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Bigfoot - The Patterson-Gimlin Film

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Why would loggers find bodies? Sick and dying animals hole up. When the death has occurred the scavenger system takes over and the body is reduced to practically nothing in days. I've seen plenty of clear cuts in the PNW and it would take a very alert logger to notice a few bones mixed in with the rocks. Bones are quickly covered in moss. Club moss grows over talus in full sun and would hide bones for some time even with the trees gone.

Still, a logger is in a cleared and highly disrupted forest. You'd think they'd have a better chance of uncovering something odd than a hunter or hiker who's in a denser and undisturbed environment. And I don't need to remind you of the significance of logging roads to modern Bigfootery.
 
Don't need to find a direct quote from Rodge in the book- Why did he stop Bob from leaving him alone at Bluff Creek?

There were three sizes of tracks found on Blue Creek Mountain Road. They thought hers were the middle-sized ones and that the larger male might be in the area. He referred to possibly spotting the other one when they decided to follow:

"W: Now, how far did you follow her?

R: I really didn't follow her any much further than when my camera run out of film and I knew that it was out, and Bob got on his horse and went after her then, and from that point he seen her more than I did, I never seen her again .

W: How far were you able to follow her?

B: I watched her until she went up the road about 300 yards, and she went around a bend in the road and that was the last I seen of her.

W: Now, after all this too dreadful excitement what did the pair of you do? Here you've, after all these hundreds of years of rumours and sightings and all the rest of it all up and down the Pacific Northwest and Michigan and Wisconsin and everywhere else, what did you do when you're standing there, you've recovered from the shock, with a camera full of film? I mean just tell me precisely what you did at that time. What did you say to each other?

R: Well I, when Bob come back, I yelled to him and I said, "Bob, come back," because at this point my horse was I didn't know where and the pack horse was gone, my scabbard, and my rifle was in the scabbard, on the horse, and the tracks before, down in there that we had heard about, were in a set of three, and there was a bigger one there, and I thought that possibly there was a male in close in ....

W: You were getting nervous.

R: I was getting nervous.

W: You were on foot there without the rifle.

R: I was on foot without anything, and I yelled to Bob to come back and we would think the thing over and ...

W: Was that just about the time you broke off the chase, you might say?

B: Right, that was, when I last seen her go round the curve. And at that time I went back and proceeded to gather up Roger's horses, his horse that he was riding and the pack horse, and after ....

W: Then what?

B: After chasing them up and down the road for a little while and finally catching them, well we talked it over and I said I'd check around and see if maybe that I could find some tracks where she had come into this area and possibly sight the other one, so I took the camera while he gathered up his stuff and ..

W: You scouted around for a while did you? Well when did you ..were you able to identify specifically the tracks you had made while you were following her?

R: Yes, because immediately after we went across the creek and immediately after I called Bob back we looked at the tracks and they were, the tracks were there .

W: These are the tracks we saw in the movie tonight.

R: That's right.

W: The tracks for which you have the plaster casts tonight.

R: Right.

W: How come you had plaster casts with you. uh plaster with you?

R: We didn't have plaster, 'cause we went, we had to go back to the, to the truck and get plaster and come up and cast them.

W: How long would that take you, to leave the scene, go back to the truck and come up again?

R: We were at that point about two, what, maybe two miles from that area then?

B: Not two miles, I'd say. By the road it was just about an even two miles, across the hill that way it was a little shorter but we went ...

W: Now, okay, so you then gave up and you took the plaster tracks. How deep were these tracks by the way, in inches? Inch and a quarter or ....

B: Some of them were down as far as three and a half inches deep into the softer soil. These particular ones we took here were, weren't quite so deep because they were flatter tracks."

http://www.bigfootencounters.com/interviews/radiopatterson.htm
 
By the way, nice "Destroy all Monsters" reference!

Thanks! I knew you'd catch that.

Tokusatsu plays a big part in how I view the PGF. Take Ultraman... they crank out a new monster suit practically every week. Massive, grotesque things that are still capable of performing choreographed fight scenes. If Patty is a suit, it's not "extreme" in form or function. We're debating details so subtle they may not even exist. It's not like we see it peeling a banana with its toes. That would be impressive.
 
Speaking of matching....nice choice of a still frame, there, Lu! ;)

Scanned from Meldrum's book and one of Murphy's respectively. You mean the one where the rubber foot on the costume exactly matches the cast made from the 1" deep print that was carved or stomped in later? Or the one that shows a perfect cast in a line of really sloppy fuzzy slipper stomping?

Do you think Roger stomped or carved this one or did the bending rubber feet make it?

018.jpg


I haven't seen this about the toes before. Is this another first, like noticing the possible top of an infant head in Freeman 1994? If so, nice work. If not, nice work anyway.
 
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Still, a logger is in a cleared and highly disrupted forest. You'd think they'd have a better chance of uncovering something odd than a hunter or hiker who's in a denser and undisturbed environment. And I don't need to remind you of the significance of logging roads to modern Bigfootery.

Modern? I'm not sure I'm following you. The Crew tracks were in 1958. New roads were going into an area that had only been mapped from the air. Tracks show up a lot better on dirt roads than on forest floor.

If there's something odd to uncover, yes, but scavengers scatter bones and mice eat them for the calcium. A cat skinner would be more likely to drive over them than see them, IMO. Cutters are focused on cutting.

It's not usual to find anything dead lying around in the forest.
 
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"W: Now, how far did you follow her?

R: I really didn't follow her any much further than when my camera run out of film and I knew that it was out, and Bob got on his horse and went after her then, and from that point he seen her more than I did, I never seen her again .

W: How far were you able to follow her?

B: I watched her until she went up the road about 300 yards, and she went around a bend in the road and that was the last I seen of her.

Notice, no mention of following her for any distance. Yet here, Patterson claims:

"When she got around the corner and into the real heavy stuff [timber and underbrush] she did take off--running, I mean--because, when we lost her tracks on pine needles after tracking her for about three and a-half miles, we took plaster casts of her tracks."

So, which was it?

RayG
 
Considering how far Patty's toes extend upwards...and how loose they would have to be to flip up easily.....how is it that her toes are curled-up tight against her foot, when the foot is in a vertical position?...

What the heck are you talking about?
 
Notice, no mention of following her for any distance. Yet here, Patterson claims:

"When she got around the corner and into the real heavy stuff [timber and underbrush] she did take off--running, I mean--because, when we lost her tracks on pine needles after tracking her for about three and a-half miles, we took plaster casts of her tracks."

So, which was it?

RayG
It's obvious (to me, anyway) he meant at that time. The stride indicated she was running. They followed after they retrieved the horses.

Note Webster saw the film of the tracks. The tape ends in mid-sentence - perhaps there was more.

The National Wildlife article got the track size wrong. Did you notice that?
 
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Ah, hai! Destroy All Monsters (1968):



State of the art in Roger's time.
 
Here's another little detail to consider, with Patty's supposed "loosely-flopping fake toes"....


[qimg]http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w28/SweatyYeti/Pattys%20Toes/PattyToesGif8.gif[/qimg]


Considering how far Patty's toes extend upwards...and how loose they would have to be to flip up easily.....how is it that her toes are curled-up tight against her foot, when the foot is in a vertical position?...


[qimg]http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w28/SweatyYeti/Pattys%20Toes/PFoot2.jpg[/qimg] [qimg]http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w28/SweatyYeti/Pattys%20Toes/Foot11.jpg[/qimg]

It looks strangely unnatural. Like something else is moving, rather than an "articulation". Squatch superfoot? Clownfeet? Swimfin? Who knows with such poor footage?

In any event, here is an example of a large pair of rubber boots, and the effect when moving across sand/dust. Gravity renders the motion different, but the basic concept is the same. Just a thought...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDpwtnGS6uc&feature=related

Just a little detail to keep in mind, when trying to replicate....what Roger did. ;)

Have you managed to replicate the "finger bend", with your own non-rubber hand, yet?
 
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I don't understand why you are comparing real creatures (Whales, Buffalo, Platypus) etc... with Bigfoot Legends.

The Bigfoot Legend should be compared with Loch Ness Mon., Fairies etc... not known biological entities. I think maybe it should be compared to UFO abductions personally, since they are both products of the human mind in all likelihood.

Now that a large white whale has been studied and a white buffalo born, they've been rightly categorized as nothing more than genetic anomalies. Comparing bigfoot to these animals is correct as large bipedal primates are known to exist.

Neither magic nor fairies are real. As aliens (that abduct and study ((molest)) drunk people).

