I Am Soul

edge said:
The individual has freewill as to the choice, tree, firewood, and an acorn that grows or is infertile and turns back to dirt, the squirrel can come along and eat it, and the replanting is up to God?
Life, death, into the light, or into the darkness.

This is all assuming there is a soul which I know to be true.
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Which of the magical so-called gods wants it replanted.

Freewill is a joke, nothing is free, choice always has a cost.

Paul

:) :) :)
 
Navigator said:
Where is your evidence for this being fact?
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So, no matter what you do, you can also be doing something else that the same time. Gee, I go to Disney World and go work at the same time for the money to pay for Disney World, why the hell didn't I think of that before.

Paul

:) :) :)

Also I go to England at the same time, since I have the money.
 
RandFan said:
In other words, ignorant people are likely to "know" that they are right in their assesments. Educated people are likely to question their world view and provisionally accept as true their world view.
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What a smug picture you have as your avatar, of a man who was famous who you must adore who committed suicide by drug over dose, now there is an intelligent choice for the rational.
I still like him he was hilarious but a person who had everything can lose it all in the moment which is what he did and what you want, what you aspire to can cause you to also lose it all.
I know that you fell away Randifan don’t knock what you don’t believe in any more, I have been where you are.
From my viewpoint the ignorant are the ones that don’t listen and think they to be the educated.

Like your the only ones that question.

Popoff says,
Which of the magical so-called gods wants it replanted.
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The one God that loves even you.
 
The well-known passage from Walt Whitman is a classical expression of this sporadic type of mystical experience.

"I believe in you, my Soul...
Loaf with me on the grass, loose the stop from your throat;...
Only the lull I like, the hum of your valved voice.
I mind how once we lay, such a transparent summer morning.
Swiftly arose and spread around me the peace and knowledge that pass all the argument of the earth,
And I know that the hand of God is the promise of my own,
And I know that the spirit of God is the brother of my own,
And that all the men ever born are also my brothers and the women my sisters and lovers,
And that a kelson of the creation is love." *

* Whitman in another place expresses in a quieter way what was probably with him a chronic mystical perception: "There is," he writes, "apart from mere intellect, in the make-up of every superior human identity, a wondrous something that realizes without argument, frequently without what is called education (though I think it the goal and apex of all education deserving the name), an intuition of the absolute balance, in time and space, of the whole of this multifariousness, this revel of fools, and incredible make-believe and general unsettledness, we call the world; a soul-sight of that divine clue and unseen thread which holds the whole congeries of things, all history and time, and all events, however trivial, however momentous, like a leashed dog in the hand of the hunter. [Of] such soul-sight and root-centre for the mind mere optimism explains only the surface." Whitman charges it against Carlyle that he lacked this perception. Specimen Days and Collect, Philadelphia, 1882, p. 174.
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What I don't understand is how any one can lack this perception, how in this world is it possible?
With all the life that's observable with the possibility that life is at the core of the world.
 
Freewill is a joke, nothing is free, and choice always has a cost.

Paul
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Oh it's free and it will have a cost for the wrong choice, but for the right choice what is there for us?
A good onion, vs. a bad onion, which one will suit the palate.
 
edge said:
What I don't understand is how any one can lack this perception, how in this world is it possible?
With all the life that's observable with the possibility that life is at the core of the world.
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But even Whitman realised the difference between events taking place in his mind and the real life. Perhaps it’s time you should too. In fact, he applauded the scientific principle – perhaps you should read his prose works too? The time between 1855 and 2008 has changed our perception of reality, as well as our vocabulary.
 
Freewill is a joke, nothing is free, choice always has a cost.


Maybe call it 'costwill'? (How much WILL that cost)

Yes, and when you depart from this mortal coil - nothing is for free - but I have no evidence to support that statement.

Cost is relative to your subjective experience.

As long as you are - it will cost you.

If you had no choice initially, then you are without free will, because your will is not your own will, but controlled by circumstances beyond your control?

Your brain did not ask YOU for permission to create your sense of self. How could it? You wern't anything for it to ask.
You are trapped in your mortal frame until it no longer can be sustained and then death - no more decisions! (and no knowing the relief of that moment)
No more will.

except maybe a will...entrusted to carry on your wishes after you have ceased.
That won't be free either!

(Is Disneyland where you get your shot of woo from?)
 
edge said:
Oh it's free and it will have a cost for the wrong choice, but for the right choice what is there for us?
A good onion, vs. a bad onion, which one will suit the palate.
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Why do you think FREE-CHOICE only has to do with your so-called god thing, what a narrow mind you have. But since that is all you understand about free-choice, it can’t be a free-choice if there is a PENALTY for making the wrong one.

For the rest of us, Free-Choice is not free, there is always a cost for doing anything.

Paul

:) :) :)
 
edge said:
Popoff says,
Quote:
Which of the magical so-called gods wants it replanted.


The one God that loves even you.
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Now, why do you have to act like a child again by using names, or is it again that you have lost and that is the only way you know to react.

And this so-called “god loves you thing”, what kind of love is it to condemn someone to hell forever, only a childless so-called god, that’s who.

Paul

:) :) :)
 
breathe said:
This is your belief system then so could you please define cost?
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So you can do things without any cost, "this has nothing to do with money for one thing" like go to grandmom's home and go to the store at the same time.

Paul

:) :) :)

I tried to make the idea of cost easy.................
 
edge said:
What a smug picture you have as your avatar, of a man who was famous who you must adore who committed suicide by drug over dose, now there is an intelligent choice for the rational.
I still like him he was hilarious but a person who had everything can lose it all in the moment which is what he did and what you want, what you aspire to can cause you to also lose it all.
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A smug person yourself, aren't ya? But, unfortunately, not very smart. You need to study up a bit more about your targets before shooting holes in your feet:

wikipedia said:
Candy died in his sleep on March 4, 1994 while on location in Durango, Mexico, filming Wagons East!. He was 43 years old. An autopsy revealed that he had suffered the complete blockage of one of his coronary arteries leading to a myocardial infarction and a fatal cardiac arrhythmia.
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Sort of negates your whole argument, doesn't it?
 
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Why do you think FREE-CHOICE only has to do with your so-called god thing, what a narrow mind you have.

Really? What 'god thing'?
I am a creation of my BRAIN and so are YOU.
All minds are therefore the same width. That is unless you have EVIDENCE which proves otherwise.
Your presumptuous words about who you think I am are what are narrow.


But since that is all you understand about free-choice, it can’t be a free-choice if there is a PENALTY for making the wrong one.

Your life therefore is a penalty, a penitentiary, an entrapment of the brain, 24/7.
Because there is no such thing as ‘right and wrong’ choice when there is no such thing as FREEDOM of choice.
One might hope some get what their heart desires sooner than later. Freedom from all PENALTY.
They deserve that much.


For the rest of us, Free-Choice is not free, there is always a cost for doing anything.


Boo Hoo

COST is in the eye of the beholder.

A personality is free to give love and to receive love.
Where is the cost in that, especially since you only have the ONE finite LIFE?
 
edge said:
From my viewpoint the ignorant are the ones that don’t listen and think they to be the educated.
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I don't claim to "know". You do. Those who know don't question and damn sure don't listen. Why should they, they "know".
 
So you can do things without any cost, "this has nothing to do with money for one thing" like go to grandmom's home and go to the store at the same time.

Paul



I tried to make the idea of cost easy.....................
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Yes easy is best. In your simplistic manner then, I would appreciate it if you could emphasise what meaning you are intending to convey in the above text. :)
 
breathe said:
Yes easy is best. In your simplistic manner then, I would appreciate it if you could emphasise what meaning you are intending to convey in the above text. :)
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Sorry if you do not grasp the meaning that I’m trying to get over to you, too bad.

I shall digress a little here. Last night I sat across from a young girl at a table, she was reading a book between games of BINGO, When I wanted to give her a simple understanding of special relativity and why time slows down with a moving body, with using very little if any math, the old woman she came with said she was to young, "which she wasn't", and she was not given the choice to learn something new and she went back to reading the book, “which she could read later”, between games.

So it is simple to understand that the ideas of so-called free-choice and so-called free-will are bogus, if there is a cost for making the so-called wrong choice, like on religious ideas when having a childish so-called god, when there is no free-will, it has a cost and is therefore is not free. Also in everyday day life, one makes choices all day long, to do one thing may mean you can't do something else, and so there is no free-choice. Now if you don't see that, we can talk of how time slows down for a moving body with very little math being needed, there is will and there is choice, but they are anything but free.

Paul

:) :) :)
 
Navigator said:
Why do you think FREE-CHOICE only has to do with your so-called god thing, what a narrow mind you have.
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Helloooooo, that was said to edge, I have been having a long time conversation with him, and I know where he is coming from, thank-you.

Paul

:) :) :)
 
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Helloooooo, that was said to edge, I have been having a long time conversation with him, and I know where he is coming from, thank-you.

Helllooooo....Then why are you arguing with edge in this thread? What have your and edges disfunction have to do with this thread?
 
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