I can't see why they bother with the "Flight 93" conspiracy.

[TC329]

Readers please note - What an eyewitness says and what CIT report on often aren't the same thing.

As this thread shows, people like TC and CIT lie about what they hear and read.

readers please note - david did not actually say anything i said was a lie because he can't because it is all true.

so david please tell the 'readers' what part of the following is a lie :

i don't call the eyewitnesses [all 13 of them] that place the plane over the navy annex and between citgo and arlington national cemetary "stupid".

i also don't believe officer roberts is "stupid" for seeing the plane fly over.

 

[Reheat]

Several local people believe they hear a missile overhead just before Flight 93 goes down. Barry Lichty, a US Navy veteran and mayor of Indian Lake Borough (just to the east of where Flight 93 crashes), is watching television with his wife. He says he hears “a loud roar above the house that sounded like a missile.… Shortly thereafter, we heard an explosion and a tremor. My first reaction, as a former utility employee, was that maybe someone shot a missile into the substation.” He says Flight 93 “did not come over my house. I don’t know what we heard.” [Kashurba, 2002, pp. 158-159]

There's those similes again.

What kind of air-to-air missile makes a whistling sound? What kind of air-to-air missile makes a roar? Did Barry Lichty ever hear and air-to-air missile in his life?

Did he or have you ever heard a big "honking" aircraft diving toward the ground with engines at near full throttle?

Troofers amuse me with their "logic" and you are one of the winners in that category. Not many others are close.....

You even make my dog laugh.....

 

[TC329]

Among other things she say is that the Pentagon had a missile defense system. My, my you have such incredible witnesses to quote....

hmmmmmm april gallop pentagon employee who would know this.....

'reheat' super anonymous armchair research authoritive.....

yep she's still way more credible than the troll.......

He didn't see an aircraft flyover, but you are stupid for believing that he did.

so you're argument is to call officer roosevelt roberts a liar?

yeah that's gonna help your side win an argument. maybe you should be like ron and start calling the guy a drunk without a single drop of supporting evidence to help protect bushco?

Well, anything that anyone provides to debunk anything you say is infinitely better than what you have - a train load full of stoopid!

"stoopid" is how i feel for giving this post the time of day.

 

[TC329]

There's those similes again.

What kind of air-to-air missile makes a whistling sound? What kind of air-to-air missile makes a roar? Did Barry Lichty ever hear and air-to-air missile in his life?

Did he or have you ever heard a big "honking" aircraft diving toward the ground with engines at near full throttle?

Troofers amuse me with their "logic" and you are one of the winners in that category. Not many others are close.....

You even make my dog laugh.....

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/1840748075c97c9b2a.jpg

reheat you can make fun of people or you can explain what flew over indian lake prior to the explosion in shanksville less than 2 miles away.

i bet you'll stick with the first option.

troll.

 

[WildCat]

reheat you can make fun of people or you can explain what flew over indian lake prior to the explosion in shanksville less than 2 miles away.

Nobody cares TC. The fact is that the remains of Flight 93 and its passengers and crew was found at the crash site.

i bet you'll stick with the first option.

I bet you will continue to ignore the overwhelming physical evidence and instead continue in your campaign of cherry-picked quote mining.

troll.

Pot, the kettle is calling...

 

[Reheat]

hmmmmmm april gallop pentagon employee who would know this.....

Hehehehe, her evidence is a tour in which the guide said "This is the most secure building in the world". That's her evidence. Prove otherwise?

so you're argument is to call officer roosevelt roberts a liar?

Nope, not at all, but you are for saying that he witnessed a flyover.

yeah that's gonna help your side win an argument. maybe you should be like ron and start calling the guy a drunk without a single drop of supporting evidence to help protect bushco?

A rational person would need to be dead drunk to believe your crap.

"stoopid" is how i feel for giving this post the time of day.

In reality you should feel the same way regarding ALL of your posts.

 

[Reheat]

reheat you can make fun of people or you can explain what flew over indian lake prior to the explosion in shanksville less than 2 miles away.

Don't be confused, I'm poking fun at YOU.

How 'bout NOTHING flew over Indian Lake? Now, that was easy, wasn't it?

 

[Alt+F4]

I'm not quite sure why you would compare a crash site in a swamp with one in a dirt clearing. Also, there are 592 pics of large pieces of the plane kept in a hangar. There's nothing comparable to that with 93.