As soon as one is captured, or perhaps a bone or tooth that has been misidentified procured, I'll have the definitive answers kit needs.

You guys remember Parch posted the various terms of trolls? Contrarian troll and so forth. I learned a new one at BFF, "evil little troll". It was used in the new BFRO thread, great reading.
 
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Or a Head Scratch

No. When KKZ talks about "leveling the forest" he is making reference to MOTS's own claimed Bigfoot encounter. He never saw the beast, but it was smashing and crashing through the woods. All the animals of the forest were fleeing ahead of it. The whole time this unseen force is letting out a roar as loud as a "jet plane".

It's one of those ridiculous encounter stories that is worth little more than a chuckle.

Your display of memory is underwhelming. Each episode was separate.
 
Mountain lions in NC would rocket tourism skywards, imo. Anyone holding back reports of big cats out of fear for tourism dollars is a flaming idiot, imo.

Same for bigfoot. If they are holding those reports, they're pretty stupid.

Cougars are cool, if left alone. My son (and two friends) had a frightening encounter on the first night of their bicycle ride across the US. My son said that it sounded like it was in heat.
 
No. When KKZ talks about "leveling the forest" he is making reference to MOTS's own claimed Bigfoot encounter. He never saw the beast, but it was smashing and crashing through the woods. All the animals of the forest were fleeing ahead of it. The whole time this unseen force is letting out a roar as loud as a "jet plane".

It's one of those ridiculous encounter stories that is worth little more than a chuckle.

MOTS tale is quite similiar to Skip Frombach's "Tasmanian Devil" account of "forest leveling"...

"As I looked around it was difficult to determine exactly what I was seeing. The trail looked like it had been obliterated in some cataclysmic fashion. Huge rocks were out of place, trees broken over and hillside ripped loose. I couldn't even dicern the ribbons I had placed to mark my previous trip. It was as though the hand of God had slapped the hillside and jarred it beyond recognition. I couldn't even tell if I would be able to regain the trail without rope and petons to secure my travel. It was that devistated. So much so that I abandoned the monument I was carrying so I could use both hands to pull myself up to the trail. I was standing in an area more familiar but equally as unusual. Here I could see the ribbons I had placed but they were laying on trees that were now on the ground. Large conifers were snapped off 3 and 4 feet above the ground like a child breaks stalks of grass. The broken ends and ground covered with an unusual green slime. It was like nothing I had seen before in all my many travels into the wild. It looked like it had been ejected from a tooth paste tube but the interior of the jelly contained strands of very minute vegetable matter. This was impressed in the interior like it came out of 5 seperate orifices and it held its position in the mass of gelatin. Overall consistancy was like thick tapioca pudding and it gave the simulation of phosphorescence in the dim light of the trail. As you can imagin from my discussion I spent some time trying to decipher the meaning of all of what I was seeing as the site reminded me of the Tunguska blast in Russia or the aftermath of St. Helens. Many of the trees were laying up the hill!

...Moments later the hillside exploded in a blaze of fury...

Falling through the trees I could make out a large black shape and my first impression was that my call had disodged a large nest or treelimb from above. But as it continued to crash, in a Rambo fashion, I knew I was seeing a living creature. Big and black. It had to be a bear... I saw every form of mauling death in those first few moments and prepared for a quick and painfull death at the claws of this thing and then...it was over. The behometh layed on the trail dead...or unconcious...I couldn't tell. Better yet I couldn't make out head or tail on what I was seeing. It just looked like a mass of hair. I surveyed my situation in the few moments and decided to walk toward the thing and see if I could get around it and escape. Just then it began to stir and I prepared to die...

I saw first one hand and then another extend from the sides of this thing. Expecting a four footed stance you can imagine my suprize when it stood straight up like a man and its buttox was about eye level. I pulled my 22 caliber pistol and tried to fire a round in the air but I was so rattled that I had forgot the safety and it wouldn't fire. By now I was so engrossed in the magnificent size of this beast I just stood there and took in all I could. Determined that, if I survived, I had to remember all I was seeing. ...Later I fired a shot over its right shoulder. It turned and looked at me and then just walked away like I didn't matter. Down the trail like a living Goliath. As I stood there I was unsure of what to do. The gun was obviously little protection but I did have explosives down the trail in my rock bag. My thought was get to them and I could easily scare this thing away and make my break for it. As I walked down the trail though I spotted something crouched near my supplies. It was the creatue and it was doing something. Digging... I decided this was bad and began to back up. Now it seemed like I became the hunted and it turned and ran my direction. I turned and ran for all is was worth towrd the rockslide and down the hill. The creature crested the hill above me and began a longitudinal traverse of the hillside ripping out everything that stood in its way...

