With no offense, you are not a research specialist. This summer I was given information by a specialist (supposedly) who was in my home checking his specialty. I did not trust all his statements and excused myself when he finished his them and went b. My computer was on at the time, a bit over thirty seconds later I had proof that he was wrong (and, no, I went through a search engine - I did not already have anything on the topic up on the computer). If you are good at research and know your resources, it takes very little time to find out a lot of stuff - even personal if you do that a lot and use certain paid services.
Lisa Williams New show same Stichk
- Thread starter SRW
- Start date
-
- Tags
- lisa williams tv psychic
Lucy - welcome. We often find that what people remember isn't quite what was said at the time. Whenever transcripts or recordings are made available, it's possible to point to instances of cold reading (statements and clever questions that let a psychic make it seem like they already knew things). Most likely that is what happened with you, but with today's internet tools it's really not hard to turn up personal details - aka "hot" reading. Both tools make for a really convincing reading. Do some googling on the subject and try to remember what she actually said to you, and more importantly, how you responded. If you confirmed statements (even just yes/no) from which she went on to make more statements, she was basically pumping you for info in a subtle way.
What makes cold reading work is making the client rack their brains for a possible connection with what's being said. The trick is to make it seem specific, but actually have different ways in which it could be relavent. You can then narrow things down from there to something very specific, and any misses are either modified or put down to spirit communication failures (!).
Derren Brown's one magician who demonstrates the technique - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btP_vy5cQq4
What makes cold reading work is making the client rack their brains for a possible connection with what's being said. The trick is to make it seem specific, but actually have different ways in which it could be relavent. You can then narrow things down from there to something very specific, and any misses are either modified or put down to spirit communication failures (!).
Derren Brown's one magician who demonstrates the technique - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btP_vy5cQq4
SRW
Master Poster
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2001
- Messages
- 2,903
Hi and welcome to the Forum.
You said that when you went to see Lisa you were skeptical. Well you had good reason to be, after all her claim is extraordinarily uncommon, being able to see the future and talk to the dead. So in your skeptical state, prior to seeing her, you must have thought there were two possibilities:
A. She talks to dead people
B. She is a fraud who makes a living out of fooling people into believing she talks to dead people.
It is unfortunate that you found this thread after you had your session with Lisa. After all you are the person who(whom?) we are trying to reach. Had you read this thread prior to your session with Lisa you would not only been skeptical but would have had an understanding of what was going on.
Hopefully you will have a chance to read up a bit on cold/hot reading, and try to review you session given this new knowledge.
Good luck and do not be afraid to ask questions. You will find many people here more than willing to explain.
Drudgewire
Critical Doofus
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2006
- Messages
- 9,421
ExMinister
RSL Acolyte
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2007
- Messages
- 2,982
Er, a tin foil hat? To keep out the voices of the dead? Is there some woo quantum-type pseudo-physics explanation for this that I missed?
ExMinister
RSL Acolyte
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2007
- Messages
- 2,982
Lucy, just for the sake of curiosity, try making a list of how many statements Lisa made that were vague (could easily apply to lots of people) or simply wrong, versus how many were exactly correct. Out of those that were correct (and couldn't apply to pretty much anyone), check to see if you in any way may have given her information based on the wording of your question, your age or appearance, or your previous responses. I've gone back through past psychic readings I've had, and I find it interesting to note that we tend to not to notice the great number of statements they make that are not really true and focus on the occasional statement that seems accurate. When you really analyze the reading and look at the percentages, it's not nearly so impressive.
Last edited:
lucyhicks1980
New Blood
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2008
- Messages
- 12
hi yes i booked over the phone but only 20 mins before hand. her husband only took my first name and i paid in cash after the reading. she is very well known in the redditch area and anyone ive spoken too has always had to wait months to see her. i have no problems with sharing my reading. as im new to this forum stuff i have no idea how to upload it etc. so any help would be great
reasonmusic
New Blood
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2006
- Messages
- 11
Idiots.
Dear Lucy... I am sorry you have to put up with this kind of denial from guys like Big Les or Darren or whoever. I believe you. I really do. These fools are so bent on all of it being false, now they could never accept any of it being true without losing too much face! Ironic; they seem to have just as much of an industry going as they claim most "psychics" do.
I mean, who in the heck is going to find out on the web in 20 minutes that you put a picture like that in your Dad's coffin? And you have a CD of it, too?!!
What fools. My apologies. I am sick of this foundation forum anyway. It does nothing but tear down.