In the Valujet crash, the depth of the water in the swamp ranged from 6-inches to 5-feet, but underneath the water was muck that was as deep as 30-to 40-feet (underneath that was bedrock). You would think that all that muck would have slowed the plane down before being destroyed against the bedrock, but crashing at 500 mph, that's not what happened.

Only 75% of the plane was ever recovered and only 37 of the 110 victim's bodies were found.

 

[jhunter1163]

TC, maybe you missed this in the other thread:

On May 18, 1980, I was visiting some friends of mine in southwestern Washington State when Mt. St. Helens erupted. At the time of the eruption, I was walking down a Forest Service road. I saw the entire northwest side of the mountain just kind of slide off, followed by an enormous explosion.

Now, as it turned out, it was the northeast side of the mountain that collapsed. I would have sworn in court that it was the northwest side. I spent many, many hours of my youth on those Forest Service roads, and I knew exactly where I was in relation to the mountain. Still and all, I was simply... wait for it... mistaken.

What can we conclude from this little story? Eyewitnesses, even to dramatic events, are not infallible and should not be treated as such.

Now, I'm not equating a volcanic eruption to a plane crash. I was a good 30 miles away from the mountain and knew I wasn't in immediate danger. Still, it was the most dramatic thing I ever saw, and I got an important detail wrong.

My point is that your NoC witnesses, and your Shanksville witnesses too, are at best mistaken. Not lying, mistaken. At worst, they've had their stories twisted and quote-mined to support some bizarre theory that doesn't even rise to the level of wrong.

 

[Reheat]

Several local people believe they hear a missile overhead just before Flight 93 goes down. Barry Lichty, a US Navy veteran and mayor of Indian Lake Borough (just to the east of where Flight 93 crashes), is watching television with his wife. He says he hears “a loud roar above the house that sounded like a missile.… Shortly thereafter, we heard an explosion and a tremor. My first reaction, as a former utility employee, was that maybe someone shot a missile into the substation.” He says Flight 93 “did not come over my house. I don’t know what we heard.” [Kashurba, 2002, pp. 158-159]

The amusing thing about these statements is the following:

I have actually fired several air-to-air missiles and I actively participated in the war in Southeast Asia, but I have NEVER ever heard an actual air-to-air missile from the ground except in manufacturer produced videos and testing videos produced by the USAF. That's not Hollywood produced films, but actual films of missiles above air-to-air ranges.

To quote a US Navy Veteran's testimony without further evidence of his job or specific experience as if it's a proven fact is quite simply deceitful.

To think that these witnesses actually heard UA93 in a fatal dive to the ground apparently never occurs to those who want to continue their delusion of a increasingly impossible conspiracy. It's more intriguing to continue these delusions of a nefarious plot by the US Government to destroy the aircraft for some reason concocted by agenda driven fools.

There was no air-to-air missiles fired near Shanksville or anywhere else on 9/11. There were no fighters anywhere near UA93 and TC329's imaginary drone was not capable of carrying or firing an air-to-air missile no matter who kind of vehicle he imagines it to have been.

He needs to keep putting the CIT moniker behind his name as it is the same unadulterated crap misconstrued by agenda driven idiots with absolutely no common sense of reality.

 

[Grizzly Bear]

I'm not quite sure why you would compare a crash site in a swamp with one in a dirt clearing.

No visible debris means no plane right? You seem to have forgotten the point of showing you that. So by your logic if there was not enough visible debris on the crash site there is not enough evidence of a plane right? Hell, they couldn't identify all of the passengers because they were all shredded to tiny pieces by the impact into peat and bedrock. Flight 93 hit solid ground, I'm not sure why it surprises you that there were no intact bodies pulled out or for the matter much in the way of intact air craft.

Also, there are 592 pics of large pieces of the plane kept in a hangar. There's nothing comparable to that with 93.

You missed the point, which I stated above. You made a judgment based on appearance of the crash site. 592 isn't the only example aside from flight 93. I'm aware that what they crashed into is apples and oranges, but that's not what I was getting at.

 

[BenBurch]

Is that the totality of what you have to offer?

No, but it *is* the totality of what you have offered. And you know it, what's more.

 

[Calcas]

FYI for those of you who may have missed it.

TC329 has been suspended for one month for "repeated breaches of his membership agreement." Then he goes on permanent probation.

