Have you ever been sexually assaulted?

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

It's worth stressing that while sexual assault among adults is mainly man-on-woman and, to a lesser extent, man-on-man, children of both sexes are equally vulnerable to molestation and incest.

There are statistics to suggest that the rate of adult female survivors of molestation to adult male survivors would be close to 50-50 if boys and the men they grow up to be weren't more hesitant to report both abuse at the hands of a man and from a woman.

So the number of male rape victims walking among us is likely to be more than the numbers show, if you count in molestation victims.

I know that if I were a parent, this would be one of the few areas of life where I would be just as concerned about my son as my daughter.

 

[Zelenius]

One form of rape being extremely rare and counterintuitive doesn't make it any less real or traumatic than the more common form of rape.

 

[Dragoonster]

In teens during puberty. Is there a source this continues throughout adulthood?

Dozens of males have said in this forum that it does, including one as a result of rape. Links to medical and psychological proof that it happens has been given. You're calling all of us liars, as well as numerous professionals.

So are we to believe a man who is physically aroused by a woman who proceeds to have sex with him has been forced? And are we to believe this is the equivalent of a woman who is forcibly raped? Should we believe she was really sexually aroused by an act of violence which forcible rape is known to be?

EXCUSE ME! Do you have evidence any woman had a climax during a forcible rape? Bull $#!+! Show us a source supporting this myth.

Your view is the minority, and just plain ignorant. Check your local rape hotline (well, the center itself to avoid tying up the phones) or call them up and ask them if sexual arousal or orgasm is possible among rape victims. Google it. Google for rape counseling websites and see what they say. I just Googled for my local center and here's what it says on the "myths" page:

http://www.mtryrapecrisis.org/myths.htm

13. If the victim had an orgasm, it must have been consensual.
FACT: This myth is especially prevalent for men whose bodies physical reactions seem to betray their emotions. Rape is traumatic and we all respond differently to fear. Orgasms are not always directly related to emotional responses.

Please, feel free to continue calling us liars, and feel free to contact my local crisis center and yours to tell them they're wrong. I'm sure they haven't formed their response and counseling to actual events in their field of expertise, so your telling them that what they believe are myths should shape them right up. It'll also help clear up the phone lines--if new victims said they had an orgasm or other physical arousal reactions, the hotline agent can simply hang up, knowing that this isn't possible and it wasn't really a rape.

 

[PhantomWolf]

Thought this would be interesting to throw into the mix.

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

<snip>

All I have questioned is the myth that an adult woman could force an unwilling man to have an erection and subsequently proceed to rape that man.

I'm willing to change that conclusion based on evidence. So far the only evidence presented was a well known HIV myth.

And again, SG ignores the evidence which does not fit her worldview.

http://www.springerlink.com/content/g142011518831450/

Summary

Smooth muscle relaxation of penile arteries, the corpus cavernosum, and the corpus spongiosum, leading to penile erection, results from parasympathetic neural pathway activation and, likely, simultaneous inhibition of sympathetic outflow. Proerectile parasympathetic outflow is reflexively activated by sensory information of peripheral origin, conveyed by the dorsal penile nerve, and reflexive erections are supported by an intraspinal circuitry. Supraspinal influences modulate the reflex. Information integrated at or originating from supraspinal structures may also elicit penile erection. Several neurotransmitters are involved in either the modulation of the spinal reflex or the mediation of supraspinal influences. Spinal cord injury differently alters reflexive penile erection or erection from a central origin, depending on the neurologic level of injury.

 

[gumboot]

For what it's worth, in New Zealand there is technically no crime of "rape" although the term is used commonly. The offense is "sexual violation" which is define as either rape (must be vaginal penetration of the victim by the offender's penis) or any sexual connection without consent.

Further, if consent is gained through any threat, there is no lawful consent and it is likewise sexual violation.

The account I posted of the Marine would qualify was sexual violation and would (should) be treated in a New Zealand court as identical to rape.

Bear in mind that in New Zealand often multiple charges are laid for the one offense (what is so remarkable is that despite this fact our crime rate is still substantially lower than many countries that only lay a charge for the most serious act committed) - there is no requirement of violence for sexual violation to occur and if violence occurred in conjunction with the sexual violation (as is often the case) the offender would usually face separate assault/indecent assault/assault with a weapon, etc charges.

 

[gumboot]

Thought this would be interesting to throw into the mix.

Thanks for that. I find the comments by the women in the study to be absolutely horrific. Just imagine if a study of men produced similar feedback about accounts of a man raping a woman while she was asleep.

The hypocrisy that is displayed when the topic of female-male rape is raised is truly staggering. We think we're such an advanced, equal culture.

Here's what I think...

Take any scenario of alleged rape, and flip the gender roles around. If you think it's rape one way, but not the other, you're a sexist POS. Simple as that.

 

[Lonewulf]

Thanks for that. I find the comments by the women in the study to be absolutely horrific. Just imagine if a study of men produced similar feedback about accounts of a man raping a woman while she was asleep.

The hypocrisy that is displayed when the topic of female-male rape is raised is truly staggering. We think we're such an advanced, equal culture.

Here's what I think...

Take any scenario of alleged rape, and flip the gender roles around. If you think it's rape one way, but not the other, you're a sexist POS. Simple as that.

I DO find it amusing, the claim that the men are "wanting" it and thus weren't raped, no matter what they actually say...

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I DO find it amusing, the claim that the men are "wanting" it and thus weren't raped, no matter what they actually say...

More straw man arguments. First you have to find some evidence rape ever occurs this way before you can consider the "wanted it" issue. I've said it doesn't appear there is any evidence it occurs, not that if it occurred the man must have wanted it.

It's been claimed in this thread that women can be aroused during rape. Rape is usually an act of violence, not one of sex. Even with date rape once force is involved, sexual pleasure for the woman ends. The rapist may believe differently. That is part of the rapist mindset. It seems to me some of you are falsely implying women can be aroused during a rape. I'd like to see some evidence of that. My understanding is that is not true.

 

[Legend]

Just like it is your understanding that men can't get an erection before/while getting/being raped, despite your gender?

You have a wide understanding.

Your word is not Gospel.

 

[Professor Yaffle]

More straw man arguments. First you have to find some evidence rape ever occurs this way before you can consider the "wanted it" issue. I've said it doesn't appear there is any evidence it occurs, not that if it occurred the man must have wanted it.

It's been claimed in this thread that women can be aroused during rape. Rape is usually an act of violence, not one of sex. Even with date rape once force is involved, sexual pleasure for the woman ends. The rapist may believe differently. That is part of the rapist mindset. It seems to me some of you are falsely implying women can be aroused during a rape. I'd like to see some evidence of that. My understanding is that is not true.

And yet you seem to have managed to miss seeing the evidence when it has been posted on the thread. So I'll post this link that has already been posted on this thread twice:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15261004

ETA: I have access to the full text, so I can send it to you if you don't have access.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Thought this would be interesting to throw into the mix.

From your link:

female sexual coercion...presented the women with a story

This is an interesting discussion of values but offers no evidence and the scenario of raping a sleeping man who doesn't wake up is not very plausible.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

A lot of you keep complaining about my position here. I remind you again, I have merely asked for evidence and no one has found any. You are all attacking me for being skeptical but the reasons you state for the attacks are straw men.

 

[Professor Yaffle]

From that paper:

Ensink and Van Berlo26 interviewed female victims
about the traumatic sequelae of their sexual assault. In
this study, one of the questions asked was about physical
response and/or lubrication during the assault (this
part of the study has not yet been published). The
wording of the question was It sometimes happens that
women physically respond to sexual assault. This means
that it seems that they are physically aroused or become
lubricated, although they find the experience dreadful.
Physically responding definitely does not mean that the
assault experience is sexually exciting for you. It could
also be a reaction of anxiety. Rapists sometimes exploit
this and say: She enjoyed it herself!

Did you experience a physical response?

Out of 58 victims, 12 (21%) answered ‘‘yes’’ to this
question although they experienced (mentally) the assault
as dreadful. The mean age of these 12 victims was
32 (range 19–44 years). Ten were penetrated vaginally
during the assault and 9 were asaulted by someone they
knew. Six victims felt attracted to the perpetrator before
the rape. Eight of the rapists tried to sexually arouse the
woman. The assaults took place between one month and
three years before the interview (mean: 10.7 months).
Eleven out of the twelve rapists used violence to affect​

the assault which was excessive in two cases.

​

​

​

​

 

[Legend]

A lot of you keep complaining about my position here. I remind you again, I have merely asked for evidence and no one has found any. You are all attacking me for being skeptical but the reasons you state for the attacks are straw men.

