Bigfoot - The Patterson-Gimlin Film

[Crowlogic]

One way or another, Bigfooters need to find some way to deal with the fact that their belief is irrational and unreasonable. Maybe you have done this and the result is that you get on Internet forums and talk to skeptics as if they are the ones with a problem.

This brings up an interesting point. Exactly why should Bigfooters give up their belief no matter how misguided or irrational? Assuming lightning did somehow strike the minds of every footer at once and all of a sudden there was no more belief in Bigfoot. Would that change the human condition in any meaningful way? Is there the possibility that there is an untapped genius among the ranks of the Bigfooters whose genius is being being laid to waist by Footery? Are there vast fortunes of treasure, mind, science and soul being funneled away from human betterment because of Footery?

For decades I labored under the misconception that somehow if an absoloute truth could be put in universal terms that the human condition would somehow blossom into the "potential" that the poets dream. It dawned on me one day that none of it mattered worth a fig. The Greek gods came and went, the Renaissance came and went, the so called son of god came and went, the war to end all wars came and went, the New Deal, The Fair Deal, JFK, LBJ, the moonshot, the transistor, the bloody internet put that in it too. And guess what? None of it has had a lasting or much of a material effect on the better angels of the human species. None of it! Not one molecule rubbed off!

So a couple of thousand middle aged folks need to change their belief system? For what? What is there to believe in? All of the great beliefs have been put on the table and none of it has mattered. But I'll tell you what. I'll throw in a little wisdom I picked up somewhere under a hot sun and parched landscape. The only thing that's worth having a belief in is the knowledge that we are beings on our way to our own deaths. Stack that up against Bigfoot belief or any of the other tripe we waste our beliefs in and see if it holds a serious candle to the the last lights out.

 

[superbu]

BobZenor occasionally cranks out some good stuff on BFF.

Weird action at the upper thigh...

That's the weirdest one. There's movement in the thigh, but no movement in the buttocks at all. It almost looks as if... as if the leg goes up underneath the buttocks instead of being attached. Why no muscle movement in the buttocks? It looks like... well, frankly, like the butt is STUFFED. (Where is Sir Mix-a-Lot when you need him?)

 

[William Parcher]

Unicorn Skeptic: What is it gonna take to confirm the existence of these things?
Lu: Sumpter loved tomatoes. He had a garden full of them which he tended to with love and devotion. It was located just outside the guest bedroom.

 

[William Parcher]

It looks like... well, frankly, like the butt is STUFFED. (Where is Sir Mix-a-Lot when you need him?)

Oh. Mah. Gawd. Roger. Look. At. Her. Butt.

 

[mangler]

I know a guy who can track, trap, collar, name and play with a single wolverine that has a range of 730 sq. miles, one of a species with a population far less than that of the proposed subject, go figure.

Can track and kill every animal on earth (including man) for the last 20,000 years (give or take) but can’t find a bigfoot to put in the zoo.

Bigfoot population numbers contradict the sighting numbers. They chase people and shake cars, peek in windows, trash cabins and houses, swim in lakes, play in rivers, frolic in/across mountain meadows, fling dogs, eat pancakes, stalk humans, throw rocks, lay in roads and much, much more. About the only thing they haven’t been seen to do is throw pigs. What gives with that?

It seems so obvious to me now. They have somehow managed to infiltrate our society; they are among us in our cities and towns, they live in our neighborhoods. Who will be next, when, where, whose child will scream the words? Words that will forever send all bigfooters running for cover “mommy, there’s a big monkey outside throwing the pig”.


BTW Lu,

Bigfoot being nocturnal is highly unlikely, maybe a form of crepuscular, cathemeral activity is possibly exhibited but I doubt they are nocturnal. It is believed that they show a few nocturnal traits but that certainly doesn’t make them nocturnal. One of many arguments against it would be the use of facial expressions as a form of communication.


m

 

[bruto]

I know a guy who can track, trap, collar, name and play with a single wolverine that has a range of 730 sq. miles, one of a species with a population far less than that of the proposed subject, go figure.

