The Phoenix Lights... We Are Not Alone

I don't care what kind of quantum physics or technical jargon you put here. But the reason I'm her is jref. If you have a bit of common know how,..you know the AF didn't perform exercises of that magnitude over phoenix.
 
chuck4842 said:
"It could have been the entire formation dropping what flares they had left so it could be more than two aircraft as the source. " ......No it couldn't!
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How can you say that with such certainty? Feel free to elaborate. Just to make it clear what I meant was that it is possible that the lights in the 10PM videos could have been flares from more than two aircraft and you stated, absolutely, that it could not.
 
chuck4842 said:
If you have a bit of common know how,..you know the AF didn't perform exercises of that magnitude over phoenix.
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I have stated what I know based on the facts and information we have available. Again, I am not sure what you are talking about:

1) A formation of five tutor aircraft from Canada (which is my theory based on the readers digest article) on a training flight to Tuscon from Nellis does not constitute an "exercise" of any significant magnitude. It is an overflight and they happen every day. The USAF would have nothing to do with the flight other than they used the US air bases for their start and end points. The rest would be under the jurisdication of the FAA and the enroute ATC.

2) The flare drops did not happen over Phoenix and were part of an exercise 30-60 miles south-southwest of Phoenix over the Barry Goldwater test range, which is a military operating area designed specifically for this kind of stuff. They happen on a regular basis there.

I am not sure how you get the idea either of these events are of some significant magnitude that the USAF would never do this. Only if it involved some super secret highly sophisticated mile-wide aircraft with stealth technology would I agree with you on this point. However, I have never stated this was the case.
 
I guess because I've been to alot of airshows at AF bases. I'll research it if you want me to, but are you sure you saw the video? Did that look like more than 1 "Tutor" now instead of A10 warthogs declared by the AF?
 
Like I said before, You've already made your mind up and there is nothing I can show to change it. You refuse to accept the actual evidence.
 
Dang, my nickname should be changed to schooler by now. Did I mention I was drunk and do this part-time ? Hi mom!
 
chuck4842 said:
I don't care what kind of quantum physics or technical jargon you put here. But the reason I'm her is jref. If you have a bit of common know how,..you know the AF didn't perform exercises of that magnitude over phoenix.
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True enough. They were 50 or so miles away, on the other side of the mountains.
 
TjW said:
True enough. They were 50 or so miles away, on the other side of the mountains.
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Please dude ,...don't interrupt. There is enough proffesionals , let Astro bury me first and then you can have at it. unless you agree with me:p
 
chuck4842 said:
I guess because I've been to alot of airshows at AF bases. I'll research it if you want me to, but are you sure you saw the video? Did that look like more than 1 "Tutor" now instead of A10 warthogs declared by the AF?
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I have been to a lot of air shows in my life. My father was in naval aviation and I love going to air shows. So, I can readily identify military aircraft.

I don't think you fully grasp what I have stated over and over. To summarize and make it as clear as I can:

1)The flight of aircraft that produced the 8-8:30PM V-shaped object were Tutors based on the report in the Readers digest article (and they match what Stanley described). They flew from Nellis AFB in Las Vegas, NV to Davis-Monthan AFB in Tuscon. I never stated they were A-10s and the USAF never stated that A-10s flew OVER Phoenix that night. This flight is the one we are talking about when we are discussing flying from Kingman to Tuscon.

2) The A-10s were used in the exercise that dropped flares to the south of Phoenix that night that produced the 10PM videos. They were operating out of Davis-Monthan in Tuscon. They flew out of Davis Monthan and returned there after they were done with their exercise on the Goldwater test range.

Is this too hard to understand?

BTW, your name says you are a "scholar" now on my browser. Congratulations.
 
"2) The A-10s were used in the exercise that dropped flares to the south of Phoenix that night that produced the 10PM videos. They were operating out of Davis-Monthan in Tuscon" .....I thought this was the current debate. I said no way 2 and u said "Tutors" and I said that aint the AF report U provided.
 
I'm tired and going to bed now. I'm drinking ..a little and swear I cant tell your explanation from one comment to the next. It may be because you are to sober, but I will wake up in the morning and explain all this to myself again . But drunk or not, I must study "Tutor" good night
 
"I am not sure how you get the idea either of these events are of some significant magnitude that the USAF would never do this. Only if it involved some super secret highly sophisticated mile-wide aircraft with stealth technology would I agree with you on this point. However, I have never stated this was the case" You just did state it dude! LOL.....come out of the wormhole.
 
One more thing before I go to bed. Did your best evidence witness Mitch Stanley, identify a fast moving plane formation through his telescope or a slow moving formation?
 
Akhenaten said:
An A10 stalls at about 135 mph. Why do you make things up?
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You're right, I started getting confused with the 220kmh stall speed covering 200 miles, still thats kind of close and slow for a bomber squadron which it wasn't. Astro is saying the V-formation were C-114 Tutors(Snowbirds), I don't know how I missed this before either, but it's now coming together, the Snowbirds have lights in their nose, can fly very accurately close at slow, which may appear as "blimp speed". I'm now going to see if I can find any records of canadian AF in the area, the snowbirds have a range of only 400 miles. I can only think of one use for them and that's air shows. Which they certainly did that!:D
 
Astro says thes flights take place every day, and utube is full of videos of them so I guess hes right. But there are plenty of witnesses claiming the V flew "over" Phoenix including the ex governor. I've yet to see video evidence of this. But here's a very interesting vid of a recent V in Phoenix, like I said utube is full of 'em. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvFwzSqY3dM&feature=related
 
Astrophotographer said:
How can you say that with such certainty? Feel free to elaborate. Just to make it clear what I meant was that it is possible that the lights in the 10PM videos could have been flares from more than two aircraft and you stated, absolutely, that it could not.
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I just don't see how more than one can drop them (flares)when they appear to be in perfect formation. Equal distances apart. Also wasn't the af explanation that they were dumping their leftovers? Why would one pilot "dump" his and say ok I'm outta here, the next pilot says hey I'm going to catch up to your previous location and drop mine in sequence with yours and so on. The warthogs weren't equipped with GPS in 1997 were they? I thought that was more recent, hell I can't remember what all I've read recently and hope I don't come off as rude.
 
chuck4842 said:
One more thing before I go to bed. Did your best evidence witness Mitch Stanley, identify a fast moving plane formation through his telescope or a slow moving formation?
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The air formation was moving at a high ground speed but due to its altitude, it's angular speed (the apparent speed to an observer) would have been low. Do the math. An aircraft moving 400 mph at 20,000 feet would appear to a ground observer to be moving at the same speed as an aircraft moving at 40 mph at 2000 feet or 20 mph at 1000 feet.
 
chuck4842 said:
You're right, I started getting confused with the 220kmh stall speed covering 200 miles, still thats kind of close and slow for a bomber squadron which it wasn't. Astro is saying the V-formation were C-114 Tutors(Snowbirds), I don't know how I missed this before either, but it's now coming together, the Snowbirds have lights in their nose, can fly very accurately close at slow, which may appear as "blimp speed". I'm now going to see if I can find any records of canadian AF in the area, the snowbirds have a range of only 400 miles. I can only think of one use for them and that's air shows. Which they certainly did that!:D
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The snowbirds are specially designed Tutors. According to this website (http://www.rcaf.com/aircraft/trainers/tutor/index.php?name=Tutor) the range is greater (940 miles). The Tutors were training aircraft used by the Canadain AF in 1997. They do not have to be the Snowbirds demonstration team.
 
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