AA77 FDR Data, Explained

[WildCat]

Out of curiosity, why was TF banned? If it was another thread, I'd love to read the posts leading up to it.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130516

No details there, basically he sent abusive PMs to another member. By sheer coincidence, I'm sure, this happened right after he was challenged to post the math behind the CIT/PfffT flight path to prove a 757 could actually fly on the path they claim.

Thread about his banning here: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130585

 

[Bobert]

MacGyver,
You are the perfect example of what occurs when the cult that is the truth movement goes outside their tightnit group and brings an "outside" expert in.
They then turn on that expert once that person realizes what is going on and 99% of the time that expert disagrees with them.
I do give some credit to Turbofan though becaise most of his peers wont do what he did but instead stick with their like minded "experts".

 

[jaydeehess]

TF is busy right now getting the math, physics and aerodynamics correct in the "tech note" and accompanying animation that will show once and for all that a NoC flight path that is consistent with the eyewitness statements is quite possible for a Boeing 757 (or similar) aircraft to have accomplished.

This means that the previously completed, yet not posted on PfT yet, work about the FDR that he was willing to debate about will have to wait.

It does seem to take PfT a long time to come up with new stuff. It is odd that this particular thread began debating the points that TF raised several months ago and still no consise arguement from PfT concerning them.

In the case of the NoC math they have had this request before them for a year (years?) and yet we still have "not much longer to wait".

Curious!

 

[WildCat]

In the case of the NoC math they have had this request before them for a year (years?) and yet we still have "not much longer to wait".

Curious!

They're trying to figure out how a 757 can bank at 70^o at low atitude in a descent and then pull up at the last second... my guess is they'll say it was a blimp with fake wings painted to look like a AA 757.

 

[bje]

They're trying to figure out how a 757 can bank at 70^o at low atitude in a descent and then pull up at the last second... my guess is they'll say it was a blimp with fake wings painted to look like a AA 757.

Blimp?

 

[Scott_Milner]

Hello,

Would anyone here be able to explain why the CSV file data does not match the animation?

I'll admit I didn't read this entire thread as it's too long, however I did try a few search options.

My background is programming and electronics. I'm having a difficult time understanding how a CSV export can differ from the original source file.

 

[Gravy]

Hello,

Would anyone here be able to explain why the CSV file data does not match the animation?

I'll admit I didn't read this entire thread as it's too long, however I did try a few search options.

My background is programming and electronics. I'm having a difficult time understanding how a CSV export can differ from the original source file.

Welcome to the forum, Scott. Whoever put together the animation at the NTSB failed to account for magnetic deviation. When that adjustment is made the animation matches the actual flight path. The NTSB said the animation was a "working copy" which was "never used for an official purpose."

 

[Scott_Milner]

Thank you for the reply. I must have not been clear with my question. Asking a different way:

How does the CSV file data become different than the animation data when exported to CSV format?

As a function of software, the delimited values are derived from the source file.

Thank you.

 

[Gravy]

The data don't change. They have to be mapped to landmarks on the ground. That requires orienting the map the right way.

Here are some details: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69539 \
(Note post 20 where the head of Pilots For Truth is busted for making the same error.)

 

[DavidJames]

Welcome to the forum Scott. If you don't mind me asking what led you here to search for this particular topic?

 

[Reheat]

Thank you for the reply. I must have not been clear with my question. Asking a different way:

How does the CSV file data become different than the animation data when exported to CSV format?

As a function of software, the delimited values are derived from the source file.

Thank you.

This leads me to believe that you think the CSV files is derived from the animation. It isn't, it is extracted from the FDR data. The animation is manually manipulated in an attempt to match the CSV file. The answer Gravy gave you was correct. Why is there confusion?

 

[Reheat]

Note post 20 where the head of Pilots For Truth is busted for making the same error.)

Sniff, sniff, sniff...... Do I smell something?

 

[Gravy]

This leads me to believe that you think the CSV files is derived from the animation.

Ah, good catch. I wasn't thinking that's what Scott was assuming.

 

[Scott_Milner]

This leads me to believe that you think the CSV files is derived from the animation. It isn't, it is extracted from the FDR data. The animation is manually manipulated in an attempt to match the CSV file. The answer Gravy gave you was correct. Why is there confusion?

Not exactly. The CSV file is derived from the flight data, just as the animation.

What is this manual manipulation you are referring to? What software package are you familiar with that requires manual entry to plot the flight path?

 

[Gravy]

The animation is derived from the CSV. The CSV data are correct. Please view the graphics in the thread I linked to above.

 

[Reheat]

Not exactly. The CSV file is derived from the flight data, just as the animation.

What is this manual manipulation you are referring to? What software package are you familiar with that requires manual entry to plot the flight path?

I did not say there was manual entry at all, I said the animation must be manually manipulated to match the CSV. The CSV has no knowledge of the outside world, it is simply numbers. The animation must be manipulated in an attempt to match the outside world in accordance with the numbers from the CSV. The person who did that forgot to consider magnetic variation in the final phase. It is a working copy that was used for nothing Official at all. Why are you so concerned about this?

 

[Scott_Milner]

The animation is derived from the CSV. The CSV data are correct. Please view the graphics in the thread I linked to above.

I'm afraid not.

The animation is uploaded from the flight data recorded file. The CSV is exported from the flight software based on the flight data file.

The graphics you linked above are just photos of the Pentagon area. This does not explain the discrepencies between the animation and CSV file.

What flight analysis software package are you familiar with that requires manual entry of the aircraft data in order to plot the flight path?

 

[Gravy]

I'm afraid not.

The animation is uploaded from the flight data recorded file.

Your source for this claim? It seems unlikely to me, but I have no personal experience with this process.

 

[Dog Town]

I'm afraid not.

Well... that says it all!

 

[Reheat]

I'm afraid not.

The animation is uploaded from the flight data recorded file. The CSV is exported from the flight software based on the flight data file.

The graphics you linked above are just photos of the Pentagon area. This does not explain the discrepencies between the animation and CSV file.

What flight analysis software package are you familiar with that requires manual entry of the aircraft data in order to plot the flight path?

You seem to know a lot more than you hinted at in your initial post. Why don't you tell us what you think the problem MIGHT be. This could go on forever unless you state your point...