Can track and kill every animal on earth (including man) for the last 20,000 years (give or take) but can’t find a bigfoot to put in the zoo.

Bigfoot population numbers contradict the sighting numbers. They chase people and shake cars, peek in windows, trash cabins and houses, swim in lakes, play in rivers, frolic in/across mountain meadows, fling dogs, eat pancakes, stalk humans, throw rocks, lay in roads and much, much more. About the only thing they haven’t been seen to do is throw pigs. What gives with that?

It seems so obvious to me now. They have somehow managed to infiltrate our society; they are among us in our cities and towns, they live in our neighborhoods. Who will be next, when, where, whose child will scream the words? Words that will forever send all bigfooters running for cover “mommy, there’s a big monkey outside throwing the pig”.


BTW Lu,

Bigfoot being nocturnal is highly unlikely, maybe a form of crepuscular, cathemeral activity is possibly exhibited but I doubt they are nocturnal. It is believed that they show a few nocturnal traits but that certainly doesn’t make them nocturnal. One of many arguments against it would be the use of facial expressions as a form of communication.


m

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_826448d1d722b34b1.jpg[/qimg]

I keep telling you, they've moved to Whitehall, N.Y. and blended in with the population. Tough little ol' turntable town. They don't need to throw pigs. Remember that Bob Dylan song about the railroad men who smoke your eyelids and punch your cigarette? Squatches, man.

 

[LTC8K6]

Duckfoot in motion with a really strange looking foot sole...

Patty's odd feet are still heel and toeing just like I do though, imo.

Yet we have mostly completely flat tracks...

Somebody already said that...

We also have Krantz and Meldrum, etc., going out of their way to create a strange foot structure and motion, when Patty is very clearly walking just like any other human would walk.

 

[RayG]

Who's supposing they're in close proximity to humans on a regular basis?

Well if they weren't there wouldn't be "hundreds of U.S. sightings reported every year".

We just had a visit from the director of MABRC. He might be better qualified to answer those questions.

Better qualified? Why, because he has a bigfoot hat?

RayG

 

[LTC8K6]

W: Now, okay, so you then gave up and you took the plaster tracks. How deep were these tracks by the way, in inches? Inch and a quarter or ....

B: Some of them were down as far as three and a half inches deep into the softer soil. These particular ones we took here were, weren't quite so deep because they were flatter tracks.

In the 1967 interview they already realize the casts are problematic. Gimlin explains that there were proper looking tracks there for such a biped, but they only cast the "flatter" ones...

The casts Roger is shown holding could not possibly have been made by Patty walking as she does in the PGF, imo.

 

[LTC8K6]

B: After chasing them up and down the road for a little while and finally catching them, well we talked it over and I said I'd check around and see if maybe that I could find some tracks where she had come into this area and possibly sight the other one, so I took the camera while he gathered up his stuff and ..

W: You scouted around for a while did you? Well when did you ..were you able to identify specifically the tracks you had made while you were following her?

R: Yes, because immediately after we went across the creek and immediately after I called Bob back we looked at the tracks and they were, the tracks were there .

W: These are the tracks we saw in the movie tonight.

R: That's right.

I find this exchange quite curious. First we have Gimlin taking the reloaded camera from Roger and going off by himself to scout around. He doesn't say he's going to film Patty's tracks. He says he is going to see if he can find the tracks where Patty came into the site, and to see if he can see "the other one".

Presumably he, like Titmus, could not find such arrival tracks as there is no film or mention of any. So how did Patty get to the spot where Roger ran into her?

We also have Gimlin riding off alone for a possible encounter with another bigfoot with a camera in his hands instead of his rifle. No mention of Roger covering him... is Bob riding with his bolt-action 06 in one hand and the Kodak in the other???

Then we have the curious, to me, question from the interviewer. He asks if they found their own tracks, where they followed Patty, and not Patty's tracks. Why would they need to scout around to find tracks they themselves made 10 minutes ago? Or to find 10 minute old sasquatch tracks for that matter.

