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AA77 FDR Data, Explained

You said that your experts would post here and when pressed about who your experts were YOU listed those two men. Now you wish to say they will not post here, that they are not your experts. So you list them when you deem it convienient but minimize them when it isn't.



all of which deal with normal operating conditions. I have seen spikes from discharging capacitors exceed 10 times normal operating voltages when a switching power supply carps out. I have seen protection ccts get destroyed on both ends of a long data line and still not protect the equipment on either end. THAT should not happen. It is analogous to taking a row of stamps and pulling on them and having the perforations between them rip such that the center stamp falls to the floor.




So you have a quote from the NTSB stating as much do you?
PfT has a statement from L3, Santana, Ritter, the NTSB, ICAO, a pilot's union, or a recogized expert in the feild of FDR crash data analysis stating that an FDR cannot, under any circumstances, have the last few seconds of a flight of an intact aircraft be unrecoverable?

Those statements would be listed right next to those of the flyover witnesses and those who saw agents scurrying about with lamp posts I suppose.


Big deal. None of the devices you speak of use Intel Strataflash EERPOM
and require specific intructions and voltages to erase data.

Sorry, you guys need to come up with better theories.

Also keep in mind the NTSB did not conclude missing seconds. This further
supports the research.
 
BTW Turbofan I know you are angry with me but my mother is 68 years old and has Scoliosis.
I have no clue why you choose to bring her up and attempt to insult her in your vile filled PM's to me but really dude please please take your meds.
 
You know Bobert, you can report PMs the same way you can report regular posts if you want, right?

And Turbo, talking about his mother? What the hell is wrong with you? Are you in middle school or something?
 
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Big deal. None of the devices you speak of use Intel Strataflash EERPOM
and require specific intructions and voltages to erase data.

Sorry, you guys need to come up with better theories.

Also keep in mind the NTSB did not conclude missing seconds. This further
supports the research.

Actually the ccts that were destroyed were descrete component ccts and much more robust than an EEPROM of any stripe. Old stuff handles surges and spikes better than the new stuff.

However you seem to have missed the second half of my above post. I reiterate;
So you have a quote from the NTSB stating as much do you?
PfT has a statement from L3, Santana, Ritter, the NTSB, ICAO, a pilot's union, or a recogized expert in the feild of FDR crash data analysis stating that an FDR cannot, under any circumstances, have the last few seconds of a flight of an intact aircraft be unrecoverable?

Those statements would be listed right next to those of the flyover witnesses and those who saw agents scurrying about with lamp posts I suppose.
 
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You know Bobert, you can report PMs the same way you can report regular posts if you want, right?

And Turbo, talking about his mother? What the hell is wrong with you? Are you in middle school or something?

Yes I have reported his PM's. I can show anyone the PM he sent me regarding my mother. I dont know what is wrong with this guy.
I wont continue to comment on this.
I have never contacted him before so I dont know what is wrong with him.
 
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Big deal. None of the devices you speak of use Intel Strataflash EERPOM
and require specific intructions and voltages to erase data.

Sorry, you guys need to come up with better theories.

Also keep in mind the NTSB did not conclude missing seconds. This further
supports the research.
The NTSB does not support your failed ideas. Go ahead and tell the NTSB you think 77 did not impact the Pentagon. The NTSB did not do the Pentagon investigation. Sorry, but the NTSB does not support your ideas and they did not study the FDR for missing seconds, or stopped data, or system failure, or a power failure due to engine problems, they did not comment on the legacy FDR in 77, or the pipeline problems in the early SSFDRs. So you are wrong again, the NTSB does not support any of you conclusions on 9/11. Sorry, you are making up support Balsamo tells you he has, he is not truthful.

You need to explain things a lot better if you are to convince others. So far you just copy and paste electronic junk and make up statements.
 
You still haven't caught onto the fact that electronic circuits are not a piece
of paper upon which you can dump correction fluid.

You must obey the erase procedure required by the EERPOM MFG! Last time
I check, Intel didn't use "WhiteOut" to remove data and reset gates.

I thought you were an electrical engineer Beachnut? Don't you understand?
Just like I have to repeat for mackey, the gates require voltage to reset
to a '1' state, along with a set of instructions which must be confirmed
before the erasure occurs.

I am an electrical engineer, and your post is pure claptrap. You cut and paste and make up a statement of woo about what you want to be true.


You can only call me a liar without explanation. You can only change my posts. You can only cut and paste electronic stuff and make up a statement. This is your version of 11.2 Gs. Balsamo has no clue so you look good to all the physics and electronic challenged p4t members. Good job on that front, they don't understand 11.2 Gs was wrong, they will not have clue you are not supporting your ideas on the FDR.

I was wondering why your experts have not supported your ideas on FDRs?
 
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*sigh*


It's probably been said before: A statement rests on it's own support, not the credentials of whoever said it.

Presuming otherwise is an Appeal to Authority.

Frankly, I beginning to think Turbofan only clings to his "anonymous posters" routine to avoid answering uncomfortable questions.


Again: It does not matter who says something. What matter is whether or not the claim can be supported.

The claim that data can be erased from a recording device can be verified. In fact, it has been verified.

Claiming otherwise just because you don't like the pseudonym under which an individual posts is cowardly.
 
There, i fixed your above quote.

Manipulating other people's quotes is a bannable offense.

And since you use L3 and the NTSB as your experts can you please provide an endorsement from these epxerts of yours showing their support for your claims?
 
CIT didnt draw the flight paths. The witnesses did when filmed on location. If you are going to debate the topic (which is actually off topic), you may want to at least watch the film.


The fact remains, the North Of Citgo flight path is aerodynamically possible. No one can expect a witness to state exact path down to the inch, within knots... etc, except of course JREFers like you?

Make up your minds. If i do the math, its impossible due to witnesses. If i dont do the math, its impossible because i didnt do the math. Bottom line, e^n proved the North of Citgo flight path is aerodynamically possible. Make your minds.

Not possible for Flight 77 to pull 4.77 Gs and be at 77.9 degrees of bank. There is evidence, you have, to prove 77 did not do any of your failed NoC paths. Your witnesses agree 77 hit the Pentagon.
Do you understand flying, or your witnesses? The flight path is impossible for 77 to fly based on the evidence from 9/11 and all the CIT witnesses who never saw 77.9 degrees of bank and 4.77 Gs.

Morin saw the plane on the south side of the Annex, makes your flight path impossible. Your own witness. The rest of your witnesses saw 77 on the south side, they pointed to the "official flight" path.

The maximum bank angle in the last seconds of Flight 77 were under 10 degrees. Verified by witnesses the low bank angle is a fact all the witnesses agree on and verified by the FDR; the NTSB supplied FDR data refutes your failed NoC path.

Balsamo says it is impossible; darn, no 4.77 Gs for Flight 77! Why do you contradict Balsamo?
from the balsamo, at dolts for 9/11 truth, the terrorist apologists -
Transport Category aircraft are limited to 2.5 G's positive and 1.0 negative. Although there is a margin of error built into these limits, it is not anywhere near 448% or 11.2 G's positive. Aerobatic Category Aircraft have a positive G load limit of 6.0 G's. Some may argue that the flight path "just missed" the VDOT Antenna, in which case we also worked out the numbers if the aircraft were at ground level at the antenna. The G loads required would be ~4.3 G's. Still excessive for a transport category aircraft. Not to mention the aircraft certainly was not at ground level abeam the Navy Annex and such G loads were never recorded in the Flight Data provided by the NTSB. Feel free to input the numbers yourself using above calculations as a guide and ground elevation of antenna.
Balsamo says the NoC is impossible.

He also says 11.2 Gs. When will he erase that page of stupid physics?
 
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There, i fixed your above quote.
Don't you wish you could fix the fact that there are no actual FDR experts at PfffT! Nor are there any FDR experts outside of PffffT who support you and your findings.

Wrong, the FDR produces a file with an extension of .fdr.
Really? And how does the FDR know when to produce this file? Does it anticipate the crash and write the file just prior to its destruction?

Many can tell you dont have any experts. Thanks for verifying it. P4T actually gained more core members from this thread. Thanks for the publicity.
No one here is arrogant enough to claim they are experts. Unlike the dolts at PfffT, who all think they're FDR experts, when the reality is there is not a single actual FDR expert among you.

See reply above.
Does this mean that yes, you will weasel out of providing the math to prove your impossible flight path?

There is no such thing as "CIT Flight Path". It is a "Witness Flight Path" drawn by the witnesses filmed on location. When will a JREFer go there and confront these witnesses and tell them they are lying?
No one says they're lying, except you guys of course. We understand they are simply mistaken. It's you guys accusing an elderly cab driver of mass murder and of being a covert government agent. And, of course, you completely ignore all the other witnesses.
 
Those two links have nothing to do with transient protection.

You believe that a zener diode is used for transient surge protection and that simple linear power supplies provide the best filtered voltages?

Wait a second...

Are you saying a zener diode is not used for transient supression/rejection
circuitry

or

Are you saying a zener diode alone is not used for transient supression/
rejection?

Tough to tell, but you must not have read the links I provided?

In either case, please clarify your answer.

P.S. Clueless. If editing a quote is a bannable offense, then why are
90% of you still here? :rolleyes:
 
Hey Turbofan, when again is your fantasy going to hit the news and the perps put on trial?

Oh and where is the flightpath that is consistent with what the CIT eyewitnesses describe and proven possible using math?

So?
 
P.S. Clueless. If editing a quote is a bannable offense, then why are
90% of you still here? :rolleyes:
Wow man are you saying that 90% of those of us who post in this subforum have quoted you and then changed the quote?
That is a pretty heavy allegation!
Care to back it up with EVIDENCE?
Oh wait sorry I forgot EVIDENCE is a foreign concept to you.
 
Wait a second...

Are you saying a zener diode is not used for transient supression/rejection
circuitry

or

Are you saying a zener diode alone is not used for transient supression/
rejection?

Tough to tell, but you must not have read the links I provided?

In either case, please clarify your answer.

zeners are used as one form of voltage clamp. The biggest draw back with a zener is its low power dissipation ability. In other words, its good for small transients but anything large will turn it into either a dead short(good as it would completly remove power, thus protecting the device albeit at the expense of removing the device from operation)
OR
an open cct in which case any remaining energy will now flow into the device(bad, obviously)

There is a trade off in all transient suppression cctry. You want low cost, fast response, survivability, and no effect on the operating device.

Littelfuse has a primer on transient suppression devices .
But that only covers transients on the power bus. Transients on a data bus are a different story. All you can do for a data bus is try to ensure that the voltage never exceeds the "0" and "1" level's of the data. you cannot however ensure that such a thing would not be a "1" when in fact it should have been a "0"

Furthermore all transient surge/spike protection is specifically designed with the excursions that one might normally expect to see in the cct and enviroment that the device is used. There is no way at all to guard against all transients other than shutting the device off and encasing it in a thick metal , grounded , box.

In the chaos of a plane crash at high speed into a somewhat immovable object all bets are off.
 
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Since we all know that PfT and our departed collegue, Turbofan read theses threads, and given that I am banned on PfT, here is another link, this one from Harris, they could peruse concerning surge suppression devices. These are just a tad more useful and complex than Tf's simple zener and transitor ccts.

Of particular interest is the SP72x line of data bus surge suppressors.One might notice that the device simply protects from voltages over V+ or under V- from remaining on the data line. This of course means that any surge over V+ would keep the data line high, well in fact it would keep that data line no higher than V+. What PfT might ignore is that the V+ may also be much higher than it is supposed to be or that V- may well be higher or lower than it normal potential in the event of a violent aircraft crash. There are many ways then that this suppression will fail to guard in such a situation. These devices are designed to guard against surges and spikes that the aircraft might reasonably be expected to encounter in its normal operation. This would include spikes and surges due to lightning strikes on the aircraft, over volatges due to faulty power supplies etc. One can guard against such surges with inductive and capacitive ccts to shunt voltage and current away from sensitive devices along ground and power buses. Such surges would cause the crowbar ccts in the FDR to suspend operation and completely isolate itself from the rest of the aircraft until normal power values were restored. During such time the FDR records but there is no data. This though takes time to implement and the data just prior to the isloatiing of the FDR may be suspect. Of course in a crash there will not be time for an isolation from the aircraft systems.

You also cannot use inductive or capacitive devices on a data bus because they will corrupt the shape of data pulses. All you can do to a data bus is limit the voltages to within a diode drop value of the nominal 'high' and 'low' values. For instance, if a data 'high' is 5 volts, surge suppressors on a data bus (or control, register, interrupt, address) will not stop a surge from leaving causing a 'high' to be present forever.

However the main thing is that the aircraft would be considered to be intact. There would be no consideration for all the combinations and permutations of gound, data line and power line spikes and surges that could accompany a violent end to the aircraft. That is because it probably cannot be done and if it could it would be prohibative in terms of weight, size and cost per unit.

The fact that FDR's have lost data in the past even in aircraft that were intact but had mechanical control problems and the information supplied by the poster known here as MacgyverS2000 illustrates that it is hardly the great mystery that PfT attempts to make it.

TF and PfT would demand an exacting, detailed description of how this particular FDR lost or corrupted several seconds of data. On the other hand they believe that the aircraft flew over the SE corner of the Navy Annex, banked left to take it north of the Citgo while desending to tree top level near the Citgo, which is itself downhill from the Annex, leveling out both the bank and the desent and then pulling up and over the Pentagon at the (generally recognized) impact point. The last part, the pulling up and over, supposedly hidden from the view of onlookers by the fireball.

The irony is that to date no one at PfT or CiT, despite their claims to expertise, has bothered to do any calculations that would illustrate that such an aircraft can perform this manouvering. They demand exacting details of how the FDR lost data but will not apply the same level of detail to themselves.
 
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TF is now banned ?! :shocked: :p

And I will soooooooo miss arguing with someone who cannot concede a point. :rolleyes: It's a shame some people can't be reintegrated into the universe as nothing more than unstructured matter... more oxygen for those of us able to use that lump some call a brain.

If you guys come across any fun and useful arguments that require a Double-E's background, you know where to find me.




Out of curiosity, why was TF banned? If it was another thread, I'd love to read the posts leading up to it.
 

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