• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Heiwa's Pizza Box Experiment

Lennart Hyland said:
Wow heiwa.... I'm stunned.

So you honest think that you can make a fair and representative model of the WTC using pizzaboxes?
Click to expand...
Yup, but don't forget the carpet cutter to
represent a bolted connection
Click to expand...
and don't forget about the toppings
weights of the pizzas to be adjusted to suit wall stresses and weight of impactor.
Click to expand...
 
nicepants said:
Will the results of your experiment change depending on:
A) The scale of the experiment?
Click to expand...

Heiwa said:
A. No. My experiment is full scale.
Click to expand...

Full-scale would be 110 stories tall by 208 feet wide.

nicepants said:
Will the results of your experiment change depending on the materials used in the experiment?
Click to expand...

Heiwa said:
B. No. You can use any material as long as the wall stresses/buckling properties and the floor/wall connections are representative
Click to expand...

Please show the calculations you performed to ensure that the stresses/buckling properties of cardboard and the floor/wall connections of the pizza boxes were representative (to scale) of WTC1/WTC2.

nicepants said:
Will the results of your experiment change depending on:
C) The type of construction used?
Click to expand...

Heiwa said:
C. No.
Click to expand...

According to your answers (no to all 3)...we should be able to create any size model we want, using any type of construction we want, out of any material we want, and the results will always be the same. Is that correct?
 
Last edited:
Heiwa said:
A. No. My experiment is full scale. It is a 3.5 m tower
Click to expand...
unless the WTC was a lot shorter than everyone thought i dont think your experiment is full scale

B. No. Card board in my case. You can use any material as long as the wall stresses/buckling properties and the floor/wall connections are representative*. Lower box walls may have to be reinforced or at least adjusted. You might have to reduce the thickness of the floors at the walls (just cut the cardboard a little with a carpet cutter (!)) to represent a bolted connection (no transfer of bending moment).
Click to expand...
so the material used CAN affect the results? thats 2 wrong

C. No. Glued together pizza boxes with pizzas in my case. The weights of the pizzas to be adjusted to suit wall stresses and weight of impactor.
Click to expand...
so weight also matters, 0 for 3
 
Giggywig said:
Everybody knows you can make the computer say anything you want, but pizza boxes never lie.
Click to expand...
pizzabox.jpg

I really hope you are wrong about the pizza boxes.
 
The best point made here was that "you can't scale down gravity" , or words to that effect. It's true.

I recall the "Thunderbirds" puppet adventure series way back. They had scaled-down ships that failed to create scaled-down waves. Those damn waves would just not scale down and it looked all wrong.
 
Heiwa said:
Not really. A pizza box is as you suggest a cargo shipping container. There are also cargo shipping containers of steel that you can stack on top of another. Say that you can stack 12 steel containers of 40 tons each on top of one another in a ship. The load on the ship structure is then 480 tons, the load on the bottom container is 440 ton and the load on the second container on top is 40 tons, etc. Say that you place a 13th container on top of the stack and that the bottom container loaded with 440 ton cannot resist it. What happens? Evidently the bottom container and what's in it is crushed.

Now drop the 13th container from a certain height x on the stack. What do you think happens? Does all 12 containers disintegrate into dust? According Bazant that is what would happen, but it doesn't.

Bazant's theory is really absurd.
Click to expand...


Speaking of absurdities, can you explain why an ant can fall a distance several times its own size without injuring itself, while an elephant's legs would break if it were lifted up and dropped two feet?

Yes, this is a rhetorical question. We all understand that you CAN'T explain--you are, in fact, conspicuously incapable of explaining--why the two results are different.
 
nicepants said:
Full-scale would be 110 stories tall by 208 feet wide.





Please show the calculations you performed to ensure that the stresses/buckling properties of cardboard and the floor/wall connections of the pizza boxes were representative (to scale) of WTC1/WTC2.





According to your answers (no to all 3)...we should be able to create any size model we want, using any type of construction we want, out of any material we want, and the results will always be the same. Is that correct?
Click to expand...

Scale does not matter in Bazant's hypothesis. Crystal glass dropping on marble table top causes global collapse of marble top while (rigid!) crystal glass remains intact (until marble top has been compressed to infinite density below - then crystal glass is crushed up!
Stresses/buckling/floor connection properties do not matter in Bazant's hypothesis.
Bazant's hypothesis should be applicable to any structure, top of which drops on the lower part, yes.

It is quite simple actually to debunk Bazant. Have a pizza party.
 
Heiwa said:
According Bazant, if you drop a crystal glass on a marble table top, the crystal glass (the small dropped part) shall remain intact and the marble table top (the structure below) shall globally collapse.
Click to expand...

Bazant never said anything about crystal glasses and/or marble countertops.

You are lying.
 
I have just completed modeling a car accident using scale models of two vehicles. The first is a Matchbox Dodge Challenger (1993 series) and a Matchbox Suzuki Swift Sport (2007 series).

Slamming the two together at scaled speed of over one hundred miles per hour, I can safely say that at any non-relativistic speed that can be handled by the experimental set-up, the two cars rebound off of each other. After careful examination of both vehicles after numerous test impacts, no damage to the vehicles could be located apart from scratched paint.

Consequently, I have concluded that all automobile accidents have been faked, and the models made of every accident reconstructionist who has even testified at trial is wrong.
 
I would like to suggest a new model:

Use lengths of straight dried spaghetti for the vertical columns and ryvita for the floor sections and connect the pieces with syrup and allow to dry.

Still not representative but a good deal closer in construction than pizza boxes.
 
While responding to this thread, everyone should take note that Heiwa is utilizing physics from a fantasy world, not the laws of physics as we know in reality. Adjust your posts accordingly.
 
Heiwa said:
C. No. Glued together pizza boxes with pizzas in my case. The weights of the pizzas to be adjusted to suit wall stresses and weight of impactor.
Click to expand...

How does your model account for calzones? :confused:
 
Heiwa said:
1. The Pizza Tower is just there only to confirm the Bazant hypothesis. Evidently the lower 95 boxes do not disintegrate, when you drop another 15 boxes on them. <snip>
Click to expand...

A quick and easy experiment:
Go to the top of a very tall building (or bridge, or whatever.) Drop a pizza box over the edge. Count the number of pieces the box disintegrates into when it hits the ground.
Repeat the process, but this time use a chunk of concrete.
Compare the results.

Let us know what you discover, and what your hypothesis is as to why the two results are different.
 
Blackwell said:
A quick and easy experiment:
Go to the top of a very tall building (or bridge, or whatever.) Drop a pizza box over the edge. Count the number of pieces the box disintegrates into when it hits the ground.
Repeat the process, but this time use a chunk of concrete.
Compare the results.

Let us know what you discover, and what your hypothesis is as to why the two results are different.
Click to expand...

Nice! I await his explanation.
 
Blackwell said:
A quick and easy experiment:
Go to the top of a very tall building (or bridge, or whatever.) Drop a pizza box over the edge. Count the number of pieces the box disintegrates into when it hits the ground.
Repeat the process, but this time use a chunk of concrete.
Compare the results.

Let us know what you discover, and what your hypothesis is as to why the two results are different.
Click to expand...

In all fairness, can he fashion the concrete into the shape of a pizza box?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom