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Do Most Atheists Know that science..... Part 2

DOC said:
Would you say the Big Bang was caused by natural forces or supernatural forces. If you believe natural forces, what were they?
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what are the natural forces which convert water to steam?
 
RecoveringYuppy said:
I'm not sure mashuna is remembering the poll right. I was one of those atheists that cold clammy morning in Machester and my answer was "'Really? Huh, that's kind of cool. I didn't know that. Really? Huh, that's kind of cool. I didn't know that."
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I've been looking for one of the 1.8% who filled the form in twice. If you could clarify which of the two answers you'd like to give, I'll amend the poll accordingly.
 
DOC said:
...natural forces didn't exist at the time of the Big Bang.
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Says who?

ETA: Maybe you should take Volitile up on his offer. Ignorant is not a very good way to discuss this issue.
 
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DOC said:
Well the God of Christianity is "eternal" by definition so the Christian God can't have an origin since He always existed. Scientists as little as 100 years ago believed the universe was eternal. But they now believe the universe had a definite beginning -- much like Genesis believes the universe had a definite beginning.
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zooterkin said:
Please name just one of these centenarian scientists.
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Einstein for one. That's why he added his fudge factor. Because it was difficult for him to accept that the universe had a definite beginning.
 
DOC said:
Well the God of Christianity is "eternal" by definition so the Christian God can't have an origin since He always existed. Scientists as little as 100 years ago believed the universe was eternal. But they now believe the universe had a definite beginning -- much like Genesis believes the universe had a definite beginning.
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What Bible are you reading? The KJV says nothing of the sort:

Genesis 1

[1] In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. [2] And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. [3] And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. [4] And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. [5] And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

[6] And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. [7] And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. [8] And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
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In the beginning, God creates the heaven and the earth. Clearly the earth is not the same as the universe. The heaven, which we see further down, is the firmament--a separation of the waters. The firmament is likewise not the universe. Where is the universe ever mentioned?

If the universe is eternal, as you say God is, it would have given him a convenient place to stand/float while waiting to pop through the clouds.
 
volatile said:
DOC - is there a reason you're ignoring my posts? I am offering to pay for you to get the answers to these questions. I will send you two excellent books that will lay out what you want to know. Will you read them?
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So the answers to these questions are in a book? Why don't you bring excerpts from these books in here so we all can see them?
 
DOC said:
So the answers to these questions are in a book? Why don't you bring excerpts from these books in here so we all can see them?
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You know what, DOC? I may be a new guy to these forums, but I think this thread is enough for me to understand what your self appointed purpose here is.

Look at the above, why didn't you actually answer the question?

I have noticed you have only two methods of answering questions personally directed at you:

1) Ignore and change the subject.

2) You answer with a question.

Your method of discussion reminds me of my niece, asking "Why?" to every response given. I'm calling you out right now and asking you to respond to the question asked of you by joobz:

Do you believe that when the universe was a singularity that it did not exist?

Do you have the capacity to answer this very direct question with a "yes" or a "no" or are you going to continue to ignore it?
 
DOC said:
Einstein for one. That's why he added his fudge factor. Because it was difficult for him to accept that the universe had a definite beginning.
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Could you expand on what this fudge factor is please.
 
DOC said:
Just curious how 4000 atheists were contacted to do a poll.
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I don't really care if 40,000 atheists believed that freaking magic brought them into existance what does your question have to do with anything? What does the opinion of atheists have to do with anything? Are you attempting to refute atheism via "fact" attrition? If you compile enough entirely unrelated factoids on atheism you can strawman the group together and avoid having to actually debate whether or not gods actually exist? Christian apologists have been doing that for years and it has yet to work. Ask Vox Day, I don't think he's over came up with a meaningful argument regarding the existance of his LORD in his life.
 
DOC said:
Originally Posted by DOC

...natural forces didn't exist at the time of the Big Bang.




Name two natural physical laws that existed at the time of the Big Bang?
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You've ignored my questions on this subject. I do not know what you mean by Natural forces. (which you are now calling natural physical laws). These ideas are not synonymous. As such, We need for you to define what you are talking about in order to answer your question.

You could start by first describing what are the natural forces responsible for turning "water to steam"? Why do you believe these forces are not present during the big bang?
 
DOC said:
So the answers to these questions are in a book? Why don't you bring excerpts from these books in here so we all can see them?
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They're in many books. I'm just recommending two of the more accessible ones. Will you read them?
 
DOC said:
So the answers to these questions are in a book? Why don't you bring excerpts from these books in here so we all can see them?
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Why don't you just read the books instead? Why do you seek a superficial overview instead of actual knowledge? Are you just scared out of your mind at the thought of actually learning things? People (including me) are willing to GIVE YOU FREE BOOKS. That's how confident we are. Are you confident enough to read those books?
 
volatile said:
They're in many books. I'm just recommending two of the more accessible ones. Will you read them?
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These forums are about discussing. If you have answers "discuss" them? Don't tell me they're someplace else? If I thought for a second that your books had answers, I would take the time in my busy life to read them. The fact that you won't discuss them in a discussion arena makes me suspicious. You sound like an author who wants to promote books.
 
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DOC said:
These forums are about discussing. If you have answers "discuss" them? Don't tell me there someplace else? If I thought for a second that your books had answers, I would take the time in my busy life to read them. The fact that you won't discuss them in a discussion arena makes me suspicious. You sound like an author who wants to promote books.
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I can assure you that I am not Richard Dawkins or Simon Singh posting under a pseudonym.

I can also assure you that if you truly want to learn about evolution or the big bang, a 75,000 word book written by an expert in the field will be much more interesting, comprehensive and enlightening than a few quips from interested amateurs on an internet forum.

I am offering to buy you books. They have all the answers to the questions you post here on a regular basis. If you are asking these questions in good faith - that is, if you genuinely want to know the answers to them and are not just asking them mendaciously - these two books are fantastic and easy-to-read starting points for entry to what are complex, vast subjects.

Will you read them? If not, why not?
 
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JoeEllison said:
Why don't you just read the books instead? Why do you seek a superficial overview instead of actual knowledge? Are you just scared out of your mind at the thought of actually learning things? People (including me) are willing to GIVE YOU FREE BOOKS. That's how confident we are. Are you confident enough to read those books?
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See post 97 for my response to this? You and others seem to be saying "Hey this stuff is too complex to discuss in Randi!" You don't see me saying that about the Bible, I discuss things.
 
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