Trouble Ahead on the High Seas (ISM)

[mrbaracuda]

Are you serious? I hope they're okay but lol.

 

[webfusion]

Fair enough.
Israel can choose to stop the next group. Or the one after that...... And so on. But the blockade won't look so complete and strong.

This group is bankrupt. No other mission beyond this one will be organized.

(Link: http://www.freegaza.org/index.php?language=EN&module=funds_needed

"We're Broke" say the FreeGaza group.

If the dam is leaking, you can choose to patch it up today. Or tomorrow. Or the day after.... Hey, the choice is yours. You're still in control of the dam. But the dam is leaking.

Your analogy is most apt to the way the Palestinians are dealing with their own lives in Gaza. Look at them -- their entire focus is on what, exactly? Two wooden boats loaded with -- balloons.

They could have had a freakin' International Airport.
A high-speed rail link to the West Bank, with access to Jerusalem, and Jordan and the rest of the MidEast.
A deep-water Port for cargo shipping and passenger ferries.
Investments in their Duty-Free zone at Erez (factories, stores, automotive services).
Jobs in Israel and Jobs in Gaza, with fully-developed Exporting (PalTrade).

But what do they have instead? HAMASTAN.
That's the leaky dam they should be addressing in Gaza and start thinking about a secular, non-militarized government that the world community accepts and which provides them future prospects for a confederation with Israel and a better life.

The biggest frustration I have with these two small boats is their mis-guided mission. Their protest is directed at Israel -- when it should have been directed at HAMAS and the rest of those entire islamic-terror thugs.

 

[webfusion]

Are you serious? I hope they're okay but lol.

You hope they're OK? I hope their boats sprung leaks. And are sinking. And the crews need to be rescued by Israeli SAR. And they get a bill for the rescue, adding to to their already-huge debts. That would be a fitting end to this story.

 

[mrbaracuda]

You hope they're OK? I hope their boats sprung leaks. And are sinking. And the crews need to be rescued by Israeli SAR. And they get a bill for the rescue, adding to to their already-huge debts. That would be a fitting end to this story.

Why so mean, webfusion?

 

[mrbaracuda]

They could have had a freakin' International Airport.
A high-speed rail link to the West Bank, with access to Jerusalem, and Jordan and the rest of the MidEast.
A deep-water Port for cargo shipping and passenger ferries.
Investments in their Duty-Free zone at Erez (factories, stores, automotive services).
Jobs in Israel and Jobs in Gaza, with fully-developed Exporting (PalTrade).

But what do they have instead? HAMASTAN.

But all that stuff, it's bid'a, heh.

 

[FireGarden]

They could have had a freakin' International Airport.
A high-speed rail link to the West Bank, with access to Jerusalem, and Jordan and the rest of the MidEast.
A deep-water Port for cargo shipping and passenger ferries.
Investments in their Duty-Free zone at Erez (factories, stores, automotive services).
Jobs in Israel and Jobs in Gaza, with fully-developed Exporting (PalTrade).

As part of which offer?
Is this going to go back to Camp David and Barak's generousity? -- something which Shlomo ben Ami (Barak's FM) says he would have turned down.

http://www.democracynow.org/2006/2/14/fmr_israeli_foreign_minister_shlomo_ben

Communications were lost. Nobody has heard from the boats, and nobody knows where they are.
The eastern Mediterranean Sea is 'heavy' and the 2 boats have not yet been sighted off the Gaza coast.

A somewhat incomplete description of the article:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1014462.html

The 46 members of the U.S.-based Free Gaza group said in a statement that their boat communications were scrambled, severing most of their connection to the outside world. They also said they were encountering rough seas and had not yet approached the Gaza coast.

Israel has denied interfering in the boats' communications, and has previously called the mission an unacceptable provocation. It remained unclear what would happen as the boats approach Gaza, although an Israeli attempt to stop them seemed likely.

[...] Another spokesman for the ministry, Aviv Shiron, said Friday that all options are being considered when asked whether Israel intended to use force to turn the boats away.

[...] Godfrey said she expected the vessels to reach Gaza at around 11 a.m. Jerusalem time, but organizers have since lost communication with the boats.

[...] "Nobody thinks that these boats will break the siege in a practical way, but this is a moral message - what is happening (in Gaza) is illegal and inhumane, and must be halted," said Raji Sourani, a prominent human rights activist.

I agree with that last bit.
Change has to start in some way.

You hope they're OK? I hope their boats sprung leaks. And are sinking. And the crews need to be rescued by Israeli SAR. And they get a bill for the rescue, adding to to their already-huge debts. That would be a fitting end to this story.

Or maybe the Greeks will have to move in:
http://www.africasia.com/services/news/newsitem.php?area=mideast&item=080823100346.41fuihfx.php

But in a message sent from the boats at 10:00 am (0700 GMT) the crew said their communications systems had come under attack by "electronic piracy" and they were relying entirely on satellite phones.

