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AE911Truth Watch

What has Richard Gage produced that's original or in any way uses his supposed expertise?
Research can be just gathering and compiling information. It is not necessary for every investigator to re-invent the wheel.
AE 9/11 Truth has put together a comprehensive power point presentation.
Start withe page 1 and state exactly what you have a problem with and why.

Kevin Ryan isn't qualified to comment.
He is qualified to research UL's records and say that UL did inspect the steel in the Trade Towers.

Stephen Jones may have a physics degree, but it's in a completely different area.
Stephen Jones is a EXPERT on the laws of physics.
He is qualified to say "According to the laws of physics, the Trade Towers could not have collapsed the way they did without explosives.
He doesn't need to know squat about explosives, only that the buildings could not have fallen the way they did without them.
He is also highly qualified to conduct experiments on WTC dust where he has found evidence of thermate.

By the way -
Do you still think that Stephen Jones or Kevin Ryan's 1st amendment rights have been violated?
By making an example of the Dixie Chicks, Kevin Ryan and Stephen Jones, the powers that be send a message to anyone wishing to speak out:
There will be a price to pay for saying something bad about Bush or questioning the Bush/Cheney conspiracy theory.
 
Kevin Ryan's claims were found, in a court of law, to be totally unsupportable.

So much for that idea.
 
because they continue the parrot the same LIES after they were told THEY WERE LIES.
that makes them LIARS
So you are calling them liars.

Some anonymous adolescent claims something they said was a lie and that makes it a lie.

Please list these so-called lies.
 
Stephen Jones is a EXPERT on the laws of physics.
He is qualified to say "According to the laws of physics, the Trade Towers could not have collapsed the way they did without explosives.
He doesn't need to know squat about explosives, only that the buildings could not have fallen the way they did without them.

He is also highly qualified to conduct experiments on WTC dust where he has found evidence of thermate.


So you don't need to know anything about explosives in order to make a statement affirming them as the only plausible explanation for collapse?
I suppose that is true enough, but if someone knows nothing about a claim they make, they should not cling to that claim when someone who actually knows about the subject says it's wrong.

Actually, this raises an interesting question. Christopher7: if your arguments are proven wrong, will you retract them and by extension relinquish any beliefs based upon those errant arguments?



There will be a price to pay for saying something bad about Bush or questioning the Bush/Cheney conspiracy theory.


Bush is a warmongering idiot, and Cheney is a fool who goes on canned hunts and has no concept of firearm safety.
Does this mean they're coming after me?
(I'm not going to comment on the conspiriacy allegation, because that requires a prior belief in a conspiracy, which I don't have.)
 
Originally Posted by Arus808 [qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif[/qimg]
....... the 911 liar movement

Originally Posted by Christopher7 [qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif[/qimg]
No matter how many qualified experts come forward you will call them liars.



You called Stephen Jones, Kevin Ryan, Richard gage and hundreds of other professionals with degrees, LIARS.

.

Judy Woods has a degree in engineering Chris.

Do you accept her contention that DEW were used to 'dustify' the WTC structures?
 
Excuse me? That's not what he said at all. Not only that, but he's wrong. UL certified that the assemblies met ASTM E 119, not the individual components.
I just read "what he said".
He stated his concerns, his reasoning and his references.
He was polite and he did not accuse anyone of anything.
So where is the problem?
 
Judy Woods has a degree in engineering Chris.

Do you accept her contention that DEW were used to 'dustify' the WTC structures?
No
Last year ya'all were demanding statements by experts.

Now that there are lots of qualified experts speaking out,
you imply that qualifications don't mean anything.

:boggled:
 
I just read "what he said".
He stated his concerns, his reasoning and his references.
He was polite and he did not accuse anyone of anything.
So where is the problem?

Hmmm, maybe the problem is that he's wrong. There is a big difference between testing an assembly and testing a component.

He also references softening steel for forging (at 1100 degrees Celsius, no less), which of course is a piss-poor reference for the relationship between temperature, duration of exposure, and the strength of steel. Somewhere in there he manages to confuse heat weakening of steel with "weak steel" (i.e. not up to the engineer's specifications).

In other words, he doesn't know what he is talking about.
 
So you don't need to know anything about explosives in order to make a statement affirming them as the only plausible explanation for collapse?
As a physicist, Jones is qualified* to say that the the laws of physics eliminate the only other possibility:
Trade Towers collapsed under their own weight in 12 to 14 seconds.

*2 PhD's, Prof. of Physics for 20 years [at a very conservative University]
It doesn't get any more qualified than that!

I suppose that is true enough, but if someone knows nothing about a claim they make, they should not cling to that claim when someone who actually knows about the subject says it's wrong.
Correct, you should not claim that Prof. Jones is wrong about the laws of physics and cling to your claim that the Trade Towers collapsed under their own weight in 12 to 14 seconds.

NIST did NOT explain how the Trade Towers collapsed under their own weight in 12 to 14 seconds.

Actually, this raises an interesting question. Christopher7: if your arguments are proven wrong, will you retract them and by extension relinquish any beliefs based upon those errant arguments?
Actually, i have done that several times in the debate about WTC 7 on the "10 story hole" thread.

Bush is a warmongering idiot, and Cheney is a fool who goes on canned hunts and has no concept of firearm safety.
Does this mean they're coming after me?
Hell no, you got their back. [much safer there]
 
Hmmm, maybe the problem is that he's wrong. There is a big difference between testing an assembly and testing a component.
UL would certainly test steel components that were representative of the ones that were to be used in the building.
Who said they did not test the steel components?

He also references softening steel for forging (at 1100 degrees Celsius, no less), which of course is a piss-poor reference for the relationship between temperature, duration of exposure, and the strength of steel. Somewhere in there he manages to confuse heat weakening of steel with "weak steel" (i.e. not up to the engineer's specifications).
In other words, he doesn't know what he is talking about.
Please
Who are you to say this his point is piss-poor?
Are you saying he was fired for making a piss-poor point?

[there's a country song here]
 
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no, he was fired for not doing what he was telling his students to do. to follow the scientific method, in everything they do. instead, he publishes a report about WTC buildings being Controlled demo, without DOING just that.\

he is a fraud.
 
no, he was fired for not doing what he was telling his students to do. to follow the scientific method, in everything they do. instead, he publishes a report about WTC buildings being Controlled demo, without DOING just that.
he is a fraud.
AZCat was talking about Kevin Ryan

You are referring to Stephen Jones.

Who are you to say he did not follow the scientific method?

Please point out where you think he did not follow the scientific method.
 
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*2 PhD's, Prof. of Physics for 20 years [at a very conservative University]
It doesn't get any more qualified than that!

I could find you two PhDs in biology who believe that the Earth is 6000 years old and people were manufactured out of clay. It wouldn't prove anything.

The unhappy fact you have to explain is that there are a vast number of nations and political entities who to varying degrees have an interest in the destruction of America.

To name a few: China, Iran, Syria, North Korea, Cuba, Venezuela, Al Qaeda, Hizbollah, The Taliban.

Any of them could commission their engineers to describe smoking gun evidence of a demolition, such as you allude to, in exhaustive detail.

You seem to believe that every US professional is in a conspiracy of silence, frightened for their lives or their careers. Can you really say the same about Al Qaeda or the Peoples Republics? They want to believe the US government were responsible, but they simply can't do it, plainly because it doesn't make sense. If they were afraid of repercussions, there's no difficulty doing it anonymously on the internet - besides which, if you honestly believe that the US army could retaliate against China while undergoing a revolution brought about by the revelation of one of the biggest crimes in history, you're not of this Earth. The silence is deafening. There is no evidence.
 
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UL would certainly test steel components that were representative of the ones that were to be used in the building.
Who said they did not test the steel components?

No, they didn't. Learn what the [rule10]ing difference between assemblies and components before making an ass of yourself. There's still time to admit you're wrong and save some face.


On Edit: Ryan was fired because he "expressed his own opinions as though they were institutional opinions and beliefs of UL." (Paul Baker, UL spokesman)
 
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No
Last year ya'all were demanding statements by experts.

Now that there are lots of qualified experts speaking out,
you imply that qualifications don't mean anything.

:boggled:

Actually Gage was around last year and only parrot's Jones and others who have all been there for quite some time. So who is new?


In matters of explosives we asked for explosives experts. You had Jowenko but he stands pretty much alone in his feild in saying that any CD was involved.

We asked for structural engineers and got Judy Woods who's hypotheses are plain ridiculous, a point you seem in agreement on. Others have put forth Reynolds as an expert. His expertise is in economics and how that applies to any of the collapses is a stretch to say the least.

Griffin? A theologian?

Ryan's expertise was in water quality and he was making pronouncements about steel.

The pilots at P4T cannot do simple physics. Some even require basic math corrections(I once had to point out that someone had calculated a desent rate and it was 60 times to high. Care to guess why?)

Fire experts who have studied the towers are for the greatest part, in agreement that the steel was weakened by heat enough to cause the collapse.

Yes qualifications mean something, we all know that. The qualifications should be in relevent areas which can certainly mean,for example, that despite having a degree in structural engineering it does not make you an expert in steel building construction if your course of work is in dental amalgams. It certainly does not make you an expert on secret directed energy weapons.

As a physicist, Jones is qualified* to say that the the laws of physics eliminate the only other possibility:
Trade Towers collapsed under their own weight in 12 to 14 seconds.

*2 PhD's, Prof. of Physics for 20 years [at a very conservative University]
It doesn't get any more qualified than that!

It makes him an expert in physics. He can then state that the building took approx 10-20% longer to collapse than a chunk of steel falling from the top would take. That's about it. Once he delves into how long it 'should' have taken he is in a feild of expertise for which he has not had any training.


Bazant however does have that training and Bazant claims that the towers would collapse once initial failure had taken place. Others with relevent expertise have shown that fire would suffice, after aircraft impacts, to have caused that initial failure.
When Jones delves into the chemistry of thermite in a forensic situation, he is in another feild other than physics.


Ryan wrote his letter in such a way as to make it appear that it was from UL and not a personal opinion of someone who just happened to work at UL in unrelated division.

If I wrote a letter to the CRTC (Canadian equivalent to the FCC) on my station's letterhead and complained that they had made an error, I'd be out looking for a job in an unrelated feild within 20 minutes of head office finding out. That fact is Ryan tried to pass himself off as greater than he was and must not have thought that through. Basically he lied. If Bush can be said to have lied about Iraq seeking 'yellow cake', then Ryan lied about his position in UL.
 
I could find you two PhDs in biology who believe that the Earth is 6000 years old and people were manufactured out of clay. It wouldn't prove anything.
S0 what?
If you are trying to sat Jones isn't qualified, it doesn't wash.

The unhappy fact you have to explain is that there are a vast number of nations and political entities who to varying degrees have an interest in the destruction of America.
To name a few: China, Iran, Syria, North Korea, Cuba, Venezuela, Al Qaeda, Hizbollah, The Taliban.
Any of them could commission their engineers to describe smoking gun evidence of a demolition, such as you allude to, in exhaustive detail.
Get serious.

You seem to believe that every US professional is in a conspiracy of silence, frightened for their lives or their careers.
I have had professionals tell me just that. Many are not aware of the facts.
We have no way of telling what most professionals think.
 
S0 what?
If you are trying to sat Jones isn't qualified, it doesn't wash.
hes not trying to say it, he IS saying it

on the subject of muon catalyzed cold fusion ill take jones's word over anyones, but when it comes to building collapses hes a little out of his area of expertise, understand?
 
I have had professionals tell me just that.
I don't believe you.

Many are not aware of the facts.
You mean, your 'facts'?
If you mean that you've actually spoken to structural engineers and that they are unaware of the NIST report I suggest you advise their governing body and, if you're feeling really devious, find out who provides their PI Insurance and let them know also.

We have no way of telling what most professionals think.

Yes we do. Professionals impacted by the implication of the wtc towers collapse are going to have something to say if they don't agree with the findings of NIST. They are not going to bother to say anything if they have no issue with the NIST findings.

Therefore, most professionals think the NIST report is fine.

Get over it.
 

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