Lisa Williams New show same Stichk

[Nursefoxfire]

i am from a small town in england called redditch (lisa,s home town)

No one thus far has mentioned this pertinent bit of info, so I thought I'd throw it out there. It's quite possible that Lisa already knew quite a bit about Lucy and her family, especially coming from a small-town environment.

Even if Lisa no longer lived there, but had moved on to "the big city", I'm sure her family is there and could easily have filled her in on tragic events in the town ("Did you hear? Poor Lucy's dad passed away. He was so young, too! Bob down at the funeral home saw her crying as she tucked a photo of her dad and her son in the casket. Very touching...")

However, Lucy says that her trip over to Lisa's home took no more than 20 minutes, so my assumption is that Lisa was still residing locally, and probably knew a lot more about what was going on than Lucy gave her credit for.

 

[lucyhicks1980]

nursefoxfire...... thanks for your points, id just like to say that redditch has a population of approx 80,000 people. ( ww.birminghamuk.com/wikipedia/Redditch.html ) ive only ever come across a hand full of people that have heard of lisa williams as like i said it was before she made it big!. i can also think of at least 15 funeral directors in redditch let alone all the surrounding districts.

 

[lucyhicks1980]

nursefoxfire....... also can i just add that i never told anyone, not a single sole about the photo nor did anyone see me put it in his coffin. also it was in a sealed envelope.

 

[Nursefoxfire]

Lucy, your definition of "small town" and mine widely differ, then! Also, I wanted you to know I'm not trying to poke fun at you, and I'm terribly sorry about the loss of your father, especially with you being so young.

 

[lucyhicks1980]

nursefoxfire...... ive never been to america so i guess like you say my definition of a small town is different to yours, sorry for any confussion. thank you for those kind words. i think people could argue on this forum forever, over wether or not mediums are real or fake, or what does come next but none of us will really know the answer till its our time to pass over or away or whatever it is that happens.

 

[imagineNoReligion]

Just look at her commercial. At one point, she asks a guy, "Who's David?" and his jaw drops. So he's thinking, "Hey! She knew my father's/grandfather's/uncle's/whoever's name was David!"

No, she didn't--SHE ASKED YOU WHO DAVID WAS!!!

Same old cold reading crap.

Yeah, I haven't seen that particular clip, but I find it amazing that people who buy into this, don't realize that most of the questions asked by mediums, are directed to the audience and not to the spirits themselves. In fact, the spirit world doesn't really know very much at all. I mean, how exactly does this conversation with the spirit world go?

Spirit1: Well someone in the audience knows or has known someone who's name started with a "J"?

Medium: Um, can you tell me exactly who "J" is and how they are related?

Spirit1: Are you kidding? Do you think I'm psychic? Ask the audience.


(Yes, I know they are cold reading and not talking to spirits)

 

[schlitt]

im a very open minded person

How so? what exactly are you open to?
How much reading have you done on cold reading techniques?
Have much reading have you done on human memory?(e.g Elizabeth Loftus's works)
Are you aware of the fact that there has never been any type of plausible scientific explanation of how psychic powers would work?
Are you aware that there is no evidence for a soul or life after death, but plenty of evidence that our consciousness lies purely in our brain?

It seems to me you are closing your mind to all other explanations, and simply believing what you want. That is not open mindedness.

If you were really open minded you would try and research alternate explanations that scientists/skeptics/magicians etc give for this phenomenon.
You would learn cold reading, and research techniques that could explain what you lack knowledge about.

take a look at this:
http://www.skeptics.org.uk/article.php?dir=articles&article=the_open_mind.php

and i think its a shame that some people don't have the ability to believe the unexplained.

The thing is, seemingly accurate psychic readings are perfectly explainable. You just need to be open to learning information that might not be comforting to you.
No one is debating that you had a reading which seemed to be amazing. Fraudulent psychics can do a very good job of providing readings which seem accurate and psychic, if they didn't they would not continue to be around. The unfortunate thing is that the techniques by which they give these readings are not as you would hope. They are not really talking to the dead, they are using techniques which seem as though they are. Only once someone educates themselves in these techniques, will they be able to spot them.

 

[reasonmusic]

Do not read.

Man, you guys are just plain wacked! Schlitt (or whatever you are), I came here to see what the skeptics said about Lisa Williams, so I think I know what I am looking for. I was optimistic for this forum, but instead all I read is a bunch of judgmental angry and ignorant crap from people so insensitive to anyone who thinks differently than them, you would rather believe in a fake! So write her off all you will... whether she is real or not, she's sure a hell of a lot more interesting than you linear thinking "septics". I'm on the border. You guys are just as bad as who you claim is false.

And if you're that dead set on it, go prove her wrong then! Raise some funds (I'll pitch in!) and go see her yourself before you say you know her. Lucy did.

