So why is revealing magic tricks so sacred?

[Ashles]

I know there is a generally agreed 'code' that the secrets behind magic tricks should be kept secret. But why is it so rigidly adhered to?

I love magic tricks and I know how many of them are done, but there are others I would love explained just to appreciate the technical brilliance (or unexpected cunningness) of the trick. But it seems I am not allowed to know.

The restriction on revealing these tricks seems to border on the fanatical. If people don't want to know, fine, don't visit the places that explain them. This forum reveals every day perfectly possible (and likely) explanations for deeply held paranormal beliefs. And believers can choose to visit or not visit this site and read and accept or disagree with those explanations.

But why are sites/videos/text explanations of magic tricks still so sacrosanct? People often claim that the answers are readily available, but a search does not reveal them.

So I repeat my question - why are magic tricks protected to an almost legal/national security level?

 

[tesscaline]

Why? Sound business sense, that's why.

How magic tricks are done is just as much intellectual property as anything else. There are two ways, generally, to protect that property.

The first is copyright. But, in order to copyright, you have to make that property public knowledge. In making how a magic trick is performed "public knowledge" it loses the mystique that draws so many people to watch a magic show, and the end result would be no one wanting to watch the act more than once -- something that makes the intellectual property of the inner workings of a magic act worthless.

The second is through non-disclosure. In keeping the "how" secret from everyone, the intrigue and mystique of the act is left intact. People keep paying admission so that they can try and figure it out for themselves. This not only keeps money in the pocket of the magician, but it actually increases the value of the intellectual property involved.

 

[qwints]

Why? Sound business sense, that's why.
The first is copyright. But, in order to copyright, you have to make that property public knowledge. In making how a magic trick is performed "public knowledge" it loses the mystique that draws so many people to watch a magic show, and the end result would be no one wanting to watch the act more than once -- something that makes the intellectual property of the inner workings of a magic act worthless.

From the US copyright office:
Copyright is a form of protection grounded in the U.S. Constitution and granted by law for original works of authorship fixed in a tangible medium of expression. Copyright covers both published and unpublished works.

The method behind magic tricks cannot be copyrighted (instructional books or DVDs could be, but that still wouldn't protect the method. It might be able to be patented, but that would require making the method public and would only last 20 years. The most relevant body of law is trade secrets law.

 

[geni]

Why? Sound business sense, that's why.

How magic tricks are done is just as much intellectual property as anything else. There are two ways, generally, to protect that property.

The first is copyright. But, in order to copyright, you have to make that property public knowledge.

Nope. For example windows source code is not public knowlage but it is protected by copyright.

However copyright is of little use since you can't copyright the method only a given way of describeing the method or a given way of presenting it.

You can patent the method. This however does involve revealing how it is done but patents have been used from time to time. Pepper's ghost and some cutting people in half stuff for example.

In making how a magic trick is performed "public knowledge" it loses the mystique that draws so many people to watch a magic show, and the end result would be no one wanting to watch the act more than once -- something that makes the intellectual property of the inner workings of a magic act worthless.

Not true. The classic example is a card trick. For some tricks there are about 20 ways of doing them. Some may be well known but no one who isn't seriously into magic is going to learn all of them. Much the same applies with any other trick no one without a serious interest is going to learn them all. Then there is the whole issues of presentation. Just because I know the mechanism doesn't mean I'm going to be able to spot it if if your presentation is good enough even care.

The second is through non-disclosure. In keeping the "how" secret from everyone, the intrigue and mystique of the act is left intact. People keep paying admission so that they can try and figure it out for themselves. This not only keeps money in the pocket of the magician, but it actually increases the value of the intellectual property involved.

But runs into problems when the trick is a centery old.

 

[Fronzel]

Magic tricks are cool when you don't know how they do it. Lame when you do know.

 

[supercorgi]

I know there is a generally agreed 'code' that the secrets behind magic tricks should be kept secret. But why is it so rigidly adhered to?

I love magic tricks and I know how many of them are done, but there are others I would love explained just to appreciate the technical brilliance (or unexpected cunningness) of the trick. But it seems I am not allowed to know.

I've got to agree with you. I love magic tricks but they frustrate me because I can't figure out how they work and I really want to understand them. I think the psychology behind magic is amazing -- using how people perceive things to make them see the impossible. Knowing the design/engineering behind the tricks makes me appreciate them more. I can appreciate them as art, but also appreciate them as science.

 

[rustypouch]

Because then it wouldn't be magic.

 

[tesscaline]

Nope. For example windows source code is not public knowlage but it is protected by copyright.

However copyright is of little use since you can't copyright the method only a given way of describeing the method or a given way of presenting it.