It looked like the scenes of a Tasmanian Devil cartoon. This thing detroyed whole trees as it mowed through them. Pushing them aside like I would small twigs. Rocks, branches and all forms of debris came my direction as if they wre being hit with some beam of anti-gravitaional force. It was so surreal that it was shocking and I stopped several times when I could run no further. Surprizingly...when I stopped, it stopped and when I ran, it ran. During the pauses it would make that banging sound again just long enough to enlist a response. I ran to within 300 feet of the road before I decided to give up and then it turned and went back into the forest. As I broke out to the road they tell me I emptied the clip of my gun. Of that I have no memory..."

http://www.bigfootforums.com/index.php?s=&act=ST&f=1&t=3760

Great yarns all. Way better than the wussy Bigfoot stories of "forest friends"...

"...suddenly the great beast appeared before me. I tell you he was ten stories high if he was a foot." (G.Costanza)
 
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I am not even sure why you are all speaking of rubber feet. The tracks could have been prepared in advance (in absence of rain, a few hours or even days in advance) and the guy in costume made sure to step elsewhere where it would be confused with the pursuer print, or made afterward separately from any filming. The bottom line is, you NEVER see the tracks within the film itself, so for all we know they weren't even made by patty.
 
The relevant part starts at 1:30. The cell phone photo of the subject is first shown at 2:46. The photographer wishes to remain anonymous (to the public, or even extending to expert investigators?). Quote: "... although Monster Quest has not authenticated the photo, there is no doubt about the identity of the creature..." I agree that the creature looks very much like a cougar. IMO, it almost certainly is. The narrator points out the black-tipped tail, but I'm not sure we are seeing the tail tip or a black background spot. It doesn't matter much because the overall visible body form is that of a cougar. A photo of a footprint is shown at 4:30. The track isn't very clear, but it has characteristics suggesting a large canid (teardrop shaped, rather than roundish).

Lu, if we don't drop this subject now, we will need to make a new thread as this is off topic.

There's a reason the guy wanted to remain anonymous. It's because he pulled the picture off a Texas wildlife site, and submitted it as the dreaded vampire beast in NC. I don't have linking privileges, so I can't give a link.
 
If you've seen it, why do you ask?
LAL, you remember how it all started?
I said LMS used anedoctal data.
You questioned.
If you disagree, expose your case.

I'm not going to bother answering all this. I referred specifically to skeptical scientists staring into the camera and saying basically what I said they said. They did it in the documentaries of the 70's and not much has changed since, at least on TV.
LAL, if PGF were better and if it were not surrounded by that fishy smell or if bigfootery were not so intimately associated with hoaxers, crackpots and hucksters...

Aniway, complaining against "mainstream science" and close minded skeptics is useless. This will only bring you closer to woo. The poor quality of bigfoot evidence and the association of footers with hoaxers and crackpost is not skeptic's and "mainstream scientist's" fault. Bigfootery fringe subject status is due to its very nature.

I do wonder why I bother answering.

Giganto was in Asia. So far no remains of Australopiths have been found outside Africa. That's at least closer to NA than some of the other similar animals (except for Asian Homo erectus and Homo sapiens). The forests on both continents once stretched much further north, the climate was milder, the land bridge was 1000 miles wide with groves of hardwoods, and Giganto was an ecletic omnivore, not a specialized bamboo eater.

That's what it has going for it, locationwise.
Yep, I do wonder why I bother answering...

The climate and the ecology of the forests inhabited by gigantopithecus were not similar to what existed at PNW back then or currently. There were vast stretches of land with different environments (grasslands included) between Southern Asia (where they lived) and the passage. Gigantopithecus, according to the available evidence were not the ecletic omnivores you claim, they were much more herbivores.

Not "locationwise". Only "sizewise".

Use the search function (combinations of Pleistocene, gigantopithecus, teeth as keywords) to locate my posts regarding these issues, where you can find the links to sources.
 
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