"We are not experienced sailors. As a result, there is concern about the health and safety of the people on board (should) an emergency develop," the message said, according to a copy provided by Godfrey-Goldstein.

"We are currently experiencing rough sea conditions, and we call on the Greek government and the international community to meet their responsibilities and protect the civilians on board our two ships in international waters."

The two converted fishing boats set sail under Greek flags from Cyprus Friday morning carrying 44 activists determined to break an Israeli embargo that was tightened when the Islamist Hamas movement seized Gaza in June 2007.

 

[webfusion]

What do you mean, FireGarden, "as part of what offer"?
The Palestinians already had been proceeding with the things I mentioned.
The Airport was completed and opened.
The Port was about to commence construction.
They Gazans had access to Israel's Ben Gurion for exports, PalTrade was operating.
Palestinians entered Israel and had employment, while Erez Trade Zone was in full swing.

The single item which was not yet on the drawing boards -- the High-speed Rail -- still is within the realm of possibility: After HAMAS is no longer the driving force.
It has nothing to do with what "Israel offers" but rather what the Palestinians are offering.

What are they offering?

I loved this quote:
"what is happening (in Gaza) is illegal and inhumane"

Ye, FireGarden, for sure, what HAMAS has done to the gazans is illegal and inhumane.
They took over the Strip and turned it into HAMASTAN. For shame.

 

[webfusion]

FireGarden says:

A somewhat incomplete description of the article:

The Associated Press has completely re-written the article and the version now displayed in Ha'aretz presents information not available at the original time I posted the link.

Bottom line -- the boats have not reached Gaza and are lost at sea.

Here is a classic excerpt from the AP report:
"We are not experienced sailors. As a result, there is concern about the health and safety of the people on board..."

Yeah, no kidding, they knowingly embarked on their 'ships of fools' while fully expecting to run into some 'concerns' --- (they have the 81-year-old granny on-board, who may need to be airlifted by Israeli Search and Rescue helicopters).

 

[FireGarden]

What do you mean, FireGarden, "as part of what offer"?
The Palestinians already had been proceeding with the things I mentioned.

So you mean it's not up to Israel whether Palestinians get those things or not? Great.

It has nothing to do with what "Israel offers" but rather what the Palestinians are offering.

What are they offering?

A two-state solution, along 1967 borders.

Or, if they get bored waiting for that, they might demand Israeli citizenship:
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1218104260675



On Topic:
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iv1e9uqQJT3HNanX-_uee-A7D3NAD92O23JO5

Israel said Saturday it will allow a pro-Palestinian activist group to sail two boats carrying humanitarian supplies into the Gaza Strip, after earlier hinting it would block the shipment from reaching the coastal territory.

[...] Foreign Ministry spokesman Arye Mekel said Israel had decided to let the boats into Gaza "to avoid the media provocation in the high seas as they (the organizers) planned." He said Israeli authorities were satisfied the cargo was harmless. He had no information on whether Israel had harmed the boats' communications.

ETA:

The Associated Press has completely re-written the article and the version now displayed in Ha'aretz presents information not available at the original time I posted the link.

That happens to me sometimes, too.
Annoying. Why can't they just link to a new page?

 

[FireGarden]

The boats have both arrived in Gaza:
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5jrP6i7Rt38-sZ2Ky9CQgvNKuEDPg

I hope they are the first of many.

Two boats carrying 44 pro-Palestinian activists from Cyprus arrived in the Gaza Strip on Saturday after Israel allowed them through despite its tight blockade of the Hamas-ruled territory.

[...] Angela Godfrey-Goldstein, a Jerusalem-based spokeswoman for the so-called Free Gaza Movement which organised the event, said the boats' communications systems had been attacked by "electronic piracy" earlier in the day.

[...] An attempt by a third boat carrying reporters from the Israeli port of Ashdod to meet the two vessels failed because of communications problems, Godfrey-Goldstein said.

ETA:
And Haaretz has updated again. LOL.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1014462.html

Israel decided to permit the Free Gaza boats to sail into the Strip as a one-time measure and announced that similar missions in the future would be examined individually. It was further announced that the boats would be inspected upon their return to ensure they were not carrying wanted militants or weapons.

 

[webfusion]

Much ado about nothing

OK, so they delivered their balloons. Whoopee!

What's next for the people of Gaza? How will they unravel the tangled mess they have woven themselves into?

 

[mrbaracuda]

Mh, that's some shabby boats right there.

 

[KoihimeNakamura]

By ignoring what they don't want to talk about!

 

[Darth Rotor]

But in a message sent from the boats at 10:00 am (0700 GMT) the crew said their communications systems had come under attack by "electronic piracy" and they were relying entirely on satellite phones.

