I can't see why they bother with the "Flight 93" conspiracy.

[Caustic Logic]

Right on. Good stuff. If that photo is oriented due north I'd say it IS a bit west, but more SSW, or basically south, pretty close to 187-ish heading. Calling this just "west" is a play right from the Aldo C-130 playbook.

TC is looking CIT-stupider all the time.

 

[Norseman]

Right on. Good stuff. If that photo is oriented due north I'd say it IS a bit west, but more SSW, or basically south, pretty close to 187-ish heading. Calling this just "west" is a play right from the Aldo C-130 playbook.

TC is looking CIT-stupider all the time.

Yes the photo is oriented due north. The road that runs through the wood is running along the north-south line, just deviating a bit SSE. This can be confirmed by looking at this aerial photograph of the area in Google Maps, the maps and photographs in Google Maps is of course oriented due north.

Google Maps: Shanksville Flight 93 Crash Site

The burned out wood patch in the photo Beachnut posted has been cut down, but the outline of where the trees stood are clearly identifiable in the aerial photograph.

 

[Mr.Herbert]

From Gravy's site:

 

[RedIbis]

Liar.

Is that the totality of what you have to offer?

 

[tsig]

yeah like suddenly you're not the enemy anymore......

Reality is your enemy.

 

[Wolrab]

What's to stop the crack investigating team from rolling up their sleeves and going to Shanksville (other than residents and their shotguns) and scouring the area for missed debris? If all the wreckage wasn't in the impact crater, wouldn't there still be debris in the large area they claim? The original searchers wouldn't have been able to find every last scrap. The crack investigating team, being so much smarter than the official conspiracists, should be able to find evidence that supports their theory (they certainly wouldn't publish anything that doesn't support it). Hell, if they got a raging clue that pays off, they could be legends in minds other than their own.

I understand this might involve actually walking around and possibly getting bugs in your hair, but just think of the thrill of finding just one missile part or even a body part to fondle and covet.

 

[Lensman]

but you'll have to just take my word for now that flight 77 didn't crash in the field in shanksville.

So you want us/the gubmint to present you with a ridiculous amount of hard factual evidence, but you want us to just accept your word, is that it?

 

[John Blonn]

I still don't get why the gubmint would fake a crash scene that was so 'obviously' fake. I guess it all makes sense somehow in a conspiracists Weltanschauung.

 

[Grizzly Bear]

Is that the totality of what you have to offer?

I could badger you with the valujet 592 crash scene... just to play with your mind... I've mentioned that crash a few times already but it flies over everybodies head...

Care to locate that plane in the crater?
LINK

If "There's not enough debris in the crater" is the only argument you have to offer as to why you believe flight 93 didn't crash in Shankesville you need to come up with a better argument red.

I still haven't gotten an answer... I don't want you or TC to tapdance around this. I'll repeat this as many times as necessary.

 

[RedIbis]

I could badger you with the valujet 592 crash scene... just to play with your mind... I've mentioned that crash a few times already but it flies over everybodies head...

Care to locate that plane in the crater?
LINK

If "There's not enough debris in the crater" is the only argument you have to offer as to why you believe flight 93 didn't crash in Shankesville you need to come up with a better argument red.

I still haven't gotten an answer... I don't want you or TC to tapdance around this. I'll repeat this as many times as necessary.

I'm not quite sure why you would compare a crash site in a swamp with one in a dirt clearing. Also, there are 592 pics of large pieces of the plane kept in a hangar. There's nothing comparable to that with 93.

 

[WildCat]

I'm not quite sure why you would compare a crash site in a swamp with one in a dirt clearing. Also, there are 592 pics of large pieces of the plane kept in a hangar. There's nothing comparable to that with 93.

Without looking through the rest of the thread, you have no intention of contacting any of the people who worked the "ditch", recovering arcraft and body parts, correct? And instead, you will accuse them of being liars and in on it.

Red will run away from this question, that's the kind of guy he is.