Convert your CD to mp3 in itunes and then it can be uploaded much easier. If you would like, I am an pro audio editor and I can split the tracks fro you, etc and get you online. Let me know --- I'll even let a "skeptic" help me for accountability. -A
Dear Lucy... I am sorry you have to put up with this kind of denial from guys like Big Les or Darren or whoever. I believe you. I really do. These fools are so bent on all of it being false, now they could never accept any of it being true without losing too much face! Ironic; they seem to have just as much of an industry going as they claim most "psychics" do.
I mean, who in the heck is going to find out on the web in 20 minutes that you put a picture like that in your Dad's coffin? And you have a CD of it, too?!!
What fools. My apologies. I am sick of this foundation forum anyway. It does nothing but tear down.
Convert your CD to mp3 in itunes and then it can be uploaded much easier. If you would like, I am an pro audio editor and I can split the tracks fro you, etc and get you online. Let me know --- I'll even let a "skeptic" help me for accountability. -A
schlitt
Graduate Poster
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2007
- Messages
- 1,081
Reasonmusic, I understand that it is hard to hear (or read as the case may be here) that a belief you want to be true is false. But try and leave emotion and desire out of it for a second.
Think about the circumstances which lead you to be here.
Before coming here, you had no idea about cold reading. Without the knowledge of how these frauds do there thing, how can you feel as if you were able to make a sound judgement? A magicians trick is pretty confusing until you realise how it was done.
So you are on the right track, trying to figure out how it is done.
Does it strike you as odd that most people who know spiritualist mediums are a frauds, have knowledge of cold reading techniques, and that most believers have no idea what cold reading is?
Most believers also have no idea that many people have dedicated their lives to finding out if psychic powers exist, and all of the respected studies show that psychic powers do not exist. (see Susan Blackmores work for an example)
psychic powers are a very appealing thing to believe in, and a lot of people are happy to believe, just out of desire alone. But there are those who want to see good evidence before they believe, and unfortunately there is not a shred of evidence for psychic powers. Every one of these types of people can be shown to be using cold reading techniques. If they really were psychic, they would not have to resort to these techniques, and skeptics would not be able to fault them.
When a person who is educated in cold reading watches someone like Lisa williams, it is immediately apparent what she is doing.
Unfortunately what most explanations of cold reading fail to give, is just how important human nature, desire, and the fallibility of memory are to cold reading.
A typical example might be something like this.
A middle aged woman is being read.
Fraud: "I am seeing the presence of an older male around you."
Client: "YES!"
Fraud: "This is someone who passed over suddenly."
Client: "YES, YES!"
Fraud: and he is telling me he was close to you.
Client: "Yes! My father died of a heart attack!"
Unfortunately what will happen when the client remembers the reading, or tells others about it, she will remember the fraud as saying:
"I see your father, who died of a heart attack standing behind you".
Which is not at all what she said originally, the client actually provded that information.
If people are un-educated in human behaviour, and cold reading techniques when it comes to these matters, they are incredibly easy to fool.
If you are really interested in finding out the truth, see if you can find a copy of the Derren Brown show "messiah", if you want to see an excellent example of cold reading. (much more accurate than Lisa Williams, yet Derren admits he is not psychic) And see if you can get your hands on a copy of Ian Rowlands book "The full facts book of cold reading".
Think about the circumstances which lead you to be here.
Before coming here, you had no idea about cold reading. Without the knowledge of how these frauds do there thing, how can you feel as if you were able to make a sound judgement? A magicians trick is pretty confusing until you realise how it was done.
So you are on the right track, trying to figure out how it is done.
Does it strike you as odd that most people who know spiritualist mediums are a frauds, have knowledge of cold reading techniques, and that most believers have no idea what cold reading is?
Most believers also have no idea that many people have dedicated their lives to finding out if psychic powers exist, and all of the respected studies show that psychic powers do not exist. (see Susan Blackmores work for an example)
psychic powers are a very appealing thing to believe in, and a lot of people are happy to believe, just out of desire alone. But there are those who want to see good evidence before they believe, and unfortunately there is not a shred of evidence for psychic powers. Every one of these types of people can be shown to be using cold reading techniques. If they really were psychic, they would not have to resort to these techniques, and skeptics would not be able to fault them.
When a person who is educated in cold reading watches someone like Lisa williams, it is immediately apparent what she is doing.
Unfortunately what most explanations of cold reading fail to give, is just how important human nature, desire, and the fallibility of memory are to cold reading.
A typical example might be something like this.
A middle aged woman is being read.
Fraud: "I am seeing the presence of an older male around you."
Client: "YES!"
Fraud: "This is someone who passed over suddenly."
Client: "YES, YES!"
Fraud: and he is telling me he was close to you.
Client: "Yes! My father died of a heart attack!"
Unfortunately what will happen when the client remembers the reading, or tells others about it, she will remember the fraud as saying:
"I see your father, who died of a heart attack standing behind you".
