linusrichard
Master Poster
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Hope you're posting from the public library....
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Church shooting some kind of trend?
- Thread starter JoeTheJuggler
- Start date
Hope you're posting from the public library....
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Roadtoad
Bufo Caminus Inedibilis
I am genuinely sorry that I read Kathy's posts. Really, I am. But after reading the responses she got from reasoned posters, people I respect, I felt I owed it to them.
Let's take this a step at a time, Kathy.
First of all, I'd like to know where the hell you ever got the idea I would either waste my time or degrade myself by engaging in physical violence with you. If you're going to engage in hyperbole and slander, you'd better have some evidence of the FACTS. I've got a hot flash for you, woman: You may have been foolish enough to stay with men who treated you violently, but I haven't wasted my time with women who would tolerate that with me. The women I know, the ladies I know and respect, would not.
In fact, quite the opposite.
A friend of ours was married to a guy who came home drunk one night. (Note that word "one.") After finding out that dinner would be late, he smacked her around a little. He went into the bedroom after dinner and passed out on the bed. She waited until he was asleep, tied him up in the sheets, then took a baseball bat and beat the ever-loving fecal matter out of him. (A tough move on her part, considering how far his cranium was jammed up into his rectum.) Keep this in mind: This woman qualifies in my book as a Lady. Not that you would consider her such, given that this woman is a Catholic, and she doesn't take a crap from anyone, but then, your opinion has mattered for less and less since you started posting here, and Ducky revealed your lies to the entire board.
No, Kathy, you're not worth slapping. It's why you're on "ignore." You have demonstrated you are one of the most offensive, repellent trolls this board has ever seen. That you slander people I know and respect -- people of genuine faith -- by your condescending actions, by your vile words spoken in the name of Jesus, is to me all the more reason why I wouldn't soil myself by wasting any more time with you than I absolutely need to, and I sure as hell wouldn't degrade myself by hitting you. (And why the hell did you think I wanted to meet you in a public place? Or did you think a Denny's where CHP and Sacramento County Sheriff's deputies eat their meals would allow anyone to smack anyone else? Are you really that STUPID?)
Frankly, Kathy, there aren't too many people in this world I would hit. See, that kind of thing you reserve for people for whom you hold some potential for respect. I don't respect you. There is nothing TO respect. Trust me, there have been many people here that I've wanted to punch square in the mouth. Oddly enough, I've actually met a few of them face to face, and wound up respecting them. You? I don't think there's any way that would ever happen.
Yes, I'm pissed off with you. You don't falsely accuse me of something like that. Ever. You're going to be reported for this. Hopefully, you'll be banned.
Another point: No, Kathy, you DON'T want to see anyone here saved. If you had ever wanted to see anyone on this board saved, you would have examined yourself, and your actions, and conducted yourself accordingly. Considering your actions in the light of the REAL Christians who post here, who do so with compassion, respect, and dignity, who have become some of the most respected people on this board, I can honestly say you have demonstrated the same degree of "faith" as the likes of Fred Phelps. (God, I miss Stamenflicker.) Your smugness in the face of the anger you engender among people here demonstrates this. And in spite of what Christian Dude has said to attempt to defend you, you have undercut your own husband with your hate. That, as much as anything else, is something I find appalling. Why would you do such a thing to your own husband? Or are you really that selfish? (I already know the answer, as do you. This is called a "rhetorical question." Just so you know.)
I have heard about Judgment Day. I'm far too familiar with it. I used to believe in it. The problem is, Kathy, that most "Christians" are obsessed with it. Sorry, but if you're really that worried about it, you are not a Christian. What you tell me with this monomania about Jesus' "imminent" return, (it's been two thousand years, I don't think it's going to happen any time soon, if at all), is not that you have any confidence in your salvation, but that you haven't any at all. You are not saved, because if you were, you wouldn't have to preach about it, you'd show it. You would be living a life as a saved woman. (And if you've ever read any of Kittynh's posts, or MLynn's, you would see what a Saved woman is like.)
Frankly, I don't see what the big deal is for you about Judgment Day. If you're saved, you really don't anything to worry about. Unless, of course, your behavior was so repellent to the unsaved that they fled at the very mention of His name. In that case, I think I'd be a bit worried, too. (Thanks, Chaos!)