But you yourself are just sitting there, apparently immune to this need for proof and evidence, merely stating an uninformed, inexperienced (due to gender) opinion.

Anyways,
Alex.

 

[Professor Yaffle]

A lot of you keep complaining about my position here. I remind you again, I have merely asked for evidence and no one has found any. You are all attacking me for being skeptical but the reasons you state for the attacks are straw men.

Except that you have gone a little further than just remaining skeptical. You have outright stated that you do not believe that a woman can be aroused while being raped. People have presented the evidence that they can, and you have managed to avoid seeing the link which has been posted more than once.

 

[Lonewulf]

A lot of you keep complaining about my position here. I remind you again, I have merely asked for evidence and no one has found any. You are all attacking me for being skeptical but the reasons you state for the attacks are straw men.

I have quoted you on where you said, specifically, that men cannot have an erection without, as you call it, "arousal". Given the context, it was obvious you were suggesting that the man would have to have been perfectly interested in sex with the woman to have the erection in the first place. As you "put it bluntly"... how does she get that flaccid thing in? Of course, when someone told you how, you conveniently ignored it, to suit your own obvious sexist preferences (which I don't believe for one minute that you don't have, sorry).

Further, the "My my but you boys..." comment was far and beyond "mere skepticism". It was outright bigoted. Period.

Sorry, but I just don't believe you that you "merely" asked for evidence.

Furthermore, when evidence has been presented, and it has been demonstrated that we know that we can gain erections without being mentally "aroused" thanks to simple outside elements (which would be perfectly possible to take advantage of), you then ignore such things and then claim that nothing has been presented. When you do respond to evidence, you focus on a very small portion of it, and then furthermore claim that the person mentioned was probably lying, dismissing it out of hand.

So no. I don't believe you at all. Either you're lying or you've deluded yourself; which ultimately, is the same thing, just with a different target...

 

[Professor Yaffle]

Also from that review:​

Sarrel and Masters20 collected a case series where adult males molested by women who used forced assaults, physical restraint or believable threats of physical violence, responded sexually with an erection and were forced to undertake coital activity.​

Did they collect a case series of something that never happens, or are you willing to accept that you were wrong?

 

[tyr_13]

A lot of you keep complaining about my position here. I remind you again, I have merely asked for evidence and no one has found any. You are all attacking me for being skeptical but the reasons you state for the attacks are straw men.

Why is it that you believe we are all lying? That these professionals are lying? That these medical reports are lying?

Do you have some sort of expertise with the penis in a wide variety of situations, including coerced and forced situations, that disprove what we are saying? Are you such an expert with the penis, and have a data set that includes more men than the studies cited, that you can rule them invalid? Why do you think you know exactly how the penis reacts, and how other women react during rape?

 

[Morrigan]

In teens during puberty. Is there a source this continues throughout adulthood?

Are you willfully blind? Men in this thread have stated it and have even posted medical literature about it.

So are we to believe a man who is physically aroused by a woman who proceeds to have sex with him has been forced?

Why the hell not?

And are we to believe this is the equivalent of a woman who is forcibly raped? Should we believe she was really sexually aroused by an act of violence which forcible rape is known to be?

What's the difference between "forcible rape" and just plain "rape"?
Anyway, for the last time, physical arousal does not mean consent.

EXCUSE ME! Do you have evidence any woman had a climax during a forcible rape? Bull $#!+! Show us a source supporting this myth.

Talk about outrageously incorrect conclusions. You have repeated the myth that a woman can be sexually aroused during a forcible rape. Forcible rape has been clearly shown to be an act of violence, not an act of sex. You have no evidence to support your mythical belief.

Sources have been given already (you just conveniently ignored them), and honestly, the only one parroting myths around here is you. To claim that women cannot orgasm when raped IS a myth.

Why do you presume to know how the body of every single woman works? This is really insulting. Very insulting to rape victims who happened to have physical reactions they didn't control, too.

It's been claimed in this thread that women can be aroused during rape. Rape is usually an act of violence, not one of sex.

1) Rape can certainly be both. It's coerced sex. If there were nothing sexual about it, we wouldn't be having this discussion at all.
2) Rape isn't always violent.

Even with date rape once force is involved, sexual pleasure for the woman ends.

Why are you conflating physical signs of arousal (e.g. lubrification, orgasms) with pleasure, now? You think that just because her body reacts in certain ways, the raped woman is enjoying herself? For crying out loud...