 

[OldTigerCub]

so you're theory is the plane was flying towards indian lake despite the amount of physics you have to ignore from the fact that the blast trajectory of the debris is going west into the woods and away from indian lake?

fascinating explain how that happens.

I don't have a theory. I look at the physical evidence and come to a conclusion. I did not say Flight 93 was heading toward Indian Lake when in impacted, rather that the debris field was determined by the direction of the crash and the direction of the wind. Indian Lake was downwind of the crash on that day.
The magnetic heading at impact was 187deg (slightly west of due south) and the immediate obvious damage to the treeline corresponds directly with that heading. Up to that point the aircraft had been on a heading of 120 - 122 deg until the time that the passeger revolt began. From that point it veered to the north-east, then made a turn back toward the south-east and then south as it made it's final dive into the ground.
To say that the blast was to the west is immaginative at best, and an outright and deliberate misinterpretation at the worst.

add into the fact that there isn't a trail of debris from the crater to indian lake but 2 fields entirely separate.

indian lake marina owner jim brandt and his employees carol delasko, john fleegle, & tom spinelli all hear the engines of a low flying plane prior to the crash.

mayor barry lichty confirms that a plane did indeed fly over his house at indian lake before the explosion and was later told it wasn't flight 93 and was never told what plane it in fact was.

indian lake groundskeeper chris smith hears a 'screaming' thing fly overhead towards the crash site prior to the explosion.

val mcclatchey hears a low flying plane pass over her house towards the crash site prior to the explosion. it in fact enables her to turn her head and see out the window the plane plummeting to the ground. her house is between the crash site and indian lake.

jim stop is fishing in indian lake and sees a plane fly by "breaking apart in the sky" prior to the explosion.

Once again, physical evidence trumps eyewitness testimony in any investigation.

Edit: By the way, I'm on the way out the door to take a service call at Ligonier, and will probably stop by the memorial if I have time. Do ya want any pictures of the construction?

 

[TC329]

Did all the Flight 93 witnesses you interviewed die? No?

ron is talking about people who were aboard the titanic adam. please pay attention.

since no one on board of flight 93 survived i don't think it's fair to try and compare them.

ron is one sick individual imo.

Then his analogy is just as applicable here as it is at the Pentagon, to the extent that you rely on peoples' often confused recollections.

well april gallop survived the attack on the pentagon and she insists it wasn't hit by a plane.

I don't know how applicable it is really, as I haven't seen your work on this yet. Is it available?

susan mcelwain's interview is easily available. go to google video.
wally miller's interview is next.

I will say your take on 93 is not normal CIT-stupid, at least on its face.

i don't call the eyewitnesses [all 13 of them] that place the plane over the navy annex and between citgo and arlington national cemetary "stupid".

i also don't believe officer roberts is "stupid" for seeing the plane fly over.

hopefully when you attempt to debunk the shoot down of this plane you will have better arguments that it's "stupid".

 

[DavidJames]

i don't call the eyewitnesses [all 13 of them] that place the plane over the navy annex and between citgo and arlington national cemetary "stupid".

i also don't believe officer roberts is "stupid" for seeing the plane fly over.

Readers please note - What an eyewitness says and what CIT report on often aren't the same thing.

As this thread shows, people like TC and CIT lie about what they hear and read.

 

[TC329]

The debris is south of the impact crater, not west! The debris at Indian Lake floated on the air to the lake. Did you miss that? The wind was blowing it to Indian Lake, did you check the wind!?

after seeing adam get fooled by your disinformation i thought i would temporarily take you off ignore just to humiliate you for old times sake.

please post a picture capturing the wooden area destroyed in the attack and indian lake. then prove those woods are south of the crash site and not west/southwest blast trajectory. the world will be waiting for you to admit you are both ignorant as an ass and completely wrong as usual.

No you are a liar. Mayor Barry Lickty never said 93 flew over his house, he said this.