You weren't making a "joke," Kathy. Once more, you're lying. In fact, the weird thing is that you lie even when telling the truth would serve you better. You honestly believe that people on this board took pleasure in the death of this man, and nothing could have been further from the truth. The one or two sick bastards who would have taken pleasure in this tragedy generally don't post here, mainly because people like Upchurch, like Tricky, like the the vast majority of people here, would have reported that kind of abuse, and the mods would have either suspended them, or reprimanded them. No one but you would have even considered anyone taking any pleasure from this sad event. Only you, Kathy. You're the only person who even considered this.
Most people on this board have been saddened by this. No one should have suffered like this. This man leaves behind a family, friends, and a congregation that will remember how he died, and they will remember how pointless it was.
And, no, Kathy, he was not "demon possessed." Quit reading William Peter Blatty. There are no demons. Demons are make believe, every bit as much as fairies, gnomes, and honest truthers. They simply don't exist. This man, if I'm reading this right, was suffering from Lyme's Disease, something my idiot Brother in Law's sister is enduring right now. She has many of the same medical problems as this man, though she's nowhere near as gone. It is a disease, Kathy. We know what causes it, and to a limited extent, we can treat it. Tragically, many people who progress to this stage do suffer from a number of different maladies, and one of them can be the loss of their precious sanity. This was not the work of a demon; it was the result of nature, and the fact that we are subject to the laws of nature.
It is an act of extreme selfishness, this declaration that it's "demonic," that you choose to ignore the scientific evidence which reveals this to be what it truly is, that you are so fixated on this being a sign of the End Times, that you cannot even allow this man and the pastor he's killed one last shred of dignity as their lives end.
I was not an atheist when you started posting here. But I am now. You, woman, have played a very minor role in convincing me there could be no god. But you've played one, nonetheless. You lie to people on this board, then justify it in the name of Christ. You have so offended my wife that she wants nothing to do with you. (And as I've pointed out, Peggy is very much a Christian.) You have shown everyone on this board just how low you'll go just to get a reaction, a hit, to anything you say.
You are on ignore for a reason. I don't have any more time to waste with someone who slanders my friends, who slanders me. I don't want to waste any further time with you, and this will probably be the last missive from me that you'll ever read. You disgust me, Kathy, with your smears, your abuse, your hypocrisy. No, Kathy, you have nothing to offer, unless you're dressed in leather and carrying a whip, and I don't swing that way. I have no further time to waste with liars. And out of respect for a man who, by all appearances, wanted nothing more than to serve the god he believed in, was gunned down as a result of a psychotic episode by a man who had been infected with a progressively degenerative disease, I would sincerely hope you are at the very least suspended from this board, and at best, banned. You represent the very worst of evangelicals, and in so doing, you smear my friends, my loved ones, and in turn, you smear me.
If there were any justice, you would be condemned to the very Hell you wish on the rest of us. But, as you've already show us, there isn't any where you're concerned.
Let's take this a step at a time, Kathy.
First of all, I'd like to know where the hell you ever got the idea I would either waste my time or degrade myself by engaging in physical violence with you. If you're going to engage in hyperbole and slander, you'd better have some evidence of the FACTS. I've got a hot flash for you, woman: You may have been foolish enough to stay with men who treated you violently, but I haven't wasted my time with women who would tolerate that with me. The women I know, the ladies I know and respect, would not.
In fact, quite the opposite.
A friend of ours was married to a guy who came home drunk one night. (Note that word "one.") After finding out that dinner would be late, he smacked her around a little. He went into the bedroom after dinner and passed out on the bed. She waited until he was asleep, tied him up in the sheets, then took a baseball bat and beat the ever-loving fecal matter out of him. (A tough move on her part, considering how far his cranium was jammed up into his rectum.) Keep this in mind: This woman qualifies in my book as a Lady. Not that you would consider her such, given that this woman is a Catholic, and she doesn't take a crap from anyone, but then, your opinion has mattered for less and less since you started posting here, and Ducky revealed your lies to the entire board.