You can patent the method. This however does involve revealing how it is done but patents have been used from time to time. Pepper's ghost and some cutting people in half stuff for example.

Yes. I misspoke. I meant patent. Chalk it up to not having had enough coffee And yes, there are some magic tricks patented. Those are usually the ones that are sold to people in magic shops -- you know, the ones that have been done so often and by so many people that the average joe doesn't really consider it "magic" anymore, but recognizes it for the illusion that it is.

Not true. The classic example is a card trick. For some tricks there are about 20 ways of doing them. Some may be well known but no one who isn't seriously into magic is going to learn all of them. Much the same applies with any other trick no one without a serious interest is going to learn them all. Then there is the whole issues of presentation. Just because I know the mechanism doesn't mean I'm going to be able to spot it if if your presentation is good enough even care.

But runs into problems when the trick is a centery old.

Um. Most people lose interest in "magic" when they know how a trick is done because it ceases to be magical to them, thus showing how a magic trick is not magical ruins your income. Not to mention that the more people know how to do something, the more competition you have, which also can ruin your income.

It's sound business sense to keep these things secret. Plain and simple.

 

[jimtron]

So I repeat my question - why are magic tricks protected to an almost legal/national security level?

They are usually not strictly protected (even prior to the Internet you could learn a lot by going to the library or bookstore). But why do people want them protected? If you're a magician, obviously it's gonna hurt the act if everyone knows how the effects are done. Also, if you're in the business of selling magic tricks (sometimes it's just instructions--the secret) or books, you're not going to appreciate having the secrets freely attainable.

One argument in favor of having the secrets exposed: many magicians have been getting away with impressing people with ancient tricks that have been done to death. It would be swell if people would come up with their own original stuff instead of doing something that's been done to death. But I also certainly don't blame folks who are frustrated by the ubiquity of magic secrets on the Internet.

 

[Ashles]

It's sound business sense to keep these things secret. Plain and simple.

Well I obviously realise that magicians have reasons for wanting to keep the tricks secret - what I don't understand is why everyone else seems to buy into this to the extent they do.
We know special effects in films are tricks but nobody has any issues with revealing them. Knowing that Ian McKellen is sitting much closer to the screen than Elijah Wood doesn't spoil Lord of the Rings for me.

There are no laws protecting the secrets, yet people behave as if there are.

And surely people are entitled to decide for themselves whether knowing how a magic trick is done ruins it for them. For me personally it doesn't.
If it would ruin it for someone to know then I wouldn't expect them to spend time trying to find out how they were done.

As an example I saw Criss Angel's walking through the glass window trick and had a theory as to how he had done it. Some guys (I think they were called 'Trickbusters') had posted a video on YouTube showing how it was done.
But when I went to look at it, it had been removed for some breach of YouTube regulations.
Now if it was offensive or something similar then fair enough, but if it was removed simply because it gave away a magic secret then that seems like unnecessarily censorship.

 

[Bob Klase]

One argument in favor of having the secrets exposed: many magicians have been getting away with impressing people with ancient tricks that have been done to death.

That is one argument, but it's mainly used by people who want to expose the tricks for the money (such as the masked magician on TV), and for people who want to impress their friends and show everyone how smart they are by explaining tricks but don't want to spend time learning to do them.

It would be swell if people would come up with their own original stuff instead of doing something that's been done to death.

It would also be swell if all musicians and singers would come up with their own original songs and many some new notes on the musical scale. We've been listening to the same notes for centuries with no additions.

The truth is that if something has been done to death then most people will stop watching it.

 

[geni]

That is one argument, but it's mainly used by people who want to expose the tricks for the money (such as the masked magician on TV), and for people who want to impress their friends and show everyone how smart they are by explaining tricks but don't want to spend time learning to do them.

Since anyone selling say a book of magic tricks is exposing the tricks for money it would appear that money per se is not a valid reason to object.

It would also be swell if all musicians and singers would come up with their own original songs and many some new notes on the musical scale.

There is a reason copyright on songs doesn't last forever but songs are a bad example since they would be the presentation of the trick. Which you can copyright. The equiverlent of the method would be say a particular musical insterment which you could patent for 20 years. Would waiting 20 years before explaining how a trick is done be acceptable.

We've been listening to the same notes for centuries with no additions.

Depends how you define note. But there has been in the last few centiries an enormous variation in musical styles, instuments and ways of putting them together. Everything from high opera to plastic pop to death metal.

The truth is that if something has been done to death then most people will stop watching it.

How many performances of macbeth have there been over the years? We all know the plot how it's going to end in many cases even chuncks of the script. But the play appears to get by.

 

[jimtron]

Now if it was offensive or something similar then fair enough, but if it was removed simply because it gave away a magic secret then that seems like unnecessarily censorship.

Youtube doesn't ban videos that reveal magic tricks, do they? Are you sure this wasn't a copyright violation? Did they show a clip of Angel's show?

 

[Ashles]

That is one argument, but it's mainly used by people who want to expose the tricks for the money (such as the masked magician on TV), and for people who want to impress their friends and show everyone how smart they are by explaining tricks

Yes and why shouldn't they be able to do so?

Surely the counter argument is magicians don't want to reveal tricks because not revealing them shows how smart they are (since we have apparently decided that people wanting to show 'how smart they are' is in some way a reason to restrict behaviours).

but don't want to spend time learning to do them.

Should I be prevented from having the double-slit experiment explained to me simply because I am not prepared to dedicate years to studying quantum mechanics?
Why are you not allowed to have something explained to you just because you are interested in it at a more casual level than the professional?

To be honest those reasons seem fairly weak.

 

[Ashles]

Youtube doesn't ban videos that reveal magic tricks, do they? Are you sure this wasn't a copyright violation? Did they show a clip of Angel's show?

They don't usually ban clips for that reason either - it was on YouTube that I saw many of Criss Angel's tricks.

I don't know what the reason was for removing the explanation clip - it may have been any one of a number of perfectly valid reasons. It was just my first assumption (rightly or wrongly) that it had been removed/complained about because it had explained a trick and people sometimes seem to get very funny about that.

 

[jimtron]

It was just my first assumption (rightly or wrongly) that it had been removed/complained about because it had explained a trick and people sometimes seem to get very funny about that.

I don't know for sure but I don't think they ban videos that give away magic secrets. I'm pretty sure there is quite a bit of that on Youtube--dudes explaining card tricks and stuff.

 

[qwints]

Youtube normally takes done any video which a company asserts is infringing. They do this because the DMCA (Digital Millennium Copyright Act) immunizes service providers that take down copyright infringing material as soon as they are notified. (The "safe harbor provision.")

My guess is that the video got noticed by someone who works at A&E or a parent company and they asked that it be taken down. There's no requirement that a company take down every clip to take down just one.

 

[Bob Klase]

Since anyone selling say a book of magic tricks is exposing the tricks for money it would appear that money per se is not a valid reason to object.

My objection (and no one else's that I know of) is not that it was done for money. It's that it was done at all. I've seen and read hundreds of magic books. With few exceptions (such as a couple written by Herbert Becker) they are written to teach, not just expose. You can quibble that it's a fine line, but it is a line.

Would waiting 20 years before explaining how a trick is done be acceptable.

I assume that you're asking for an opinion- mine would be no.

Depends how you define note. But there has been in the last few centiries an enormous variation in musical styles, instuments and ways of putting them together. Everything from high opera to plastic pop to death metal.

During the last few centuries there has been an enormous variation in magic styles, tricks, props and ways of putting them together.

by jimtron
It would be swell if people would come up with their own original stuff instead of doing something that's been done to death.

The truth is that if something has been done to death then most people will stop watching it.

How many performances of macbeth have there been over the years? We all know the plot how it's going to end in many cases even chuncks of the script. But the play appears to get by.

How many performances of macbeth have you personally seen in your entire life? For most people the answer is likely to be one (or less).

 

[Bob Klase]

Yes and why shouldn't they be able to do so?

Obviously they can do so. Why should we help them do it?

Surely the counter argument is magicians don't want to reveal tricks because not revealing them shows how smart they are

In many cases you're right. I consider those magicians very poor magicians.

(since we have apparently decided that people wanting to show 'how smart they are' is in some way a reason to restrict behaviours).

How about someone who keeps going into movie theaters showing 'who-done-its' and shouting out the ending when the movie is just starting to show 'how smart they are'? Are you in favor of that?

Should I be prevented from having the double-slit experiment explained to me simply because I am not prepared to dedicate years to studying quantum mechanics?

Nope.

Why are you not allowed to have something explained to you just because you are interested in it at a more casual level than the professional?

I didn't say you're not allowed. Answers in magic are given much more freely than most people think, but mostly to people who have shown an interest or put in some effort. I don't think they should be dumped on someone who happens to tune in a TV channel.

Many people I know who watched some of the exposure shows 7-8 years ago told me they wished they hadn't seen them. But it was like a car wreck- they couldn't stop watching.

To be honest those reasons seem fairly weak.

Those reasons answered the questions. There are others.

 

[gnome]

Here's a question... how do people that become magicians find out how to do the tricks?

I appreciate that the actual tricks are kept under wraps to some extent, it increases the entertainment value of the profession. For someone that really has a desire to know, why not study stage magic and learn the secrets the way professionals do?