I think this thread has run it's course.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=120172

 

[Caustic Logic]

So you want us/the gubmint to present you with a ridiculous amount of hard factual evidence, but you want us to just accept your word, is that it?

Uh, considering that he said:
Originally Posted by TC329
"but you'll have to just take my word for now that flight 77 didn't crash in the field in shanksville."

You might want to take his word over your own possible doubts.

 

[Caustic Logic]

ron is talking about people who were aboard the titanic adam. please pay attention.

since no one on board of flight 93 survived i don't think it's fair to try and compare them.

ron is one sick individual imo.

He's not talking about recollections of the dead, evasive faking-dumb non-dumb guy. Survivors - people who saw it and survived to have memories. In boats at the Titanic, on the ground near flight 93, at the citgo and elsewhere at the Pentagon, etc. On chat forums you can find surviving witnesses to you acting like an idiot and just spewing nonsense and failing at life. Some might remember you being brilliant and correct and courageous, but that doesn't change the fact that you actually were a big liar and sank.

well april gallop survived the attack on the pentagon and she insists it wasn't hit by a plane.

there was no plane, she says, because there was no jet fuel, no plane parts at all, and this is known to be wrong. Yet she calmly says "the plane story is there to brainwash people," and she had men in black insist she beeter say plane or else... nothing. April also said incorrectly that she climbed out of a small "perfectly round" hole the plane couldn't fit in (there was no such hole at the front, where she was) . She also says her wristwatch was stopped by the bombs at 9:32. Actually that's acc. to Honegger, who also maintains April also says SHE blew up the Pentagon, by pressing the power button on her computer (see "Clout" program, Air America, May 15 2008). She is insane, attention-seeking, lying, disinfo, distorted in her words, or something other than right. Not a witness to come back at me with!

i don't call the eyewitnesses [all 13 of them] that place the plane over the navy annex and between citgo and arlington national cemetary "stupid".

i also don't believe officer roberts is "stupid" for seeing the plane fly over.

What??? The witnesses are just wrong, or grossly misread, or both, Not "stupid," and I never said this. I said "CIT-stupid" not "witnesses-stupid." Please take a remedial reading comprehension class. IMO they are not actually stupid anyway. It takes a certain intelligence to craft a CIT-stupid argument.

 

[Caustic Logic]

FYI for those of you who may have missed it.

TC329 has been suspended for one month for "repeated breaches of his membership agreement." Then he goes on permanent probation.

I think this thread has run it's course.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=120172

Should read to the end - Mighta saved me some time.

 

[Pardalis]

Red, I believe you haven't responded to my post yet (among others)

That's because there weren't any bodies left, just a few body parts.

If you actually read Gravy's links, you would have read this:

"the 33 passengers, seven crew and four hijackers together weighed roughly 7,000 pounds. They were essentially cremated together upon impact.[...] were able to find about 1,500 mostly scorched samples of human tissue totaling less than 600 pounds, or about 8 percent of the total."

Not gruesome enough for you? Still feel the need to insult the death of these people?

So, how do you account for the forensic experts and pathologists' testimonies, or do you choose to remain "agnostic" in face of the evidence?

You also left this post unanswered:

bump for RED

Have you contacted any of the first responders? Please let us know.

 

[RedIbis]

Red, I believe you haven't responded to my post yet (among others)



So, how do you account for the forensic experts and pathologists' testimonies, or do you choose to remain "agnostic" in face of the evidence?

You also left this post unanswered:

I really hope you're not waiting around for me to answer hypothetical, leading questions.

As for Mr. Herbert's post, what first responders I have or haven't contacted is of no relevance to this topic. You suffer from the preconception that because you disagree with my POV, I could not have possibly done outside research, including speaking with people on the scene, during 9/11. Playing the "who have you contacted" gambit is cheap and transparent.

Although I've stated this in every possible way, I'm only responding now in hopes that you'll disavow yourself of obnoxious cross thread stalking and bumping threads for irrelevant "questions."

 

[Pardalis]

How do you account for the forensic experts and pathologists' testimonies that they did, in fact, recover body parts and DNA from the passengers and crew?

This seems like a relevant and pertinent question.

Answer.

Your pathetic attempts to avoid the question will not make the evidence go away.

 

[gumboot]

For what it's worth I've seen a photograph of human remains recovered from Shanksville. It was bone fragments, in a bucket (white, from memory).