Gun Violence Supported In The USA

stilicho

Trurl's Electronic Bard
stilicho
Joined
Feb 6, 2007
Messages
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http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/366221_guns08.html

Again, a responsible American politician is threatened by gun advocates as innocent people get shot by someone.

From the article:

"This...is the only time I've heard of some guy with a concealed pistol license doing something like that..."

That's the voice of gun advocacy again. Certainly he must have heard of at least one other American gun owner shooting someone. Gun advocates ought to stop lying, first, and then begin to understand the remainder of their irrational fascination with firearms.
 
But has someone with a concealed pistol licence done something like this in the past?
 
Mmm, then keeping guns out the hands of disturbed people seems like a no-brainer to me. Just as I wouldn't want the disturbed to have access to cars or other potentially dangeours implements.
 
And the gun lobby wil respond in

3.......2.........1...........
 
... 0 ... "Hey, owning Guns is like having a HUUUUUUUGE penis." :)
 
Oliver said:
... 0 ... "Hey, owning Guns is like having a HUUUUUUUGE penis." :)
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freud.jpg
 
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If Seattle is issuing concealed-carry permits, and yet their qualification process allows mentally-unstable individuals to obtain them, then obviously they need to do something about that.
However...This is not an easy thing. At present, due to patient confidentiality regulations, it may not be possible for the city (or state) to access these records without the express permission of the patient.
One could, I suppose, say "no records, no pistol". I wonder how long that would hold up?

Also, it's quite possible for an individual in a perfectly sound state of mental health to obtain a permit and then months later suffer from severe depression or some other mental illness and decide that shooting folks is a great idea.
Of course, the permitting process assumes that individuals will actually do it. As pointed out in the article, most of the gun violence in that particular city seems to be caused by juicy young men who are illegally in possession of weapons and illegally carrying them.
Tightening up regulations on concealed-carry permits would have no effect whatever on these particular persons.

In the recent well-publicized Kirkwood city hall shooting here, the shooter was apparently driven to his act by his long history of problems with the city, and his growing paranoia.
He used a stolen handgun to shoot one of the police officers casually "guarding" the meeting, then used that and the officer's weapon to go on his rampage.
Difficult to regulate against such an act... Other than to make all of the millions of handguns in the US evaporate in some way.
By and large, states that have enacted concealed-carry legislation have had a very low incidence of problems with same. Criminals, for some reason, don't bother...
 
Allow me to be reiterative, yet it's cases like these that lead me to be a strong advocate for stricter licensing, with periodic examination of competency. Across the board, whether teaching, operating a vehicle, or owning a weapon. Licensing does not infringe, but rather qualifies. ;)
 
Bikewer said:
If Seattle is issuing concealed-carry permits, and yet their qualification process allows mentally-unstable individuals to obtain them, then obviously they need to do something about that....
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WA is one of the "shall issue" states. If a person can legally own a handgun, then they can receive a permit on demand after applying and paying the fee.

Mayor Nickels convened a summit on gun violence focusing in part on the gun show loophole. At least the reporter called it the "so-called gun show loophole".

I was at the forum in Olympia when the legislature was trying to pass various gun control laws including a ban on certain rifles and background checks on some private sales. Very little evidence was presented by supporters of the bills, mostly just emotional anecdotes, (including a suicide statistic from Switzerland that got a few snickers from the crowd) and an admission from a police officer that the firearms they wanted to ban were never involved in any crime in the state.

Ranb
 
Bikewer said:
If Seattle is issuing concealed-carry permits, and yet their qualification process allows mentally-unstable individuals to obtain them, then obviously they need to do something about that.
However...This is not an easy thing. At present, due to patient confidentiality regulations, it may not be possible for the city (or state) to access these records without the express permission of the patient.
One could, I suppose, say "no records, no pistol". I wonder how long that would hold up?
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It sounds like the most recent Seattle shooter should have been ineligible for a concealed-carry permit, which I assume would be the strictest kind of firearms permit offered there.

