Nurse suspended for prayer offer

It is the nurse facing discipline claiming they were "delighted", not the patients themselves.

Well said, and a damn good point. After what else could the silly nurse say?

She's deluded, sack her I say.....hangings to good for them............hang on, where's me meds gone?. Ah found 'em............well I think a suspension during the enquiry is something that you have to do.

It protects her and protects the trust, while the facts are figured out.....ah stuff it, just sack her. Find an excuse, anything..........:D
 
Wouldn't you know, a Norwegian midwife is in trouble for pretty much the same reason:D!

A woman offered a curse-laden sentence during childbirth, and the midwife told her to stop cursing and recommended prayer. She told the mother, translated, that to lie there and call upon the devil would only result in greater injuries, and that she then would deserve a tough birth, but that if she wanted, they could all turn towards another and ask Him for help. Then maybe the childbirth would go better.

A complaint has been sent to the health district.

http://www.bt.no/innenriks/article784810.ece (Norwegian)
 
My father, who is an atheist and battling lymphoma, when asked by an in-hospital interfaith representatitve if he would like to be prayed for, replied, "Not to the same guy who's trying to kill me, I hope". They didn't come back around after that.
 
I had a cousin who at the age of 10 or 11 developed a particularly nasty form of liver cancer. My aunt and uncle decided not to tell him at first, until they could assess the potential treatments, their possibility of success, etc.

My cousin was in a Catholic hospital. Not long after the diagnosis, a nun came into his room and gushed, "Isn't it wonderful? You're going to live with Jesus!"
 
I heard an item yesterday morning about this.The fiirst reaction of the lady on hearing the question "Shall I pray for you?" was to think "Oh no ,am i that far gone?"
 
I heard an item yesterday morning about this.The fiirst reaction of the lady on hearing the question "Shall I pray for you?" was to think "Oh no ,am i that far gone?"

Pretty much what my reaction would be,

Nursey Nursey : "I can say a prayer for you if you like"
Ickle Kitten : "Huh! Parsnips? The Consultant said it was routine, like nothing to worry about."
NN: "Either way I will pray for you."
IK : "ARRRGH where is that waiver I signed I want to read the small print, and a second opinion, can I visit the library to look up the procedure, - Kernal Panic"

In general, I believe the reaction unless has been stated is a repeat offense is overkill, but then in a lot of places suspension can be immediate on any complaint whether it is upheld or not.
 
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I think it's absolutely inappropriate to express religious belief to patients or mix religion and work. The one thing has nothing to do with the other. So she needs to be told not to do it. I hope it doesn't go as far as her losing her job though. Hopefully this will end in a sensible "leave your personal beliefs at home" lecture and she can get on with her job. A good nurse is more valuable than the principle of avoiding offence.


Others agree with you --"we don't want God-bothering brought in to the workplace. The concern is this might happen" - from an Industrial Society survey, following The Turnbull Report, 1993*

However, in my days in the NHS, we were encouraged to express our personal faith if we felt it might offer comfort to a client. It was a personal judgment call. I very much doubt any disciplinary action will ensue...

* If you are unaware what the workplace in question was ---
It was a comment in the survey frequently recorded, and the employees in question were the staff of the Church of England.

cj x
 
We/you don't know that, however someone thought someone might be..........so no not yet she hasn't.

Just sack her, end of problem, and a strong message to the religious to keep their personal deluded nonsense out of the work place, forever thanks. Ok that's a bit OTT maybe, but hell why not?..lol
Because sacking someone undeservedly is not a good thing to do. Although, depending on the circumstances, about which I know little, she could have crossed the line of what is appropriate and deserve the action. It’s possible there was more to it than was reported in the brief article linked in the OP.

It's an outright assumption that it's ok to ask to start with isn't it?, and completely inaproppriate.
Yes, it’s an assumption that it’s okay to ask. Asking doesn’t hurt. What harm was done by her making the request?
Then you are blind. If she want s be a preacher, be a preacher.
If you want to be a nurse do that...
I don’t think that a nurse asking if a patient would like her to pray for them is the equivalent of the nurse wanting to be or acting like a preacher. I think you are seeing things that aren’t there.
But using your position as a person who is highly likely to come in contact with vunerable sections of the community to pray for them comes into the realm of religion picking on the old, the weak, and the young.

It does this because in a moment of doubt or weakness it may infect the possibly uninfected mind of the victim.

Yes, victim, and yes infect are the correct terms to use.

C'mon Beth, you do know better than this surely?

I think your response is completely over the top. The nurse has ‘victimized’ her patients by asking them if they would like her to perform an additional service at no charge? She might ‘infect’ them with the meme for religion? You talk as if they’ve never been exposed to it elsewhere!

I look at it this way, it’s a reasonable conjecture that some of her patients would appreciate the gesture. It doesn’t harm those who aren’t interested. They can decline without any repercussion. OTOH, I don’t think it would appropriate for a patient to make the request. I think it’s okay for her to offer but not okay for them to ask because I don’t think it would be appropriate for the patient to make any request of their nurse regarding what something to be done during their off hours, whether it be prayer or something else entirely.
 
If a nurse offered to pray for me (even back when I was religious), it would just worry me that I was in worse shape than I thought I was.
 
I don’t think it would appropriate for a patient to make the request. I think it’s okay for her to offer but not okay for them to ask because I don’t think it would be appropriate for the patient to make any request of their nurse regarding what something to be done during their off hours, whether it be prayer or something else entirely.

I have disagree with that. I can't see anything wrong at all with a patient making a request for the nurse to pray with them.
 
I have disagree with that. I can't see anything wrong at all with a patient making a request for the nurse to pray with them.

Well, if it's something to be done during the nurses working hours, you have a point. I was thinking of the nurse praying for the patient during her off hours. OTOH, if the patient requests it, is the nurse allowed to refuse? And how would you feel about the nurse being paid, perhaps from public funds, for her time spent praying with the patient?
 
Well, if it's something to be done during the nurses working hours, you have a point. I was thinking of the nurse praying for the patient during her off hours.
:confused:
Why?

What relevance does that have to this issue?

OTOH, if the patient requests it, is the nurse allowed to refuse?
Did you major in rhetoric?

Of course a nurse is allowed to refuse to provide a service that they have no expertise in... they are obliged to refuse...

However, nurses are equally obliged to consult with and enlist the aid of any parties qualified to administer to the physical and emotional needs of a patient

And how would you feel about the nurse being paid, perhaps from public funds, for her time spent praying with the patient?
Doh! Teh rhetoric... it burnz

Seriously Beth... do you need to believe that all those who deny your woo are vile, despicable, baby-munching bastards?
 
Asking doesn’t hurt. What harm was done by her making the request?
Others have stated that the simple request may cause them to become alarmed that things are worse than told, so there could definitely be harm in that.

As a non-believer, I would really get ticked if someone offered to pray for me. I would honestly wonder what I did or said that made them think I believed in something so utterly ridiculous. Do I look stupid or something? I must be sicker than I thought! Either way, I think there's definite harm in offending someone or raising their blood pressure, as they're trying desperately to avoid a religious debate with the otherwise nice-seeming nurse.

I can see a nurse making the offer if the homeowner has displayed a cross or a picture of Jesus in the house, and she has reason to believe their brand of jesus-loving is the exact same brand as hers. Even if it's a nice gesture in that case, it's certainly not in the job description, and is best avoided.

I honestly can't imagine a patient asking a visiting nurse to pray with them or for them either on or off the clock (although I'm sure it happens). Why would anyone assume that a virtual stranger believes in the same favor-granting skydaddy, unless you already knew them from church?
 
Well, if it's something to be done during the nurses working hours, you have a point. I was thinking of the nurse praying for the patient during her off hours.
What six7s said. There's no harm in asking another human being to pray for you at your time of need, if that's the sort of thing that's important to you. On the job or off, all they need do is say "no".

OTOH, if the patient requests it, is the nurse allowed to refuse?
That depends on the rules of the hospital. I would imagine that since it is not part of the job, yes, the nurse certainly could. A Christian-run hospital might have different rules.

In the same vein, no rule prevents a patient from asking a nurse for her phone number, yet it does not obligate her to give it.

And how would you feel about the nurse being paid, perhaps from public funds, for her time spent praying with the patient?
I would consider it part of the emotional care of the patient. Were I in the same position, I would pray with them if requested. If at the very least it provides a little emotional comfort it's a plus, and to do so inflicts no harm whatsoever on me.
 
Caroline Petrie has admitted that she was previously cautioned for breaching equality and diversity regulations, received remedial training and was warned she could face formal disciplinary action if she repeated her behaviour. She was specifically told she could only discuss religious topics with patients if they brought it up first.



Last October Mrs Petrie was reprimanded for offering a small, homemade prayer card to an elderly male patient who had happily accepted it.

The patient’s carer had raised concerns, and Mrs Petrie was sent a letter which said: “Your NMC [Nursing Midwifery Council] code states that ‘you must demonstrate a personal and professional commitment to equality and diversity’ and ‘you must not use your professional status to promote causes that are not related to health’.”

The letter warned: “If there is any further similar incident it may be treated as potential misconduct and the formal disciplinary procedure could be instigated.”

Mrs Petrie was asked to attend an ‘equality and diversity’ course following the incident.

“I stopped handing out prayer cards after that but I found it more and more difficult [not to offer them]. My concern is for the person as a whole, not just their health.

“I was told not to force my faith on anyone but I could respond if patients themselves brought up the subject [of religion].”

She also claims her prayers actually cure people 's medical conditions, citing a "Catholic woman" whose urinary infection cleared up "a few days" after Petrie said a prayer for her. (Doctors and medicines clearly get no love from her.)

This seems a straightforward case of an employee wilfully disregarding her conditions of employment.

She doesnt agree with the regulations because she believes she can perform magic cures in addition to what the NHS offers. They have told her not to offer these cures but she does it again anyway.

How is this case different from a nurse offering patients her homemade homeopathic remedies, or offering to make a voodoo cure?

Her behaviour is clearly inappropriate but Nurse Petire doesnt see why she should have top follow the rules when she is doing so much "good". Whatever disciplinary measures are taken against her, she has only herself to blame.
 
:confused:
Why?

What relevance does that have to this issue?
I thought that was what the nurse was doing - asking permission to pray for them during her off hours.

Seriously Beth... do you need to believe that all those who deny your woo are vile, despicable, baby-munching bastards?
Er, no. I don't think I made any reference to their dietary preferences. :p Do you assume that everyone that disagrees with you is a believer? I'm agnostic.

What six7s said. There's no harm in asking another human being to pray for you at your time of need, if that's the sort of thing that's important to you. On the job or off, all they need do is say "no".

I would consider it part of the emotional care of the patient. Were I in the same position, I would pray with them if requested. If at the very least it provides a little emotional comfort it's a plus, and to do so inflicts no harm whatsoever on me.
Okay. Different people have different ways of looking at things. I see the nurse making the offer as less likely to cause problems/offense than the patient doing so.
 
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