Several local people believe they hear a missile overhead just before Flight 93 goes down. Barry Lichty, a US Navy veteran and mayor of Indian Lake Borough (just to the east of where Flight 93 crashes), is watching television with his wife. He says he hears “a loud roar above the house that sounded like a missile.… Shortly thereafter, we heard an explosion and a tremor. My first reaction, as a former utility employee, was that maybe someone shot a missile into the substation.” He says Flight 93 “did not come over my house. I don’t know what we heard.” [Kashurba, 2002, pp. 158-159]

mayor barry lichty confirms that a plane did indeed fly over his house at indian lake before the explosion and was later told it wasn't flight 93 and was never told what plane it in fact was.

so what plane flew over his house prior to the crash in shanksville about a mile or two west of his house troll?

Guess what they found between the impact crater and the lake. Sorry, why are you making up stuff?

i don't know, what?

wally miller said the debris all blasted into that wooden area which is the opposite direction of indian lake. in fact all the 'bystanders' would be standing in this imaginary debris trail you insist exists but like always have no evidence to support your baseless insane conspiracy theories with.

So far you have messed up everything.

you sure do beachy.....this is why you're on ignore with bobert.
2 peas in a pod and half a brain shared between you two......

 

[TC329]

Right on. Good stuff. If that photo is oriented due north I'd say it IS a bit west, but more SSW, or basically south, pretty close to 187-ish heading. Calling this just "west" is a play right from the Aldo C-130 playbook.

adam i can see you're almost being honest but then you side with the neonazicon loyalists in the end.

hey adam would you say indian lake was in the direction of the blast trajectory into the woods?

TC is looking CIT-stupider all the time.

says the man following dishonest trolls.........

 

[X]

ron is talking about people who were aboard the titanic adam. please pay attention.

since no one on board of flight 93 survived i don't think it's fair to try and compare them.

ron is one sick individual imo.

You are deliberately misrepresenting what Pomeroo is asking of you.
That is highly dishonest.

You know damn well that he is not suggesting you ask survivors of Flight 93 for their accounts. Pretending otherwise is immitating idiocy to aviod looking like a moron by answering a logcal quesiton that will undermine your adherence to those 13 witnesses (of how many?).



Ron is making a point about that eyewitness testimony of an event (in this case, people watching the sinking of the Titanic from lifeboats or the water) resulting in differing accounts.
Individual eyewitness accounts will vary, depending on the individual's mental state at the time, their perceptions, and where they were located.

Whether or not the witnesses were escapees from a sinking ocean liner or civilians on the ground as an aircraft passed over head DOES NOT MATTER!

You know this.
Why are you being so dishonest on this point?


And using your intentional misrepresentation to try to insult Ron is despicable.


Grow up, TC.

 

[TC329]

From Gravy's site:

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z204/CaptainObvious2007/Debris_Field-full-1.jpg

wow mark roberts being dishonest again.....

who would have thought?

it is clearly evident that the blast trajectory into the woods is not consistent with this image as the woods are not south/southeast of the crash site.

amazing how you people all believe conspiracy liars when you're all exposed as fools by anyone smart enough to figure out how to use google maps......

 

[Reheat]

ron is one sick individual imo.

That is really funny coming from you. You....on the other hand??????

well april gallop survived the attack on the pentagon and she insists it wasn't hit by a plane.

Among other things she says is that the Pentagon had a missile defense system. My, my you have such incredible witnesses to quote....

i also don't believe officer roberts is "stupid" for seeing the plane fly over.

He didn't see an aircraft flyover, but you are stupid for believing that he did.

hopefully when you attempt to debunk the shoot down of this plane you will have better arguments that it's "stupid".

Well, anything that anyone provides to debunk anything you say is infinitely better than what you have - a train load full of stoopid!

 

[TC329]

I still don't get why the gubmint would fake a crash scene that was so 'obviously' fake.

quit trying to discredit me by associating me no planers troll.......