He asks about "the tracks you had made while you were following her?" So he is not talking about the tracks they cast, but their own tracks.

Strange line of questioning (were you able to identify specifically the tracks you had made while you were following her?) which Roger apparently tries to steer back to Patty's tracks from the movie.

The thing is, Gimlin wasn't looking for the tracks they or Patty had just made, but the tracks Patty must have made prior to the encounter, and he presumably didn't find any.

 

[LTC8K6]

That part of Gimlin's tale seems realistic as far as what you would logically do. Backtrack the creature to find out where it came from in hopes of finding another one. Go back to where you first saw it, and see where it came from.

Little is mentioned of where Patty came from, though...

 

[drapier]

There are accounts of them being shot and killed, one (to my knowledge) of a possible body being found, hundreds of U.S. sightings reported every year (except from Hawaii), and physical evidence already mentioned.

Excellent news! When will the DNA results be in?

 

[captain koolaid]

I find this exchange quite curious. First we have Gimlin taking the reloaded camera from Roger and going off by himself to scout around. He doesn't say he's going to film Patty's tracks. He says he is going to see if he can find the tracks where Patty came into the site, and to see if he can see "the other one".

Presumably he, like Titmus, could not find such arrival tracks as there is no film or mention of any. So how did Patty get to the spot where Roger ran into her?

We also have Gimlin riding off alone for a possible encounter with another bigfoot with a camera in his hands instead of his rifle. No mention of Roger covering him... is Bob riding with his bolt-action 06 in one hand and the Kodak in the other???

Then we have the curious, to me, question from the interviewer. He asks if they found their own tracks, where they followed Patty, and not Patty's tracks. Why would they need to scout around to find tracks they themselves made 10 minutes ago? Or to find 10 minute old sasquatch tracks for that matter.

He asks about "the tracks you had made while you were following her?" So he is not talking about the tracks they cast, but their own tracks.

Strange line of questioning (were you able to identify specifically the tracks you had made while you were following her?) which Roger apparently tries to steer back to Patty's tracks from the movie.

The thing is, Gimlin wasn't looking for the tracks they or Patty had just made, but the tracks Patty must have made prior to the encounter, and he presumably didn't find any.

BG and RP both had scabbards attached to their horses. So Bob taking off with camera in hand is fine, so long as he remains on horseback, or remains within arm's reach if dismounted. That's not going to work though if(when) the horse spooks and bolts. Tend to grant BG a fair amount of leeway, in this regard, as he claimed to have not been a believer IIRC, at least until Patty waltzed by. Though you'd think he'd be a lot more concerned, at this point. RP and his 303 however, is a whole other story.

Regarding the other points, the contradictions and holes in the tracking saga just pile up. However, just because there weren't any lead-in tracks doesn't mean it was a hoax. Patty could of walked in the stream, using her Ninja-Bigfoot skilz. Or she may have teleported in...

It could have happened.

 

[LAL]

Unicorn Skeptic: What is it gonna take to confirm the existence of these things?
Lu: Sumpter loved tomatoes. He had a garden full of them which he tended to with love and devotion. It was located just outside the guest bedroom.

At least you no longer have me passing out pamphlets and saying, "Let me tell you about bigfoot".

Are you practicing for a career in standup comedy? If so, you need more practice.

 

[LAL]

Excellent news! When will the DNA results be in?

Already in. Ask Dr. Nelson if he's going to write them up.

 

[LAL]

However, just because there weren't any lead-in tracks doesn't mean it was a hoax. Patty could of walked in the stream, using her Ninja-Bigfoot skilz.

Or along the road where tracks wouldn't show.

 

[LAL]

Well if they weren't there wouldn't be "hundreds of U.S. sightings reported every year".

If they were I would expect thousands instead of hundreds. Not all the reported sightings are recent.

Better qualified? Why, because he has a bigfoot hat?

RayG

No, because he heads up a research organization and spends time in the woods.

Didn't you check it out before you joined the forum?