Which is not at all what she said originally, the client actually provded that information.
If people are un-educated in human behaviour, and cold reading techniques when it comes to these matters, they are incredibly easy to fool.
If you are really interested in finding out the truth, see if you can find a copy of the Derren Brown show "messiah", if you want to see an excellent example of cold reading. (much more accurate than Lisa Williams, yet Derren admits he is not psychic) And see if you can get your hands on a copy of Ian Rowlands book "The full facts book of cold reading".
Last edited:
lucyhicks1980
New Blood
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2008
- Messages
- 12
reasonmusic......thank you thats very kind. i completely agree with you. im certainly no longer a skeptic im a believer without a doubt. if you would like to hear the reading ill have ago at converting it. at the moment its just a windows media audio file.
Last edited:
lucyhicks1980
New Blood
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2008
- Messages
- 12
schlitt
can i just say at no point did i tell her about my dad she told me! i purposely didnt give anything away. and also at the time i was only 23 so you wouldnt really look at me and guess my dad had died.
can i just say at no point did i tell her about my dad she told me! i purposely didnt give anything away. and also at the time i was only 23 so you wouldnt really look at me and guess my dad had died.
schlitt
Graduate Poster
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2007
- Messages
- 1,081
Do you have a tape of the reading?
I would bet that she did not blatantly say "Your father died", before you provided some feedback, there was likely some "i am seeing a male figure, possibly a relative" type banter first.
You have to keep in mind that people doing these readings will have lost someone, middle aged men (the father of a 23 year old), have among the highest mortality rates.
If you are willing to share your reading, i would be more than happy to give you an analysis from a cold reading perspective. (not that i am an expert however)
Last edited:
lucyhicks1980
New Blood
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2008
- Messages
- 12
she told me he was there. i DIDNT even answer and she went on to talk about it. i think it would be far easier if i upload the reading, however i cant see any kind of upload tool on this website.
schlitt
Graduate Poster
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2007
- Messages
- 1,081
Well i cannot really comment without hearing the reading. There could be any number of things that were revealed to her, unwittingly before she said "your father is here", that you may not realise. It is unlikely she just straight away came out with that as the very first thing that was said. There are a number of outs, if she did boldly guess this, and it was untrue however, "he is here in spirit" etc, "his love is surrounding you" etc. It is however the most likely guess for a 23 Year old female (father/grandfather having died) keeping in mind that she already knows you have lost someone, hence why you are having a reading.
Examining the reading from a critical perspective is the only way to know for sure.
Last edited:
lucyhicks1980
New Blood
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2008
- Messages
- 12
it was the first thing she said. apart from hello take a seat! she turned the recording equipment on and came straight out with it. i didnt answer at all. i was very aware that some people are fakes so made sure i gave nothing away. its a shame that the fakes out there cloud the judgement of people. as soon as im able to upload the reading i will. its ready and waiting
schlitt
Graduate Poster
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2007
- Messages
- 1,081
OK, even if this was the first thing she said, without prior contact, this could have been for a number of reasons. as i said, she will always have outs, and it is also the most likely guess for a 23 year old female. here is why;
-You are there for a reading - this indicated you have lost someone.
-You are mid 20's - This means your parents are middle aged.
-People only tend to get reading when people who are close pass away. ( usually people will not go for a relative such as an uncles/aunt or a not so close friend, it is usually a parent or spouse, or close friend)
-Mortality rate is high for middle aged men (heart disease or cancer being the most likely), and it is likely you are having the reading for a father, as you may not bother for a grandfather, who you are less likely to be super close to.
if your description is correct, it is suprising she was so bold in the guess with no prior fishing, but not unheard of. And it is not suprising that she was correct, as this is the guess that most cold readers would make for a 23 year old female client, as it statistically has the best chance of being correct.
Tell me, have you educated yourself in cold reading techniques? were you aware of cold reading when you had the reading?
What was the exact wording that she used when she said it?
You may not have answered verbally, but there would have probably been very obvious clues as to your reaction.
Last edited:
Just to add to what schlitt is saying--all of which is correct, by the way:
One must consider several methods. It is the rare psychic indeed who relies on one method. (Sylvia Browne apparently relies on one; it's called the Make crap up on the spot, watch people fall for it, and pan away from the ones who don't method).
Cold reading is the one most discussed here, but is not the only one practiced. Nor does it rely simply on standard guesses. It is a practiced art that improves with practice and eventually evolves into warm reading which is really picking up on cues and clues that the sitter is unaware are present. Hot reading is the "looking up on the internet" type of cheating, and Lucyhicks' description of this experience does not rule it out. The hot reading need not occur solely before the reading starts. Psychics have assistants/accomplices who can do research while the sitter is with the medium and who can feed discovered information during the reading.
