media usually are the engines behind every decision and policy. Common sense is very rarely applied.
 
Watch the movie, it has Obama saying just that, before he became president.

I refuse to watch this piece of crap of a movie. I'd rather watch the toilet water swirl.

The toilet is more educational then Alex Jones' bigoted fear-mongering, chicken little, bull.
 
The movie is typical AJ stuff, but who here denies that corporations, banks, the media etc. have far more power over the government and decisions being made than your typical citizen? Isn't that the point behind the "elite" that "controls" everything? Not the sinister AJ illuminati-elite, but just very powerful men and organisations (non-governmental).

And this is the biggest problem with AJ-world: where is the competition among different blocs of elites? According to him they're monolithic, "on program" and united in their efforts to mislead the public and further their nefarious plots.

Its a gross oversimplification of the latticework of competing elites that run the show. They're not all on the same page. They differ in politics, values and loyalty. Different agendas will serve some sections of the powerful better than others. Some powerful people will even support agendas that run against their seeming self-interest - I'm talking about the leftish families who give the big donations to PBS, or someone like Soros.

Another problem with AJ's myopia I feel is his worldview is intensely Western-centric: what factions of his world-controlling NWO come from Asia? Where does China and Japan fit in? How come we don't hear all that much about Indonesian "banksters"?

His view of the Middle East is that of a plaything for the hegemon - but what room is in there for the powerful locals? The organic production of radicals from the inputs of history and culture? OBL was not "created" by the US - he was created by the forces of history and local culture... but everyone there is either a "stooge", a "lackey" or sometimes even alleged to be a complete fiction.

Do the Chinese and American factions of his NWO have identical agendas? Aren't there good reasons why they maybe wouldn't always align on policy??
 
You are attempting the impossible by voicing reasonable and logical questions.

He's a nut, logic and reason do not apply. I've lived overseas for most of my life (outside of the US) and in the ME the 'NWO' is targeted at destroying Islam and bringing western culture into Arab and Muslim homes. Most already live under dictatorships so that concept doesn't apply!
 
To prkatik.
I agree with your points.
AJ apparently (and it's told in the movie) thinks that it's the "angloamerican" elite that runs the whole show. They control the other countries you mentioned. The other countries are just pawns in this and will be destroyed if they step out of line.
It's just modern day imperialism.

Some may disagree, but there is a kernel of truth in this, at least if you think how the western world benefits from the resources of the rest of the world. We really do have the highest standard of living, although we have almost none of the natural resources. Kind of curious, isn't it?
 
How come Alex Jones doesnt devote any time to the fact that Chinese own the USA?
 
To prkatik.
I agree with your points.
AJ apparently (and it's told in the movie) thinks that it's the "angloamerican" elite that runs the whole show. They control the other countries you mentioned. The other countries are just pawns in this and will be destroyed if they step out of line.

I was about to say that! In the documentary that one author guy says the NWO is a Anglo-American NWO. He says that's what they mean when they talk about creating a New World Order - an Anglo-American order around the world. It's supposed to be the new version of the British Empire.
 
Maybe he focuses on an anglo-american elite because its easier that way. Who wants to bother learning a new language after all?

That's tough!
 
Typical Alex Jones. Vague phrases calling for a 'World Government' lifted from vague news sources. That's it, essentially.

He even manages to get a Lincoln assassination conspiracy in, and provides more lies about Kennedy being a liberal martyr.


IMHO it is going to, for sheer wackiness, be hard for Jones to top his batcrap crazy review of "Watchmen".
 
I refuse to watch this piece of crap of a movie. I'd rather watch the toilet water swirl.

The toilet is more educational then Alex Jones' bigoted fear-mongering, chicken little, bull.

The toilet can be used to teach about Coriolis forces. AJ, maybe gravity, as he is so fat he may have skinny guys in orbit around him.
 
The toilet can be used to teach about Coriolis forces. AJ, maybe gravity, as he is so fat he may have skinny guys in orbit around him.

Plus the lack of mass between their ears is why they stay in orbit around his fat-filled head. If they had just a little more brain cells, they would be able to pull away from the gravitational forces surrounding Jones' ego.
 
If you want to see a boogeyman behind every bush badly enough, then it'll happen for ya. You'll start blurring and eventually erasing the line between the innocuous and the insidious. Obama wasn't just at the Bulls game having a beer because he likes basketball and beer! That's what normal salt-of-the-earth folk are into! It was a carefully staged psychological operations campaign! Gimme a freakin' break man. When Bush got out of office, Porkins lost his VIP slot at the local buffeteria, so to speak. The peaceful transfer of power is something that he dreads because it undermines him and everything that he stands for. I can't even mirror the epic-scale dressing down that RoadToad gave him a few weeks ago...but what put me over the edge about him?