However, the main issue is the ease with which handguns can be purchased. Mental illness, diagnosed or not, is not reason to deny someone the right to purchase a handgun according to federal law (and I'm assuming according to most state laws).

If a person has been involuntarily committed to a mental institution or has been adjudicated to be mentally unfit, their name is supposed to go into the federal database of forbidden buyers. It's up to the states to supply the feds with that list, but compliance is extremely spotty at best.
 
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stilicho said:
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/366221_guns08.html

Again, a responsible American politician is threatened by gun advocates as innocent people get shot by someone.

From the article:

"This...is the only time I've heard of some guy with a concealed pistol license doing something like that..."

That's the voice of gun advocacy again. Certainly he must have heard of at least one other American gun owner shooting someone. Gun advocates ought to stop lying, first, and then begin to understand the remainder of their irrational fascination with firearms.
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You think all gun owners have a concealed carry permit?

Shootings by someone with a concealed carry permit are extremely rare, and I'm not aware of any gun lobby that is against denying such permits to the mentally ill.
 
Here in SC, when you file a CWP application you have to include a listing and explanation of any legal issues you've ever including all traffic violations, any medications you are on, and any mental issues you've had. Being dishonest or incomplete about any of it can get you disqualified.

Like Wildcat said, in relation to the total number of gun owners, the number of people with CWP (or CCW depending on the state you're in) licenses is pretty small. And the quote from the Gun Week editor is absolutely correct, it is an aberration for anyone with their license to do this.

Taking away a carry license isn't going to stop someone who is planning to commit illegal acts with guns from transporting them to places where they can be used to commit said acts... it just takes one away from the person who might have been able to keep everyone around them from being fish in a barrel.
 
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I respect guns and therefore have a mid-sized penis.
 
I drive a Saturn and only carry small guns to make sure the ladies don't get the wrong idea. :cool:
 
WildCat said:
You think all gun owners have a concealed carry permit?

Shootings by someone with a concealed carry permit are extremely rare, and I'm not aware of any gun lobby that is against denying such permits to the mentally ill.
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True, though we should still be vigilant, and be wary of a slip-up. As of now, this isn't a problem, and so lets keep it that way.

Note that I'm not saying to do away with these permits. But history has shown us that carelessness in firearm distribution can result in problems.
 
The Painter said:
[qimg]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v148/Lexapro/freud.jpg[/qimg]
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Or not.

But you don't actually care what Freud had to say on the subject, do you? You people who bring it up don't care either, do you? Freudian psychology just a convenient excuse to make this personal, isn't it?

Drudgewire said:
Like Wildcat said, in relation to the total number of gun owners, the number of people with CWP (or CCW depending on the state you're in) licenses is pretty small. And the quote from the Gun Week editor is absolutely correct, it is an aberration for anyone with their license to do this.
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While I believe Workman is right that most crimes are not commited by licenced owners, if he is actually not aware of any other cases of people with CWP (or CCW) using their weapons to attack innocent people, he is either surprisingly oblivious about facts important to his trade - or he is lying. He certainly deserves to be criticized for such a statement.
 
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Rufo said:
While I believe Workman is right that most crimes are not commited by licenced owners, if he is actually not aware of any other cases of people with CWP (or CCW) using their weapons to attack innocent people, he is either surprisingly oblivious about facts important to his trade - or he is lying. He certainly deserves to be criticized for such a statement.
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I'm not saying there aren't any other examples... I'm saying a quick google search didn't find any. And I know there are no documented instances of a CWP holder shooting a completely innocent person in my state.

So feel free to trot out a few articles proving he's oblivious or lying if he doesn't konw of plenty of examples which would invalidate his statement. :popcorn1

ETA: By "no instances," I mean "no instances where they'd need a CWP." I'm sure a few CWP owners have shot their wives in their bedroom, but the license was a moot point there.
 
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