I Am Soul

[Paulhoff]

Helloooooo, that was said to edge, I have been having a long time conversation with him, and I know where he is coming from, thank-you.

Helllooooo....Then why are you arguing with edge in this thread? What have your and edges disfunction have to do with this thread?

You think you can now tell me who I can talk to and where, I know NOT.

Paul

 

[Navigator]

You think you can now tell me who I can talk to and where, I know NOT.

I would not be so presumptuous but I do recognize when someone is attempting to twist my words.
I did not TELL you anything; I ASKED you (and edge) a question to do with your dysfunction in regards to each other and why you (both) felt it necessary to conduct your arguments in this thread, which is clearly not called “Here is a place to crap on each others opinions thread”

You of course, have the FREEDOM of CHOICE to continue doing whatever you (both) want to…that is the beauty of FREE WILL…


…Which of course nullifies your assertion that FREE WILL is but a joke?

 

[edge]

Originally Posted by shadron
Sort of negates your whole argument, doesn't it?

And other things.

No it doesn't and I apologize as I wrote in anger. It is a great avatar.
I have been watch the best of SNL lately and another one of Adam Sandler that we purchased and I did get them mixed up after about ten CDS or so.
I loved them all John Candy, John Belushi, Chris Farley, Gilda Radner, Andy Kaufman, Dan Aykroyd, Chevy Chaise, Bill Murray, Steve Martin and the artists that appeared on their show like Joe Cocker, The Band, Brian Wilson, Chuck Berry, The Kinks, George Harrison, and Santana along with many other guest stars.
We got the one with Adam Sandler the other day and it was the funniest one of them all, he was the most multitalented and outstanding of all I believe, “Iraqi Pete and Oprahman made tears of joy come to my eyes”.
Watching those CDs: Brought back many memories
From your link Randfan,

"Incompetent individuals were less able to recognize competence in others," the researchers concluded.
"This article may contain faulty logic, methodological errors or poor communication," they cautioned in their journal report. "Let us assure our readers that to the extent this article is imperfect, it is not a sin we have committed knowingly."

This works both ways and you seem to insinuate that believers are ignorant which is what set me off.
So once again I apologize for my anger.
I will ask that John Candy accepts it too.
I ask for Navigator to accept my apology for bringing religion into the discussion too, I tried to keep it on the level of the discussion but from my stand point of soul I have to, I seem to have and tried not to, and I didn’t mean to crap in here if that is what you think, but Paul and I have been like this to each other for a while and I know where he is coming from also and I try to bring in a little humor in here as to set the mood in a different direction because I know the little things I do cause him to reply more and some what deeper.
I have had this flu bug for 14 days or more and still am not 100%.

There is a lot to be said about humility and I try at least to be that way.
I hope that you navigator try what I suggested earlier in this thread as it will prove your point from more than one source and be a multi leveled form of proof from more than one source.
I hope that soon you will have a story to tell us about and that I can relate the same story that will go back to another verification of proof of soul from another person that lived in the 18 hundreds.

 

[RandFan]

There is a lot to be said about humility and I try at least to be that way.
I hope that you navigator try what I suggested earlier in this thread as it will prove your point from more than one source and be a multi leveled form of proof from more than one source.
I hope that soon you will have a story to tell us about and that I can relate the same story that will go back to another verification of proof of soul from another person that lived in the 18 hundreds.

I don't know what you suggested however I'm not opposed to considering anything.

I have to tell you though that there is a poster on this forum (rcronk) who wants everyone to pray and ask god if Mormonism is true. That's what he did and now he knows that Mormonism is true. He is very adamant about that and very sincere.

Best of luck to you edge.

 

[articulett]

Anecdote, faith, and feelings are elevated to evidence when it confirms the belief the believer "knows"...

For Edge, ever increasing actual evidence--fossils and carbon dating and DNA-- cannot convince him that evolution is a fact.

I think faith just fuzzes peoples thinking regarding objective verifiable facts and everything else (faith, feelings, beliefs, opinions, "subjective truths", wishful thinking, delusions, illusions, mottos, misperceptions, ideals, etc.)

They use language in a way so as to keep facts indistinguishable from non-facts. I think it's an interesting mental game. I think we've all played it at some time. "2+2=4" is a verifiable claim... it's true whether you believe it or not. "I am soul" is not.

 

[edge]

Anecdote, faith, and feelings are elevated to evidence when it confirms the belief the believer "knows"...

For Edge, ever increasing actual evidence--fossils and carbon dating and DNA-- cannot convince him that evolution is a fact.

I think faith just fuzzes peoples thinking regarding objective verifiable facts and everything else (faith, feelings, beliefs, opinions, "subjective truths", wishful thinking, delusions, illusions, mottos, misperceptions, ideals, etc.)

They use language in a way so as to keep facts indistinguishable from non-facts. I think it's an interesting mental game. I think we've all played it at some time. "2+2=4" is a verifiable claim... it's true whether you believe it or not. "I am soul" is not.

The only problem I have with evolution is that scientist are using it to nullify God.
Philosophy, one man and one woman make three or then four and so on.
So in this life instance one and one does not make two unless they don’t have children.
That is also a fact which is true is it not?
So then it must parallel creation and belief in some way, and how we interact with the creator and us with him, it calls for an understanding we still can’t comprehend totally.
Truth it seems can be multi-level in a sense.
I do look at all the facts and there is a multilevel truth that parallels all of what we know so far about religion and evolution.

 

[edge]

I don't know what you suggested however I'm not opposed to considering anything.

I have to tell you though that there is a poster on this forum (rcronk) who wants everyone to pray and ask god if Mormonism is true. That's what he did and now he knows that Mormonism is true. He is very adamant about that and very sincere.

Best of luck to you edge.

It's something I asked Navigator to do a while back in the thread the next time he has an OBE it's a place I asked him to go to and take a look at.
As far as (rcronk), I don't know of that thread or what he has to say.
I believe lots of problems come from lack of humility and some of the other philosophical ideas that we don’t follow which is hard to do at all times.
I’ll do a search on Mormonism and see what it is all about to get knowledge of their beliefs.
Isn’t that based in Utah? Don’t they believe in more than one wife and a couple of other quirks?
Under pants, that can protect them, or something to that effect?

 

[Navigator]

The only problem I have with evolution is that scientist are using it to nullify God.

I don't think they are doing this, although skeptics might be.

Then again, it is good to question that which you are told is 'God'

If there is any fear which might make one shy from this, then (for me at least) there is no value in that particular god-concept.

The universe is so very huge that it is unlikely in our present forms that we will even begin to understand the depth of that Creator in Its wholeness.

But we can understand that the gods of human creation were created to nullify individual and collective growth away from such concepts.

Fear is a handy tool for the job - find ignorance and promote fear.

 

[RandFan]

The only problem I have with evolution is that scientist are using it to nullify God.

Ken Miller who testified on behalf of the platifs (for evolution) in the Kitzmiller trial is a theist. Many evolutionists are theists. Evolution, according to Miller does not nulify god. More importantly it can't nulify god.

Philosophy, one man and one woman make three or then four and so on.
So in this life instance one and one does not make two unless they don’t have children.
That is also a fact which is true is it not?
So then it must parallel creation and belief in some way, and how we interact with the creator and us with him, it calls for an understanding we still can’t comprehend totally.
Truth it seems can be multi-level in a sense.
I do look at all the facts and there is a multilevel truth that parallels all of what we know so far about religion and evolution.

Please forgive me but I really don't know what this means.

Napolean: "You made the system of the world, you explain the laws of all creation, but in all your book you speak not once of the existence of God!"

Laplace: "I did not need to make such an assumption."

I lived a life (25 years) with an assumption of god. I've lived 21 without any such assumption. IMO, it's not needed.

 

[articulett]

Not finding evidence of a creator is not nullifying god. God appears to be whatever people imagine it is. It's kind of hard to find evidence for an undefined invisible undetectable form of consciousness that people learn about via indoctrination and "faith".

Yes, evolution, does make the "original sin" story look like a lame myth... but many theists believe that evolution was god's way of creating humans (Francis Collins for example). You can't really nullify god anymore than you can nullify (falsify) the existence of Ydemons or fairies or magic or any supernatural entity or the matrix. You can only point out that they have as much evidence going for them as the things you don't believe in--none.

 

[edge]

I lived a life (25 years) with an assumption of god. I've lived 21 without any such assumption. IMO, it's not needed.

For you maybe so.
If this is what you need now, so be it. And I have to say may God bless you and I say that to be in agreement with the all and not to be arrogant.

What I was trying to say was that there are two overall truths for us to see, to us all.
It's about, "is there more to do after this life and is there a soul that does this- (more)".
Even a skeptic is playing the devils advocate so you are in the game are you not?
That is an underlying truth that I see, disagreements in principalities.
That ‘s from my perspective, from yours, you are not or at least saying you are not, and which is the truth?
The truth comes to each of us differently, in time.
Observations, interoperations they all change the mind.
What makes the self, change opinions, the all or the self?
I try to see the all and it seems from time to time we do, the- I do applies in this along with others that see the all.
If we look we see, But do we truly see? We will either see on the other side or we won’t.

 

[articulett]

Ugh...
now he sounds like Navigator...

I can't tell the drug users, from the mentally ill, from the religiously inspired. They make no sense to me. Like Tom Cruise and rconk, they seem sincere and happy and like they believe they've tapped into some higher truth... but not anything anyone else finds real or useful or coherent. It just sounds like spin to keep their self important delusion alive to me... chasing their "high", I guess.

 

[Paulhoff]

I was going to go on about how limited their ideas of a so-called god, soul etc where, but why, they have how shown that they are limited.

Paul

 

[HghrSymmetry]

Spooks, demons, gods, fairies, occult, magic, NDE, ghosts, u-fO abductions, Sasquatch, psychics, reincarnation, OBE's, et cetera all appear to be different topics.
It is likely that they are only different names of one over-riding subject...

Human evolutionary psychology.



If the predisposed mechanism for irrationality in specific areas is working as it has developed over time, they will have to deny that this mechanisms is contributing to their beliefs.

Delicious irony.

 

[breathe]

Navigator said way back that we were discussing EVERYTHING...and even he has mentioned religion himself so......... why all the apologies? I can only see a certain avatar crapping everywhere........poooooo

Sorry if you do not grasp the meaning that I’m trying to get over to you, too bad.

I shall digress a little here. Last night I sat across from a young girl at a table, she was reading a book between games of BINGO, When I wanted to give her a simple understanding of special relativity and why time slows down with a moving body, with using very little if any math, the old woman she came with said she was to young, "which she wasn't", and she was not given the choice to learn something new and she went back to reading the book, “which she could read later”, between games.

So it is simple to understand that the ideas of so-called free-choice and so-called free-will are bogus, if there is a cost for making the so-called wrong choice, like on religious ideas when having a childish so-called god, when there is no free-will, it has a cost and is therefore is not free. Also in everyday day life, one makes choices all day long, to do one thing may mean you can't do something else, and so there is no free-choice. Now if you don't see that, we can talk of how time slows down for a moving body with very little math being needed, there is will and there is choice, but they are anything but free.

Paul

Pauloff you have adjusted your views accordingly, and I see it is all material in the end for some skeptics yes.

However, I don't think an example of a minor with her grandma negates the notion of free will, again there are holes in your argument...thank you.

I believe this is totally free choice. And, even though I don't see the links between your two sentences, please show me how times slows down for a moving body...withOUT freedom....

 

[breathe]

Navigator...or whoever already has the answer anyway.....So...all the best to you...........you have what you want....and more..... Go for it..........

at least delusion is shattered as well as much much more.

 

[lupus_in_fabula]

Whether we have free will or not is entirely up to how we define it. As we move towards the lowest common denominator at our disposal – ultimately physics – then there’s no point in talking about free will at all; either it’s determined or random. But if we talk about how we perceive a situation where we (the self) seemingly have choices to make, it can be said that the act of choosing can be interpreted as a manifestation of free will – but only on a superficial level, and according to a somewhat arbitrary and abstract reference point.

 

[Paulhoff]

Whether we have free will or not is entirely up to how we define it.

That is at the heart, many people who buy into the free-will thing have heard that their all life and really haven't thought deeply about it. It is like people sayings your blood thins in hot weather and not thinking that if it did you would be anemic. There is no decision that does not have a cost of some kind, to do one thing you can not do another at the same time. We are finite beings and everything we do has a limit and a cost.

And the free-will with the so-called god thing is still bogus. There is nothing free about making a so-called bad choice, and the thing is everyone who believes this always thinks they know the right and wrong choices, even if they are not all the same to all people. Their idea of the right and wrong choices are the ones and all other people just don’t get it.

Paul

 

[Navigator]

…my first exceptionally unusual experience.

It was a hot afternoon and I was glad to be home. I went immediately to my room and lay down on the bed.
I must have fallen asleep, because I started lucid dreaming, only without realizing it.
It was the same hot day, and I was glad to get home. I entered the house through a different door, and walked to my room, where I immediately lay down on my bed.
As I was laying there, the room started to spin a little. I put it down to the heat.
Just then, I felt a strong presence of something in the room, and as I became aware of this presence, I immediately heard the sound of a heartbeat.
This presence with the heartbeat I felt to come nearer and nearer to the bed.
I seemed to know where this presence was – close to the floor by the side of the bed (the other side was up against the wall).
As the presence came to the side of the bed, I felt it rise, and as it rose, the sound of the heartbeat grew stronger.
I felt the presence stop once it reached the level of the mattress.
The heartbeat was very loud and strong and steady.
After a short moment, I literally felt the presence swoop into my body through my right left side (I was laying on my back) and at that moment my whole body went completely stiff and I could not move.
I tried to scream out for help. I tried to kick my leg on the wall to make a noise. I was paralyzed and could do nothing.

In the next moment I gained control of my body and I was no longer stiff. I also realized at that moment that I opened my eyes.
There was nothing different about the room. It was exactly as I had seen it with my eyes closed (remembering that my I thought my eyes were open and that I was awake at that time).
The light in the room was the same. It was as if I had been awake and alert with my eyes open the whole time.

I immediately got up and have never forgotten that experience since. That was 27 years ago.

The next experience of similar nature happened 6 years later…

 

[Paulhoff]

Yes, well my friend welcome to the brain.

http://www.csicop.org/doubtandabout/sleep/

Paul



Welcome to yourself....