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Heiwa's Pizza Box Experiment

Heiwa (I"m asking this directly because you didn't give a straight answer last time):

Do you agree that the results of your experiment will change depending on:
A) The scale of the experiment?
B) The materials used in the experiment?
C) The type of construction used?
 
Why would a pizza box experiment be better than a computer simulation such as the one by Purdue University Scientists?

 
N.Texas said:
Why would a pizza box experiment be better than a computer simulation such as the one by Purdue University Scientists?

Click to expand...
Everybody knows you can make the computer say anything you want, but pizza boxes never lie.
 
Grizzly Bear said:
Among many other factors Heiwa needs a material that can accurately scale down the strength of steel to the size he wants to model. Mackey brought this up rather well in the thread this originated from. My favorite analogy is the Hercules beetle and your average joe. The beetle might be able to carry 20 times its own weight but the average joe can barely lift double his own. It's about proportion... Good luck getting Heiwa to accurately measure that though :\
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To prevent this thread from degenerating any further:

The question ,therefore, is what material would accurately scale down to the strength of the steel used in the WTC?
Could Mackey, or others, design an appropriate experiment so we can end the speculation?
 
TheLoneBedouin said:
The question ,therefore, is what material would accurately scale down to the strength of the steel used in the WTC?
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No it isn't. The question is how someone who is supposedly a qualified engineer can possibly think a stack of cardboard boxes is valid model of a skyscraper, and how people who are apparently adults with educations and jobs can possibly take such claims seriously.

Of course, the really important question is whether you can make the pizza boxes airtight in order to keep the gravity out.
 
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So Heiwa you are saying that dropping 15 pizza boxes on 1 pizza box is just the same as dropping 15 concrete floors on 1 concrete floor?
 
applecorped said:
1. How do steel containers turn into dust?
2. Are you suggesting that both towers turned into dust? I recall lots of large debris.
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1. According Bazant it should happen! Material and construction, etc do not matter in his 1-D theory. You can also forget Newton!

2. WTC1/2 were 83% concrete/gypsum/glass, etc. and 17% steel weight wise and say 90% concreter/gypsum/glass, etc. and 10% steel volume wise.
But only the steel in the columns (like a bird cage) that carried the vertical loads were subject to the Bazant theory. Only the steel columns were hit by the upper block (mostly concrete/gypsum/glass) and absorbed all the energy and the steel columns broke like spaghetti according the Bazant top down CD theory. That's the debris.

The strange formation of dust as seen on all videos of the remaining 90% of material is a mystery. Nothing really hit all that material - it just dropped on itself by gravity. Should in my opinion not create this fountain of debris and dust. Actually steel structures do not collapse due to gravity if you drop something on them (energy applied from outside) so it seems the energy came from inside the towers themselves.
 
nicepants said:
Heiwa (I"m asking this directly because you didn't give a straight answer last time):

Do you agree that the results of your experiment will change depending on:
A) The scale of the experiment?
B) The materials used in the experiment?
C) The type of construction used?
Click to expand...

The purpose of the Pizza Tower experiment is to verify the Bazant fustian hypothesis, BFH. BFH is independent of scale, material and type of construction, so if WTC1 inevitably collapses acccording to Bazant, the Pizza Tower should also. But it won't. Check yourself. Have a pizza party.
 
Lennart Hyland said:
So Heiwa you are saying that dropping 15 pizza boxes on 1 pizza box is just the same as dropping 15 concrete floors on 1 concrete floor?
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Yes - a kilogram of cotton drops at the same speed as kilogram of lead ... or a gram of lead for that matter ... in vaccum of course. Gravity, you know.

Dropping 15 lead bars of one kilogram each on one big, 15 kg (or 1 kg - your choice) bale of cotton is another interesting experiment. Pls try it and report the result.

Then reverse the experiment - drop the 15 (or 1) kg bale of cotton on the 15 lead bars.

Whatever, when a lead bar of any weight hits a bale of cotton of any weight, or vice versa, two forces develop; F is acting on the bale of cotton and -F is acting on the bar of lead according Newton (but not Bazant).

Newton is not a PhD. Bazant is. Who shall we believe?
 
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Heiwa said:
Yes - a kilogram of cotton drops at the same speed as kilogram of lead ... or a gram of lead for that matter ... in vaccum of course. Gravity, you know.
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Aren't you forgetting something important? Something called Mass???:)
 
I dropped a pizza box on a bunch of pizza boxex and nothing happened.

This proves that when I drop a crystal glass on a bunch of crystal glasses they wouldn't break.

This proves that if I dropped a car 20' on a bunch of cars nothing would bend or get broke.

This proves that if you jumped out a three story window and landed on your friend you'd all just laugh and walk away.

This proves if I dropped a pane of glass onto a glass counter it would not break.

This proves that somebody here is incredibly stupid.
 
roger said:
I dropped a pizza box on a bunch of pizza boxex and nothing happened.

This proves that when I drop a crystal glass on a bunch of crystal glasses they wouldn't break.

This proves that if I dropped a car 20' on a bunch of cars nothing would bend or get broke.

This proves that if you jumped out a three story window and landed on your friend you'd all just laugh and walk away.

This proves if I dropped a pane of glass onto a glass counter it would not break.

This proves that somebody here is incredibly stupid.
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According Bazant, if you drop a crystal glass on a marble table top, the crystal glass (the small dropped part) shall remain intact and the marble table top (the structure below) shall globally collapse.

You got it! Bazant is incredibly stupid. But do not forget NIST!
 
I dropped a brick on 50 grapes. This proves that the official story is true... the towers should have collapsed (and it's valid, because if you scaled it up, and changed the materials, it would be the WTC)

... but where's the wine???
 
Heiwa said:
The purpose of the Pizza Tower experiment is to verify the Bazant fustian hypothesis, BFH. BFH is independent of scale, material and type of construction, so if WTC1 inevitably collapses acccording to Bazant, the Pizza Tower should also. But it won't. Check yourself. Have a pizza party.
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This does not answer the questions I asked:

Will the results of your experiment change depending on:
A) The scale of the experiment?
B) The materials used in the experiment?
C) The type of construction used?

3 questions...please provide 3 separate yes/no answers.
(Note that my question does not mention Bazant or his hypothesis...only your experiment)
 
nicepants said:
This does not answer the questions I asked:

Will the results of your experiment change depending on:
A) The scale of the experiment?
B) The materials used in the experiment?
C) The type of construction used?

3 questions...please provide 3 separate yes/no answers.
(Note that my question does not mention Bazant or his hypothesis...only your experiment)
Click to expand...



EDIT: I was wrong.
 
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Can debunkers make their own (real life) experiment to prove Bazant? I am not talking about computer programs, where we do not even know the parameters.
 
nicepants said:
This does not answer the questions I asked:

Will the results of your experiment change depending on:
A) The scale of the experiment?
B) The materials used in the experiment?
C) The type of construction used?

3 questions...please provide 3 separate yes/no answers.
(Note that my question does not mention Bazant or his hypothesis...only your experiment)
Click to expand...

A. No. My experiment is full scale. It is a 3.5 m tower (95 boxes) with an 0.5 m pizza impactor (15 boxes) on top. You can probably do a bigger/smaller model but the pizza boxes must be adjusted accordingly. In my area they are about 60x60x3.6 cms or about 1/100th of a WTC1 floor = quite good = that's how I got the idea!
B. No. Card board in my case. You can use any material as long as the wall stresses/buckling properties and the floor/wall connections are representative*. Lower box walls may have to be reinforced or at least adjusted. You might have to reduce the thickness of the floors at the walls (just cut the cardboard a little with a carpet cutter (!)) to represent a bolted connection (no transfer of bending moment).
C. No. Glued together pizza boxes with pizzas in my case. The weights of the pizzas to be adjusted to suit wall stresses and weight of impactor.

*I can provide details.

Thanks for starting this thread.
 
If the pizza box tower doesn't collapse within thirty minutes, is it free?
 
Wow heiwa.... I'm stunned.

So you honest think that you can make a fair and representative model of the WTC using pizzaboxes?
 
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