I smell at least one pathalogical liar in the American based Free Gaza group. Putting the sea into CT.

DR

 

[Darth Rotor]

The boats have both arrived in Gaza:
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5jrP6i7Rt38-sZ2Ky9CQgvNKuEDPg

I hope they are the first of many.

Importing activists won't get the Pals the substantial help they need in developing their economy.

All flash, no boom.

DR

 

[gtc]

Change has to start in some way.

Is this really the best way to start change? Is there a positive step that, say, the Palestinians could take?

 

[gtc]

A two-state solution, along 1967 borders.

Who are you suggesting is in favour of a two-state solution? Hamas? The PA?

 

[FireGarden]

Who are you suggesting is in favour of a two-state solution? Hamas? The PA?

Hamas has been willing to accept a two-state solution.

After they were elected in 2006:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/04/04/mideast/index.html

The new Hamas-led Palestinian government is prepared to engage in "serious and constructive dialogue" to reach a "just and comprehensive solution" of its differences with Israel, the new Palestinian foreign minister said Tuesday.

In a letter to U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan, Mahmoud Zahar even mentioned the possibility of a "two-state" solution in which Palestinians have "freedom and independence side by side with our neighbors" -- despite Hamas' long-standing vow to eradicate Israel.

And here's Meshal in April this year:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/970807.html

Hamas supports the united Palestinian position calling for the establishment of a fully sovereign Palestinian state within the 1967 borders, including Jerusalem, and the right of return for refugees, Hamas politburo chief Khaled Meshal told the Palestinian daily Al-Ayam.

Hamas has also been willing to accept a one-state solution. There's nothing wrong with keeping their options open. If anything, it puts more pressure on Israel to get the two-state solution off the drawing board. I'm glad to see Ahmed Qurei mentioning a one-state solution, in the JPost article I linked before.

 

[FireGarden]

The story is in the Washington Post:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...08/23/AR2008082301855.html?hpid=moreheadlines

Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman Aryeh Mekel said Israel had decided not to stop the boats from landing in Gaza to diminish media attention.

"We took away the drama," Mekel said. "They came, they were welcomed, but what will they do tomorrow? They were hoping for a long confrontation with Israel -- now they won't have it."

Mekel said that the decision did not set a precedent and that future cases will be examined on their merits. But Halper [head of the Israeli Committee Against House Demolitions] said he believed the Free Gaza movement had in fact broken the siege of Gaza.

"Now that we've come through, what's the excuse to keep the third boat out or the 10th boat or the 100th? We did break the economic siege of Gaza," he said.

Good question.
What excuse will Israel use to spot the next boat? No weapons on board -- it will have been checked at Cyprus.

Halper said at least one of the boats will sail back to Cyprus in the next few days, adding that activists hope to take with them Palestinian students who have permission to study in U.S. universities but were unable to obtain exit permits from Israel. It is Halper's first visit to Gaza since the summer of 2000, before the beginning of the second Israeli-Palestinian intifada. It is illegal for Israeli citizens to enter Gaza or the West Bank without permission, and he said he is likely to be arrested when he returns to Israel.

[...] "We recognize that we're two humble boats, but what we've accomplished is to show that average people from around the world can mobilize to create change," said Huwaida Arraf, a Palestinian American. "We do not have to stay silent in the face of injustice. Reaching Gaza today, there is such a sense of hope, and hope is what mobilizes people everywhere."

The story is also in the Independent:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/protest-boats-dock-in-gaza-907225.html

The NYTimes:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/24/world/middleeast/24mideast.html?ref=middleeast

Israel had told the activists to keep their boats away but ultimately decided to allow them to land, apparently to prevent a potentially more damaging public relations drama.

[...] At the seaport, Naama Abu Hamda, 59, said she had come to thank the activists. “We are encouraged by their courage,” she said, “unlike the Arab governments,” who she said had cooperated with the Israeli embargo.

Khalil Nofal, a Hamas leader who also came to the port, said, “This is a strong message to the cowardly Arab leaders.”

I look forward to a similar project against Egypt's closing of the Rafah crossing.

ETA:
And Haaretz has updated again. They couldn't afford two pages for two different days of events?

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1014462.html

Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh on Saturday welcomed two boats that sailed from Cyprus to the Gaza Strip in efforts to break the Israeli-imposed blockade on the Palestinian territory, saying that the arrival of the boats signaled the end of the siege.

Optimistic, I agree.
But it has set an example.

[...] The arrival of the boats is another "nail in the coffin of the blockade," Haniyeh said in an interview with the Qatari-based television network Al Jazeera.

He urged the head of the Arab League Amr Moussa to come to Gaza and called on Egypt to open the Rafah border crossing, which the Egyptians closed in 2007 when Hamas violently seized control over the Gaza Strip.

 

[mrbaracuda]

Hamas has been willing to accept a two-state solution.

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