Did this happen with lucyhicks? I've no idea, but it must be positively ruled out to substantiate the claim that Lisa Williams is legitimate; it is not the burden of the skeptic to positively rule it in.
Another thing too often forgotten is the statistical game. By that I mean that Lisa could make up one or two or three incredible guesses for each sitter and be wrong on all of them without it counting against her. But if she happens to get lucky with one, that one is absolutely convinced and becomes a great PR tool.
This can't be overstated. Lisa Williams did not "read" Lucyhicks in a vacuum, with agreement beforehand that this would be the reading that counted towards determining her legitimacy. She performs hundreds or thousands of such readings, and we hear about those fortunate few who get the miraculous hit.
Before this gets dismissed as grasping for straws, find a few magician friends (the standard kind of magician--card tricks and such) and ask them for their one impossible performance. I've got one, and I rarely perform. I planned a card trick, handed the deck to the spectator, had him shuffle to his heart's content and deal the top four cards face down on the table. He turned them over. It was the four aces.
Ta da! Miracle trick. I ended it there and walked away. He was dumbfounded. I refuse, however, to repeat the trick. The reason is that I got lucky. That wasn't the trick; I planned on something much longer and far more mundane, but I'm smart enough to capitalize when it benefits me.
Ah, well. I've rambled too long.
Lucyhicks, you seem to be both sincere in your belief and honest in portraying what you remember as happening. Kudos to you.
I'll make a deal with you: I'll remain open to the possibility that your reading cannot be explained via normal means if you remain open to the possibility that it can.
One must consider several methods. It is the rare psychic indeed who relies on one method. (Sylvia Browne apparently relies on one; it's called the Make crap up on the spot, watch people fall for it, and pan away from the ones who don't method).
Cold reading is the one most discussed here, but is not the only one practiced. Nor does it rely simply on standard guesses. It is a practiced art that improves with practice and eventually evolves into warm reading which is really picking up on cues and clues that the sitter is unaware are present. Hot reading is the "looking up on the internet" type of cheating, and Lucyhicks' description of this experience does not rule it out. The hot reading need not occur solely before the reading starts. Psychics have assistants/accomplices who can do research while the sitter is with the medium and who can feed discovered information during the reading.
Did this happen with lucyhicks? I've no idea, but it must be positively ruled out to substantiate the claim that Lisa Williams is legitimate; it is not the burden of the skeptic to positively rule it in.
Another thing too often forgotten is the statistical game. By that I mean that Lisa could make up one or two or three incredible guesses for each sitter and be wrong on all of them without it counting against her. But if she happens to get lucky with one, that one is absolutely convinced and becomes a great PR tool.
This can't be overstated. Lisa Williams did not "read" Lucyhicks in a vacuum, with agreement beforehand that this would be the reading that counted towards determining her legitimacy. She performs hundreds or thousands of such readings, and we hear about those fortunate few who get the miraculous hit.
Before this gets dismissed as grasping for straws, find a few magician friends (the standard kind of magician--card tricks and such) and ask them for their one impossible performance. I've got one, and I rarely perform. I planned a card trick, handed the deck to the spectator, had him shuffle to his heart's content and deal the top four cards face down on the table. He turned them over. It was the four aces.
Ta da! Miracle trick. I ended it there and walked away. He was dumbfounded. I refuse, however, to repeat the trick. The reason is that I got lucky. That wasn't the trick; I planned on something much longer and far more mundane, but I'm smart enough to capitalize when it benefits me.
Ah, well. I've rambled too long.
Lucyhicks, you seem to be both sincere in your belief and honest in portraying what you remember as happening. Kudos to you.
I'll make a deal with you: I'll remain open to the possibility that your reading cannot be explained via normal means if you remain open to the possibility that it can.
lucyhicks1980
New Blood
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2008
- Messages
- 12
garrette.
can i just say lisa did my reading in her own home within 20 mins of me booking, she had no assistants working for her etc. no office nothing. there is no way she could have found on the internent that i put a picture of my dad and son in the coffin. im a very open minded person and i think its a shame that some people dont have the ability to believe the unexplained. i do however respect everybody has different beliefs and entitled to there own opinion, and would never critise them for doing so.
can i just say lisa did my reading in her own home within 20 mins of me booking, she had no assistants working for her etc. no office nothing. there is no way she could have found on the internent that i put a picture of my dad and son in the coffin. im a very open minded person and i think its a shame that some people dont have the ability to believe the unexplained. i do however respect everybody has different beliefs and entitled to there own opinion, and would never critise them for doing so.
Nursefoxfire
Graduate Poster
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2008
- Messages
- 1,275
double post
Last edited: