Have you ever been sexually assaulted?

[Skeptic Ginger]

Zel, no one is arguing what you've wasted time defending.

 

[tyr_13]

Good post.

...Off-topic but I can't help but notice that at least 10 topics on page 1 are related to sex one way or another. Wonder what's going on with JREFers... autumn fever?

The topics all come at once. First it was all 'Police are evil they shot this guy,' then it was, 'guns are evil', then, 'the US is evil for xyz plus crazy' and now it's sex. Go figure.

 

[Cobalt]

Yeah, once when I was younger. Male. I'd rather not discuss though.

 

[Pardalis]

It is only relevant to the female committing forcible rape of an adult male. Again, of those who seem to think it occurs, no one has presented much evidence.

Again, you started this thread asking for examples of sexual assault, not necessarily rape. Now for some reason you've changed the subject and are now asking about adult females raping adult males.

That's because rape, in your view, is solely forced penetration, and since that would make women by default incapable of raping, since they don't have a penis at hand except the victim's (thus making the forced penetration on themselves, which wouldn't be rape), so in essence that makes your entire premise biased, because the only possible examples you are asking for can only be a man forcing himself onto a female.

 

[DanishDynamite]

Just answer honestly so we might get a rough idea what the real incident of sexual assault is. The relevant discussion is in this thread: False allegations and attrition.

As assault does not need to have been completed but should clearly have been with the intent to force one to have sex.

No, I never have. I did have a lot of fantasies about my German teacher in High School forcing herself on me, though.

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

Again, you started this thread asking for examples of sexual assault, not necessarily rape. Now for some reason you've changed the subject and are now asking about adult females raping adult males.

That's because rape, in your view, is solely forced penetration, and since that would make women by default incapable of raping, since they don't have a penis at hand except the victim's (thus making the forced penetration on themselves, which wouldn't be rape), so in essence that makes your entire premise biased, because the only possible examples you are asking for can only be a man forcing himself onto a female.

This is not a correct summary of Skeptigirl's stated position.

 

[DanishDynamite]

This is not a correct summary of Skeptigirl's stated position.

Pray tell us what is.

 

[Molinaro]

Could it be that this poll indicates that people who have been sexualy assaulted are more likely to vote in polls about sexual assault?

 

[DanishDynamite]

Could it be that this poll indicates that people who have been sexualy assaulted are more likely to vote in polls about sexual assault?

What makes you think so?

 

[GreNME]

I just cannot overcome my skepticism that adult women raping adult men amounts to more than a couple cases of guys with regrets upon awakening or sobering up. I'm not saying the men had no right to expect not to be molested when they were 'out', but I fear the claim of women raping men has been highly over-rated here.

Switch the genders and you basically have the kind of mentality that keeps three of four sexual assault victims from reporting the crimes.

Teenage boys maybe. But adult men get erections because they are aroused. Women are not aroused when they are raped.

I merely asked for evidence it actually happens. I was open to the possibility given how many people here seem to believe it is possible. But now I am even less convinced. WHERE'S THE EVIDENCE IT HAPPENS? I'll keep an open mind to the drunk or asleep molestation, but that really doesn't fit the bill for the kind of forced rape being claimed here that occurs female on male.

No one has questioned the possibility of this. You and Pard both seem to be expanding the subject here into all these other claims and judgements I have not made.

You're simply wrong here, and (as has been pointed out) you're displaying an abysmal understanding of the physiology. Erections-- as has already been pointed out using numerous sources, which you have yet to acknowledge-- can be induced as a reflex in (most) men.

Since that, as well as the occurrence of probability that male or female victims of rape can experience unwanted climaxes, seems to be part of the crux in your continual displays of incredulity-- I call it incredulity (not skepticism) because you've continued denying the likelihood even after examples were given, then dismissing some examples (like alcohol or drugs)-- I think you owe it to those who have taken the time to show you fairly reliable evidence (like WebMD et al) to acknowledge that at least parts of your initial impressions may have been based on an incorrect or mistaken set of assumptions of data. I've searched the thread pages and saw no acknowledgment that your demands of proof-- both of uncontrollable erections and unwanted physical stimulation-- were indeed met, or that the introduction of this information has made any appreciable difference in your initial incredulity.

Personal issues with some posters aside, you made some pretty outrageously incorrect claims based on faulty assumptions that clearly colored your conclusions. The main individual here being done a disservice here is yourself by not openly acknowledging it.

I agree with what Fiona posted a couple pages back: there's no empirical evidence that women and men are equally violent or aggressive or prone to assault, and arguments claiming that are taking umbrage too far in the opposing direction to dismissal of the concept that women can, indeed, have a propensity toward violent, aggressive, or sexually assaulting behavior. There are usually differences in how they are acted out or manifest, so attempts to equate them are flawed from the start. There are several factors tat go into comparisons, and whether the individual is male or female is only one part of those factors. Hence this whole line of debate reeks of unnecessarily divisive argument that ignores the more prevalent factors that lead to dangerous or antisocial aggression in people.

 

[ImaginalDisc]

Civilization bongo bongo bongo comes to mind when I hear uncivilized.

Those alleged lyrics must have been transcribed by a distractable deaf person.

Ahem.

 

[Lonewulf]

Those alleged lyrics must have been transcribed by a distractable deaf person.

Ahem.

Thank you; I was searching quickly and didn't know the lyrics myself.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Again, you started this thread asking for examples of sexual assault, not necessarily rape. Now for some reason you've changed the subject and are now asking about adult females raping adult males.

That's because rape, in your view, is solely forced penetration, and since that would make women by default incapable of raping, since they don't have a penis at hand except the victim's (thus making the forced penetration on themselves, which wouldn't be rape), so in essence that makes your entire premise biased, because the only possible examples you are asking for can only be a man forcing himself onto a female.

You can project all you want but that is not my view.

I merely stated my skepticism of the view that people in this thread seemed to so readily accept for what I think are purely PC and not evidence based reasons that women could force a man to have an erection and rape him. The more evidence I see, the more I am convinced it doesn't happen. It is a myth people here seem to be accepting on purely PC grounds.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Pray tell us what is.

I have not argued against women being potentially guilty of statutory rape. I have not argued against the wrongness of women taking advantage of sleeping or intoxicated men. I have not argued against the potential of a woman to assault a man including sexual assault involving anal penetration with an object. All I have questioned is the myth that an adult woman could force an unwilling man to have an erection and subsequently proceed to rape that man.

I'm willing to change that conclusion based on evidence. So far the only evidence presented was a well known HIV myth.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Switch the genders and you basically have the kind of mentality that keeps three of four sexual assault victims from reporting the crimes.

You refer to women victims of sexual assault. There is no evidence we need apply this to men.

You're simply wrong here, and (as has been pointed out) you're displaying an abysmal understanding of the physiology. Erections-- as has already been pointed out using numerous sources, which you have yet to acknowledge-- can be induced as a reflex in (most) men.

In teens during puberty. Is there a source this continues throughout adulthood?

So are we to believe a man who is physically aroused by a woman who proceeds to have sex with him has been forced? And are we to believe this is the equivalent of a woman who is forcibly raped? Should we believe she was really sexually aroused by an act of violence which forcible rape is known to be?

Since that, as well as the occurrence of probability that male or female victims of rape can experience unwanted climaxes,

EXCUSE ME! Do you have evidence any woman had a climax during a forcible rape? Bull $#!+! Show us a source supporting this myth.

Personal issues with some posters aside, you made some pretty outrageously incorrect claims based on faulty assumptions that clearly colored your conclusions. The main individual here being done a disservice here is yourself by not openly acknowledging it.

Talk about outrageously incorrect conclusions. You have repeated the myth that a woman can be sexually aroused during a forcible rape. Forcible rape has been clearly shown to be an act of violence, not an act of sex. You have no evidence to support your mythical belief.

I agree with what Fiona posted a couple pages back: there's no empirical evidence that women and men are equally violent or aggressive or prone to assault,

Nonsense! The evidence is clear. Just look at gender, murder and injury rates of victims and assailants.

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

You can project all you want but that is not my view.

I merely stated my skepticism of the view that people in this thread seemed to so readily accept for what I think are purely PC and not evidence based reasons that women could force a man to have an erection and rape him. The more evidence I see, the more I am convinced it doesn't happen. It is a myth people here seem to be accepting on purely PC grounds.

You've already been shown claims from the medical literature that erection and orgasm in men can result from mechanical stimulation, and also that these functions aren't fully under conscious control. Those medical claims have been backed up by statements from a few different men in this thread already based on their personal experiences with their own organs. So I can't see how you can still think that it's impossible as a matter of biology for a man to experience tumescence and orgasm while being the victim of rape, just as a woman might experience arousal and orgasm while being the victim of rape.

If you aren't arguing that it's biologically impossible, given that we've already had at least one anecdotal report of exactly this happening, on what basis can you say "it doesn't happen"? It's almost certainly not nearly as common as other forms of rape, but I think we've got a very strong case here that sometimes women do successfully have sex with men without the man's consent, which by definition is rape.

The fact that there are silly urban myths about similar events doesn't mean that less silly events can't happen. Some criminal gangs do have initiation rituals, for example, even though the urban myths about gangsters flashing their headlights at people and killing them if they flash their headlights back are a load of rubbish.

ETA: You may have missed this link earlier, since you also expressed skepticism of the claim that women could experience arousal/orgasm during rape:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15261004

With regard to female sexual violence towards men, see:

http://www.springerlink.com/content/h4038x61400l8273/?p=f4627938f6ee449bad67bc5f803aebf8

 

[Lonewulf]

In teens during puberty. Is there a source this continues throughout adulthood?

Sigh.

Yeap, I'm a liar I guess.

Skeptigirl, continuing the fine art of androgyny.

Hey, Skeptigirl, can you reference a study for me that the sun will rise in the morning, or that women can grow hair?

Until you do, they can't exist.

 

[tyr_13]

You refer to women victims of sexual assault. There is no evidence we need apply this to men.

Yes, yes there is. Men are raped. What about that don't you get? Even if you don't believe men aren't raped (which they are), you can't possibly be so incredulous to say that men aren't victims of sexual assault.

So are we to believe a man who is physically aroused by a woman who proceeds to have sex with him has been forced? And are we to believe this is the equivalent of a woman who is forcibly raped? Should we believe she was really sexually aroused by an act of violence which forcible rape is known to be?

Are we to believe that women who have been coerced into sex isn't in any way equivalent of women who have been forcibly raped? One form of rape isn't bad?

Yes. We are to believe that a man who is physically aroused by a woman who proceeds to have sex with him has been forced in some situation. Obviously not every time but it can, and does, happen.

Yes, we are to believe that a man being raped is the equivalent of a woman being raped. Unless you are sexist and believe women are more valuable then men.

After all this evidence presented, I'm no longer afraid to say it. Skeptigirl, you're acting like a sexist woman. All rape is wrong.

 

[my_wan]

All I have questioned is the myth that an adult woman could force an unwilling man to have an erection and subsequently proceed to rape that man.

I am a man.
Yes, you can induce an erection against the will of a guy quiet easily. (Nurses often know how to kill one even quicker ). I wonder, do you have control of your nipples? Does it always mean you are horny? I suspect it is very similar to a guys erection. The notion that an erection always means horny is like assuming that people laugh when you tickle them because it's funny.
http://www.rvap.org/pages/for_male_survivors/

Yes, a guy can pee with an erection. It's a bit more difficult but I can't count the times I have had to sit to pee.

There is also the issue of lesbian rape. The content is too graphic to post but you can video google a documentary about it by searching "She Stole My Voice".

 

[Pardalis]

You can project all you want but that is not my view.

I merely stated my skepticism of the view that people in this thread seemed to so readily accept for what I think are purely PC and not evidence based reasons that women could force a man to have an erection and rape him. The more evidence I see, the more I am convinced it doesn't happen. It is a myth people here seem to be accepting on purely PC grounds.

Again, why did you change the subject from "sexual assault" to "adult females raping adult males"?

You've shrunk the issue to the one specific issue that will always allow women to avoid scrutiny, and make men always the guilty party. You're trying to compare apples and oranges in order to make apples appear in a better light. Of course more men will rape by penetration simply because of biology. What you need to do in order to compare both sexes' propensity for sexual violence (not just rape, because as I just said, penetration is biologically a male thing, in order to rape a man, a women needs to penetrate herself, thus making the definition of rape as "forceful penetration" void, since the act of penetration is done to the assailant herself.) is either you redefine the word "rape" or you broaden your definition to "sexual assault", and if you want to do a proper scientific comparison, you need similar circumstances, in equal opportunity. This link seems to say that 1 in 4 lesbian relationship result in violence, although it doesn't give a working link. But it would be a good place to start.

http://members.tripod.com/rape_pathfinder_help-ivil/rapecrisispathfinderonlineresources/id20.html