No, Kathy, you're not worth slapping. It's why you're on "ignore." You have demonstrated you are one of the most offensive, repellent trolls this board has ever seen. That you slander people I know and respect -- people of genuine faith -- by your condescending actions, by your vile words spoken in the name of Jesus, is to me all the more reason why I wouldn't soil myself by wasting any more time with you than I absolutely need to, and I sure as hell wouldn't degrade myself by hitting you. (And why the hell did you think I wanted to meet you in a public place? Or did you think a Denny's where CHP and Sacramento County Sheriff's deputies eat their meals would allow anyone to smack anyone else? Are you really that STUPID?)
Frankly, Kathy, there aren't too many people in this world I would hit. See, that kind of thing you reserve for people for whom you hold some potential for respect. I don't respect you. There is nothing TO respect. Trust me, there have been many people here that I've wanted to punch square in the mouth. Oddly enough, I've actually met a few of them face to face, and wound up respecting them. You? I don't think there's any way that would ever happen.
Yes, I'm pissed off with you. You don't falsely accuse me of something like that. Ever. You're going to be reported for this. Hopefully, you'll be banned.
Another point: No, Kathy, you DON'T want to see anyone here saved. If you had ever wanted to see anyone on this board saved, you would have examined yourself, and your actions, and conducted yourself accordingly. Considering your actions in the light of the REAL Christians who post here, who do so with compassion, respect, and dignity, who have become some of the most respected people on this board, I can honestly say you have demonstrated the same degree of "faith" as the likes of Fred Phelps. (God, I miss Stamenflicker.) Your smugness in the face of the anger you engender among people here demonstrates this. And in spite of what Christian Dude has said to attempt to defend you, you have undercut your own husband with your hate. That, as much as anything else, is something I find appalling. Why would you do such a thing to your own husband? Or are you really that selfish? (I already know the answer, as do you. This is called a "rhetorical question." Just so you know.)
I have heard about Judgment Day. I'm far too familiar with it. I used to believe in it. The problem is, Kathy, that most "Christians" are obsessed with it. Sorry, but if you're really that worried about it, you are not a Christian. What you tell me with this monomania about Jesus' "imminent" return, (it's been two thousand years, I don't think it's going to happen any time soon, if at all), is not that you have any confidence in your salvation, but that you haven't any at all. You are not saved, because if you were, you wouldn't have to preach about it, you'd show it. You would be living a life as a saved woman. (And if you've ever read any of Kittynh's posts, or MLynn's, you would see what a Saved woman is like.)
Frankly, I don't see what the big deal is for you about Judgment Day. If you're saved, you really don't anything to worry about. Unless, of course, your behavior was so repellent to the unsaved that they fled at the very mention of His name. In that case, I think I'd be a bit worried, too. (Thanks, Chaos!)
You weren't making a "joke," Kathy. Once more, you're lying. In fact, the weird thing is that you lie even when telling the truth would serve you better. You honestly believe that people on this board took pleasure in the death of this man, and nothing could have been further from the truth. The one or two sick bastards who would have taken pleasure in this tragedy generally don't post here, mainly because people like Upchurch, like Tricky, like the the vast majority of people here, would have reported that kind of abuse, and the mods would have either suspended them, or reprimanded them. No one but you would have even considered anyone taking any pleasure from this sad event. Only you, Kathy. You're the only person who even considered this.
Most people on this board have been saddened by this. No one should have suffered like this. This man leaves behind a family, friends, and a congregation that will remember how he died, and they will remember how pointless it was.
And, no, Kathy, he was not "demon possessed." Quit reading William Peter Blatty. There are no demons. Demons are make believe, every bit as much as fairies, gnomes, and honest truthers. They simply don't exist. This man, if I'm reading this right, was suffering from Lyme's Disease, something my idiot Brother in Law's sister is enduring right now. She has many of the same medical problems as this man, though she's nowhere near as gone. It is a disease, Kathy. We know what causes it, and to a limited extent, we can treat it. Tragically, many people who progress to this stage do suffer from a number of different maladies, and one of them can be the loss of their precious sanity. This was not the work of a demon; it was the result of nature, and the fact that we are subject to the laws of nature.
It is an act of extreme selfishness, this declaration that it's "demonic," that you choose to ignore the scientific evidence which reveals this to be what it truly is, that you are so fixated on this being a sign of the End Times, that you cannot even allow this man and the pastor he's killed one last shred of dignity as their lives end.
I was not an atheist when you started posting here. But I am now. You, woman, have played a very minor role in convincing me there could be no god. But you've played one, nonetheless. You lie to people on this board, then justify it in the name of Christ. You have so offended my wife that she wants nothing to do with you. (And as I've pointed out, Peggy is very much a Christian.) You have shown everyone on this board just how low you'll go just to get a reaction, a hit, to anything you say.
You are on ignore for a reason. I don't have any more time to waste with someone who slanders my friends, who slanders me. I don't want to waste any further time with you, and this will probably be the last missive from me that you'll ever read. You disgust me, Kathy, with your smears, your abuse, your hypocrisy. No, Kathy, you have nothing to offer, unless you're dressed in leather and carrying a whip, and I don't swing that way. I have no further time to waste with liars. And out of respect for a man who, by all appearances, wanted nothing more than to serve the god he believed in, was gunned down as a result of a psychotic episode by a man who had been infected with a progressively degenerative disease, I would sincerely hope you are at the very least suspended from this board, and at best, banned. You represent the very worst of evangelicals, and in so doing, you smear my friends, my loved ones, and in turn, you smear me.
If there were any justice, you would be condemned to the very Hell you wish on the rest of us. But, as you've already show us, there isn't any where you're concerned.
JoeTheJuggler
Penultimate Amazing
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- 27,766
I'm quite certain you've contradicted this before, on another thread. I'd have to look, but I'm pretty sure you said you had to keep vigilant and pray hard when the devil came knocking (or something like that). I was pretty incredulous, so I asked if this is something that happens to you often, and you replied that it was.
So. . . how long have you been a non-believer?
Since you're a true believer, I guess your fears of Satan are just paranoia? Or could it be that you don't have faith that Jesus will protect you from the devil? Maybe you don't believe Jesus is powerful enough, or that he doesn't have enough compassion for you?
No matter how you cut it, it makes no sense--even if you allow for the existence of demons and possession and a God-man and all this silliness.
kurious_kathy
Master Poster
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I'm quite certain you've contradicted this before, on another thread. I'd have to look, but I'm pretty sure you said you had to keep vigilant and pray hard when the devil came knocking (or something like that). I was pretty incredulous, so I asked if this is something that happens to you often, and you replied that it was.
So. . . how long have you been a non-believer?
Since you're a true believer, I guess your fears of Satan are just paranoia? Or could it be that you don't have faith that Jesus will protect you from the devil? Maybe you don't believe Jesus is powerful enough, or that he doesn't have enough compassion for you?
No matter how you cut it, it makes no sense--even if you allow for the existence of demons and possession and a God-man and all this silliness.
Why do you twist this? I am a believer so I cannot be indwelt by a demon. On the other hand people who do not believe in Jesus can be. I do not want to see this happen to anyone so I state over and over to non believers what's so hard about believing Jesus is the Son of God? Why do you need proof?? I just believe and know I am saved through God's grace and provision but you guys who get mad at me for sharing this try to twist it around. Why do you fight the truth that can save you?
SpuriusMaximus
Penultimate Amazing
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Replace Jesus with the Invisible Pink Unicorn in your paragraph above, then try to answer it.
Hokulele
Deleterious Slab of Damnation
How do you know this? For all we know, there may be one inside you right now making you type questions such as asking whether or not one of us would want to shoot you or whether or not Roadtoad would want to slap you. I mean, those aren't exactly the kinds of jokes someone with a loving or caring nature would make.
Yes, but those aren't the people making the hurtful, hateful jokes in this thread.
Because there are literally thousands of other religions that directly contradict your beliefs. Besides, your track record regarding accuracy is amazingly poor. Obama is president and the world hasn't ended.
See above.
Why do you fight the truth that there is no evidence for god?
We're also told that the churches will become apostate, but we don't hear a lot of churches preaching about that.
kurious_kathy
Master Poster
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I said I was sorry already it was a bad joke so can you guys please quit beating me up for it. I have felt more than once peoples hostility hear on jref and it's clearly many are mad at God so I will not take it personal. All of us are sinners in need of forgiveness, even Obama.
And I am sorry to have to admit I do not support our president as I do not feel he is or was the man we needed in the White House. He has already made some very bad choices that even if he doesn't get re-elected will take at least a decade for better management to try to recover. Our ecomony has only begun to get worse and Obama is not helping! I'm sorry but I do suspect he is purposesly sabatoging the US for unknown reasons. Could he be an undercover Muslim? You know Islam wants to take over the whole world and will stop at nothing so who's to say they aren't behind some of this going on in the USA?