 

[EHocking]

...They've been tracked; sometimes the people turned back when they began to wonder what would happen if they caught up. It took Goodall months to catch her first glimpse of Chimpanzees and they were a noisy bunch mostly confined to one African valley..

Not quite. It took Goodall months to get them used to her so that she could observe them at close quarters.

http://www.janegoodall.org/jane/gombe.asp
"In the beginning, studying the chimpanzees of Gombe was not easy for Jane. The animals fled from her in fear; it took months for her to get close to them. With determination, she searched the forest every day, deliberately trying not to get too close to the chimpanzees too soon. On many days Jane observed the chimpanzees through binoculars from a peak overlooking the forest. Gradually the chimpanzees became accustomed to her presence."

This is not at all the same as taking months to find them.

This is not actually a nitpick on my behalf.

It seems to me that there have been many statements made in this and similar threads where the proponents of a particular belief misrepresent facts about a matter just enough to attempt to put doubt in peoples' minds. It's subtle and and on the face of it this misinformation appears to be trivial, but when looked at in sum it can appear to be persuasive "evidence" to back a claim. In the political realm I would regard it as spin, but propoganda is just as good.

The point about my comment on the Goodall statement is not dissimilar for the reasons I commented on the Platypus misinformation made earlier in this thread.

 

[LAL]

LAL, you remember how it all started?
I said LMS used anedoctal data.
You questioned.
If you disagree, expose your case.

You're dodging the question. Have you seen it or not?

LAL, if PGF were better and if it were not surrounded by that fishy smell or if bigfootery were not so intimately associated with hoaxers, crackpots and hucksters...

As though "bigfootery" is responsible for that.

Aniway, complaining against "mainstream science" and close minded skeptics is useless. This will only bring you closer to woo. The poor quality of bigfoot evidence and the association of footers with hoaxers and crackpost is not skeptic's and "mainstream scientist's" fault. Bigfootery fringe subject status is due to its very nature.

Only if you choose to relegate it to the tabloids and refuse to take it seriously. There are a few scientists willing to look in to it. The climate may be changing.

I do wonder why I bother answering.

Yep, I do wonder why I bother answering...

Then don't. I've read it all before.

The climate and the ecology of the forests inhabited by gigantopithecus were not similar to what existed at PNW back then or currently. There were vast stretches of land with different environments (grasslands included) between Southern Asia (where they lived) and the passage. Gigantopithecus, according to the available evidence were not the ecletic omnivores you claim, they were much more herbivores.

See the study on the teeth wear. It's most like that of chimpanzees. Chimpanzees eat meat.

There were forests with abundant food. Gigantopithecus was not a specialized bamboo eater (as Ciochon thought at first) although they did eat bamboo, and were not confined to bamboo forests.

I got the phrase from Dr. Meldrum who cited the study. Dr. David Daegling, who was one of the authors of the study, used the phrase "fairly eclectic" here:

http://books.google.com/books?id=uJ...&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result

There was a flurry of sightings near The Dalles, Oregon, that might indicate sasquatches can cross grassland if not actually inhabit it.

Not "locationwise". Only "sizewise".

Use the search function (combinations of Pleistocene, gigantopithecus, teeth as keywords) to locate my posts regarding these issues, where you can find the links to sources.

Why should I read your posts (again) when I can read Ciochon, Daegling, et al. They wrote it up.

 

[EHocking]

See the study on the teeth wear. It's most like that of chimpanzees. Chimpanzees eat meat.

Again, not quite. Chimpanzees occasionally eat meat, just as many humans do (don't think devoloped countries before you riposte).

Since you mentioned her, let's refer to Ms Goodall's FAQ No.16:
http://www.janegoodall.org/jane/study-corner/Jane/FAQs.asp#16
"Chimpanzees drink water. They eat fruits, nuts, seeds, blossoms, leaves and insects. Dr. Jane discovered that chimpanzees also eat the meat of smaller mammals. Before Dr. Jane’s discovery, chimpanzees were believed to be primarily vegetarians. "

Again, small pieces of spin to build a case.