Yelling at soldiers with a bullhorn. Our men and women in uniform have to put up with enough B.S. in the daily routing without some corpulent, vile, sniveling, turpitudinous Walter Mitty bleching empty-headed rhetoric at them.

We can claim a victory. The drummer in my band tried to get me into the 9/11 conspiracy stuff about two months ago. (He didn't know I was a forum member here, and therefore part of the enemy.) He threw the usual at me...The "Cleveland" aircraft, fire doesn't melt steel, Bilderberg, Larry said Pull, and the usual TM talking points. I like the guy, I really do. He's a fantastic drummer and I knew that he was a good distance down the rabbit hole, but also fairly intelligent. Even though I'm equipped to go point-by-point tearing up that tired old crap, I didn't want to do it based on what I've seen here. People will dig in sometimes for whatever reason when you go on the attack.

I am proud to say that my drummer told me two weeks ago that he canceled his InfoWars and PrisonPlanet, unsubscribed from email lists, and basically cut all ties with him. So how did I manage to do it?

Here's the thing. I didn't. I listened intently to his rattling off of all the old CT arguments, and when it was my turn to speak, here's what I said.

"You believe 9-11 was a government conspiracy, yes?"

"Uh-huh."

"And this is mostly because you believe that evidence brought forth BY government agencies within very same government is suspect?"

"Well, yeah. I don't see any reason to just accept it at face value."

"Do me a favor. Apply that same reasoning towards this information you're getting from these websites. Give them an honest and fair review."

He agreed, and that was it. After he looked at the information he'd been given and contemplated the scope of everything, he saw it for himself. No need for me to cram points of data down his throat. I didn't even plug JREF as much as I wanted to. It all came from him. Conspiracy theorist gone, only my friend and drummer remains. The last conversation we had on the subject went like this:

Him: "I still don't trust the government though."

Me: "Damn right. You shouldn't. But you should trust people like Alex Jones FAR less."

Boom goes the dynamite, to paraphrase John Stewart.

I'm sorry, what were we talking about?
 
Geez, you keep doing that and all AJ is going to have left are the stupid and the gullible who desperately want to consider themselves above that station in life and are willing to let someone tell them what to do and who to be mad at in exchange.
 
Well, in all fairness, it was very easy for him to bring in people who detested the Bush Presidency. After all, they actually did so many shady things that if a guy comes along and says they're also responsible for this that and the other, a lot of otherwise very intelligent people will be willing to give the man a pass due to their hatred of Bush.

Alex Jones would not have enjoyed the success he has if this happened, say, in the Gerald Ford administration.

"Gerry Ford did WHAT?!? No freaking way. You're pulling my leg, fat man."
 
None of what is happening is any surprise to me. You are not going to get elected without the assistance of the Powers That Be, nor will you be taken seriously by them if you aren't interested in serving their interests. They have made their way to the top of the heap, and are hell bent on staying there.

Having said that, (and saying this as more and more information is coming out about AIG and its misuse of Federal money given to them to keep them afloat), I don't see a "conspiracy" against individuals, nor do I see us heading towards the "New World Order" that Jones and others seem to think is coming. Trade barriers are falling, and it's only the fool who ignores this, or seems to think that in a global economy, you're going to get an exemption.

A one world government? Good luck with that. De Gaulle once asked, "How do you govern a country with over two hundred types of cheese?" Hell, considering the differences in culture just between Bretagne and Provence, could you even imagine trying to pull that off with the differences between California and Bolivia? Or Queensland and Finland? We can't even get any agreement in as compact a political unit as Rhode Island, and there's one hell of a lot less difference there than there is anywhere else. And when you consider how badly the ideas fronted to "save" the United Nations have fared, (nearly all of them have been shot down as unworkable), a One World Government is not in the cards.

The problem here is that this is the same lunacy I've been reading since 1984, when I started working in Christian radio. 1984 was supposed to be the year that marked the end of the American Republic. It didn't happen, so it was moved to '88, when Reagan was leaving office. (Never mind that people who were just like Jones were proclaiming Reagan an Anti-Christ, in spite of his claims of faith.) George H. W. Bush didn't help matters with his claims of working towards a New World Order, even though many of us were reading up on what he meant in everything from Foreign Affairs to Time, and smirking because we recognized it for the phrase-mongering it was.

We managed to survive Bush I, Bill Clinton, Bush II, and now, we're looking at Obama. If Americans are really that worried about the decline of the Republic, they've a funny way of showing it. If the average person would read, study, learn, and then VOTE, things would change, and in one hell of a hurry.

Jones and his ilk, (locally, it's a psycho pastor named John Torrell, who emigrated here from Sweden. And, no, Sweden doesn't want him back), for all their claims, are about as Anti-American as they come. The theories and the like don't change; only the names of the Bogey Men and the instruments of destruction they'll use do. These charlatans have no knowledge of history, they've ignored the consequences that befell their predecessors, and will ultimately prove to be as accurate, if not less so, because of their monumental gaps in their education. They haven't a clue about Teapot Dome, Credit Mobilier, the Whiskey Rebellion, or the ABC Affair. Had they even cracked the cover of a high school history text, they might have learned something, and realized just how foolish they look.

I might even have accused Jones of running his own conspiracy, (someone beat me to it in this thread), but he's simply not that bright. In truth, as Jones is proclaiming the fallacy that our Republic is headed face-first into the toilet, and ultimately discouraging people from voting and getting involved, he's demonstrating his incredible lack imagination and wisdom. It's the same plot, over and over again. It's Baywatch, without the girls and surf, which also explains why his audience is so small. All he needs is David Hasselhoff, and he might actually get an audience that reaches into double digits.

Years after leaving this kind of crap behind, I still get garbage in the mail from everyone from the John Birch Society to e-mails proclaiming that if I don't wise up, Barack Obama's going to come for my truck. Oh, please. Al Gore was supposed to come for it, and considering I can't keep the damn thing running, he can have it. It's more than a little insulting that no matter how often I opt out on the spam I keep getting, it just seems to multiply, because you have to know this stuff, because you're a concerned American!!!

Actually, that's the one thing Jones and his allies have gotten right. I am a very concerned American. It's why I try and stay informed. It's why I have copies of The Federalist Papers, and Common Sense. It's why I vote on Election Day. It's why I don't listen to psychos like Alex Jones and spend more time listening to people who actually have my best interest at heart.

Jones and crew have found a niche where they can make money, promoting the kind of paranoia that erodes the base of our civil liberties. They will never turn their attention to real threats that face the world, such as hunger, homelessness, nuclear proliferation, political instability, because in doing so, they would be cutting their own throats. It's easier to bleat about how we need to know what's going on at Bohemian Grove, (it's vital that you know that Henry Kissinger gets smashed there and walks around in the buff), rather than confronting real issues, because they've now established their Kook credentials, and that's where the money is.

As the weirdos continue to blather on about how the world is going to hell, what they are ignoring is their role in preventing it. Jones is out to keep them on the hook and away from facts in the exact same way as Peter Popoff and Benny Hinn are trying to keep the ill from the doctors. He's not selling Snake Oil; that's relatively harmless. Rather, he's peddling poison, slowly killing his customers, and claiming that if they want to live, they need to buy the antidote from him, which is simply more poison.

And when his customers die, he blames it on people who tried to warn them that what Jones was feeding his customers was poison, all in the hope that they'll continue to buy more poison. And, to his credit, he's become so slick at selling the concoction of Academic Arsenic, Political Peyote, and Hateful Hemlock, the customers just keep coming.

So, no, in watching the trailer, I saw nothing new. It's just a new face for the same game. Eventually, Jones might be right, but if he ever is, it'll be because of his actions, and the inaction he bred in his followers, and not because of anything someone like Barack Obama did or didn't do.
 
Three Obie bumpers stickers from my redneck friends.. There's not too much fondness for him in right-wing land.
 

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I wonder if AJ will mention how he "predicted" that the election was going to be cancelled and Bush was going to be President for Life.

Oh but don't you see the election WAS cancelled! We were all allowed to go and vote and make us feel good for obvious reasons. However Obama was always going to "win" the fakELECTION. He, like Bush, is just another puppet so in fact "Bush" (the NWO) will be president for life.

All the evidence I need can be shouted through a bull horn.
 
:eek: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!! (I still have my BDP tapes)

I know. It's like my teens and twenties were a house of cards.

ETA: JoeyDonuts, good on you for taking that route. I've found similar success in promoting critical thinking over critical debunking with people. There will always be a few who are determined to believe that there are monsters in the dark, but on the whole people tend to be a whole lot smarter than the conspiracy theory sellers give them credit for being.
 
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Well, in all fairness, it was very easy for him to bring in people who detested the Bush Presidency. After all, they actually did so many shady things that if a guy comes along and says they're also responsible for this that and the other, a lot of otherwise very intelligent people will be willing to give the man a pass due to their hatred of Bush.

Alex Jones would not have enjoyed the success he has if this happened, say, in the Gerald Ford administration.

"Gerry Ford did WHAT?!? No freaking way. You're pulling my leg, fat man."

Perhaps not Ford, but can you imagine what would have happened if this had happened in a Gore Administration? Jones would be a lion of the right now, for the simple reason that there is far more paranoia of the government on the right wing than there is the left. Indeed, one of the reasons that the lefties in the Troof Movement were clustered in the Geritol bracket, is because they're leftovers from the last big paranoid left which died out in the 1970s.
 
The last of the Timothy Leary Brigade. When focusing their energies wasn't enough to defeat the forces of old and evil, they sort of sputtered along working at Garden Ridge or volunteering at bead shops until the internet came along.
 

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