Hokulele
Deleterious Slab of Damnation
No, actually you never said sorry or apologized in any form for any of your cruel jokes. If you had directly apologized to the members of the forum for your first comment and directly to Roadtoad for the second one, you wouldn't come across as such a spiteful person.
Go look back at your posts. Not one "sorry", but plenty of lame excuses and dismissals.
No, I am mad at you. You alone must take full responsibility for your words and actions, so in that sense, yes, it is personal. Anything less than the realization that your actions have led you to this place is rude, selfish, and horribly immature.
Nope, I lead an amazingly boring life, so really there is nothing for which I need to be forgiven.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
joobz
Tergiversator
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- 17,998
Roadtoad, I held my statements back before because of time, but would like to explain my thoughts a bit more.
It would never in a million years cross my mind that you would slap KK. That you would ever resort to violence when words would do. Your demeanor and your posts never demonstrated a violent nature. You may have posted in anger. Made insulting/strong statements. But anger doesn't, in my mind, imply violence. I do not confuse the two. They are distinct creatures, like music and noise.
Actually, I am afraid of those who do equate the two, as KK obviously does. They equate it in their mind, that violence is a natural and accepted byproduct of anger. What do such people do when their kids make them angry? What do they do when they get angry in the car? At work? ...
This is where I would like to highlight, underline and bold the difference. Kurious Kathy, where does this assumption come from? Do you have such little respect for us that you'd think any of us would commit such base atrocities?
Or do you simply think violence is a natural part of anger? In which case, it would seem to me that you are projecting the horrors in your life on others as a way of minimizing the ordeals that you may face. For some, it's easier to deal with life when they think that others have it worse and you'd be willing to create the ultimate imagined worse (hell) to make yourself feel better.
Well, let me tell you that you do not need to manufacture a hell to know that some people live it. Consider the horror that a homosexual must face growing up in a fundamentalist family. Think about the pain and torture it is to be rejected as they are. Think about the countless lives that were considered secondary because of slavery. That another person could own another human and remember that such ownership of another was condoned by Jesus.
Think about the Horror of an entire race of people, mercilessly slaughtered. The women, the children. The 2, 3 year olds. All of the kids who were killed at the hands of the Christian conquistadors, all because they viewed the Incas as "savages".
This world is hard, but we have the capacity to make it better. We make it better by doing better and not by wishing the worst. When I die, I want to know I made the world a better place. I do that by the research I do and the life I give my kids. I do that by giving my children hope that they can make the world better. We owe it to our species to let them advance and not wish the end. Your judgment day is nothing more than a selfish wish to have all of life end because your's will one day. I have no respect for that view.
JoeTheJuggler
Penultimate Amazing
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I'm not twisting anything. I'm just thinking through the logical consequences of what you're saying, and I'm running headlong into a contradiction.
If you believe you can't be "indwelt by a demon", you should have absolutely no fear of being possessed.
Yet on another thread you said this:
I ask you if this happens to you a lot, and you replied:
So it seems you are contradicting yourself. You claim it takes vigilance and prayer (or reading and studying the Bible) and not simply faith. You seem to be genuinely afraid of demonic possession, yet your assertion suggests you should have no such fear.
ETA: For the record, the context of those statements on the other thread was in discussing a suicide. You seemed to be saying that if you're not vigilant and fail to keep doing something (prayer or study or whatever) that the devil will take over your thoughts or some such and make you commit suicide.
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Roadtoad
Bufo Caminus Inedibilis
I hope you'll forgive this...
But Kathy won't ever apologize. Not to me, not to anyone on the board. Keep in mind, Hoke, that in Kathy's mind, as long as she's doing it in JESUS name, it's okay. She can lie, she can insult other posters, she can fudge the facts, but what she CANNOT do is accept personal responsibility for her own actions.
Seems to me, according to Chuck Swindoll, (a pastor I have some respect for, even as we disagree), God's forgiveness is contingent on taking personal responsibility for your own conduct. Since Kathy won't, she's not forgiven. Joe the Juggler has actually nailed it.
Which, of course, defines Kathy. If she truly believed in a god, she not only wouldn't have made excuses, nor would she have dismissed anyone's anger, she'd have done precisely the opposite. That, you see, we could respect, and she'd be welcomed here, the same as people like Kittynh.
But, no, it's more important for her to look like a "martyr for Jesus." It makes her look like a hero in the eyes of her fellow church members. Gotta be an FoP, y'know!
'Nuff said.
Hoke, this has nothing to do with your "sin." It's about power. If you actually admitted to being a "sinner," she would be able to claim some hold back at the old homestead church.
Lame.
But Kathy won't ever apologize. Not to me, not to anyone on the board. Keep in mind, Hoke, that in Kathy's mind, as long as she's doing it in JESUS name, it's okay. She can lie, she can insult other posters, she can fudge the facts, but what she CANNOT do is accept personal responsibility for her own actions.
Seems to me, according to Chuck Swindoll, (a pastor I have some respect for, even as we disagree), God's forgiveness is contingent on taking personal responsibility for your own conduct. Since Kathy won't, she's not forgiven. Joe the Juggler has actually nailed it.
Which, of course, defines Kathy. If she truly believed in a god, she not only wouldn't have made excuses, nor would she have dismissed anyone's anger, she'd have done precisely the opposite. That, you see, we could respect, and she'd be welcomed here, the same as people like Kittynh.
But, no, it's more important for her to look like a "martyr for Jesus." It makes her look like a hero in the eyes of her fellow church members. Gotta be an FoP, y'know!
'Nuff said.
Hoke, this has nothing to do with your "sin." It's about power. If you actually admitted to being a "sinner," she would be able to claim some hold back at the old homestead church.
Lame.
Hokulele
Deleterious Slab of Damnation
Oh, absolutely. I think you are spot on with your comments, but I wanted to make it clear to her why I hold these opinions. Whether or not it will have any impact is a different kettle of horses of many colors.
I think it does highlight a fundamental difference in attitude (like the excellent analysis by joobz). As an atheist, I am the only one who can take responsibility for my actions. I cannot pass the blame off on "Satan" or "demons", nor can I simply sit back and sanctimoniously proclaim it "God's will". If I cause harm, it is up to me to accept it and do my level best to fix it.
Anything else seems rather immature to me.
Roadtoad
Bufo Caminus Inedibilis
You've brought up an interesting point.
You've met Peggy, so you know this. While she believes there's a God, while she's of the opinion there may be demons and the like, the first thing she has always made clear is you are responsible for your life. If you've blown it, you admit it. The Devil didn't make you do anything. You made a choice. This crybaby nonsense of excuses accomplishes the exact opposite of what Kathy claims she wants to accomplish.
Hokulele
Deleterious Slab of Damnation
I knew I liked Peggy for a reason.
Kathy, see that kitty who is my avatar? Take a look. Look into his eyes for a while. Try to keep looking. Feel anything?
I'll have you know that this little kitty has more magic, more juju, more power than a thousand of your gods stacked together.
Why, by the mere act of rounding his eyes wide, and issuing a mild and plaintive "meow" he has the power to make me leave whatever I am doing and devote myself to his bidding--usually "give me some milk," or "I need some treats," or simply, "I want to cuddle."
When Judgment Day finally arrives, I implore you, have some milk and treats ready! And be prepared to offer your lap for at least as long as it takes for the purring to stop.
M.
I'll have you know that this little kitty has more magic, more juju, more power than a thousand of your gods stacked together.
Why, by the mere act of rounding his eyes wide, and issuing a mild and plaintive "meow" he has the power to make me leave whatever I am doing and devote myself to his bidding--usually "give me some milk," or "I need some treats," or simply, "I want to cuddle."
When Judgment Day finally arrives, I implore you, have some milk and treats ready! And be prepared to offer your lap for at least as long as it takes for the purring to stop.
M.
Roadtoad
Bufo Caminus Inedibilis
/me looks into kitty's eyes...
Mmmmmmmmmmmiiiiiiilllllllkkkkkkkk.......
Mmmmmmmmmmmiiiiiiilllllllkkkkkkkk.......
I should have added a warning notice to my post. Sorry.
People get so het up about their gods, they completely ignore the power of pussy.
M.
joobz
Tergiversator
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- Aug 31, 2006
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- 17,998
Noooo yoooooouuuuu diiiiiiiddddnnnnn'tttt.