And don't forget your video camera or audio recorder, because NO ONE will believe you no matter what you say happened (sorry Lucy) unless you have proof other than your own experience.

Fools.

 

[schlitt]

Man, you guys are just plain wacked! Schlitt (or whatever you are), I came here to see what the skeptics said about Lisa Williams, so I think I know what I am looking for. I was optimistic for this forum, but instead all I read is a bunch of judgmental angry and ignorant crap from people so insensitive to anyone who thinks differently than them, you would rather believe in a fake! So write her off all you will... whether she is real or not, she's sure a hell of a lot more interesting than you linear thinking "septics". I'm on the border. You guys are just as bad as who you claim is false.

And if you're that dead set on it, go prove her wrong then! Raise some funds (I'll pitch in!) and go see her yourself before you say you know her. Lucy did.

And don't forget your video camera or audio recorder, because NO ONE will believe you no matter what you say happened (sorry Lucy) unless you have proof other than your own experience.

Fools.

Where has one of us displayed ignorance?

We have tried to provide you with advice as to how this type of trickery is acheived. You have ignored this advice.
What exactly were you expecting from us?

I have not been insulting or rude, the fact is you do not want to hear what skeptics are saying, which basically amounts to "there is an explanation for why people can do these types of readings, and often they are using cold reading".

If you do not want to research this, and prefer to believe because it satisfies your desire, that is fine.

And im afraid you have it the wrong way around though, as far as proving the claims. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. It is not up to a skeptic to prove someone claiming powers is a fraud, it is up to the claimant to prove they have powers.
If Lisa really is psychic, she could apply for the million dollar challenge, silence all skeptics, and change the world. I wonder why she does not.

Lucy has the chance to provide her reading, and if it is sufficiently amazing, then further investigation will be warranted for sure. However at this point in time many of us are well aware of Lisa Williams techniques from watching her show, and she is a text book cold reader. Until Lucy provides her evidence, can you really blame us for not taking her claims at face value?

The fact is that a good cold reader can fool absolutely anyone, if that person is not wise to their techniques. The key is learning their techniques, which requires time, effort and research that most people never invest in.

Calling us fools, how ironic considering your rant about how mean and horrible we all are. I think you will find that you have been the only person resorting to unfounded insults, which most people would consider foolish, or childish behaviour.

 

[lucyhicks1980]

schlitt.... like ive said im more than happy to up load my reading when i know how. as all i keep getting is an error message about different security states when i try.

 

[Garrette]

garrette.
can i just say lisa did my reading in her own home

As has been pointed out, you are from the same town. Even if she did not know you personally, it is not difficult in this day of pervasive technology to find someone who did.

I am not saying that this did happen. I am saying that--your protests not withstanding--you have not ruled it out. Until it is ruled out, you will find us continuing to raise the possibility. It is this, the raising of possible alternate explanations that defines skepticism and an open mind. It is not an insistence on one's own inability to be hoodwinked that does so.

within 20 mins of me booking,

How long do you think a phone call and an internet search take?

she had no assistants working for her etc.

You have no way of knowing this.

no office nothing.

No office? Where she met you and did the reading was her office. If she worked out of her home, her home was her office.

there is no way she could have found on the internent that i put a picture of my dad and son in the coffin.

The possibilities that need to be eliminated before we conclude legitimate psychic ability include, but are not limited to, the following:

1. You are misremembering (this will remain a possibility until we hear the recording)

2. She actually could have found this out (perhaps not on the internet but via other means) by a method you simply have not considered. Ever been fooled by a magic trick?

3. She cold read you

4. The statistical game, as I addressed in my first post. This one is key

5. You are lying (Note that I do not believe this one to be the case as you do seem to be sincere, but open mindedness requires me to consider the possibility)

im a very open minded person

Perhaps you are, but in relation to this particular topic you are not displaying the qualities associated with that characteristic.

and i think its a shame that some people dont have the ability to believe the unexplained.

How would you respond if I said "I think it's a shame that some people don't have the ability to understand the explanations offered and insist on their own infallibility?"

You assume quite a lot with this statement, lucy. You assume for one thing that none of us have ever believed. Many of us have. I for one was a very strong believer for a long time.

You also assume that this thing actually is unexplained, and you assume it based on a lack of the relevant information. If you care to spend some time here, you will learn a lot of that information. Perhaps after learning it you will retain your belief, but if you do at least it will be an informed belief instead of a blind one.

i do however respect everybody has different beliefs and entitled to there own opinion,

As do we. Pointing out where a belief or opinion might be incorrect is not the same as disrespecting it. Further, most folks here (not all by any means, and not even one person all the time--none of us are perfect) avoid "beliefs" as much as possible and prefer to base our conclusions on evidence. Reliable, tested, repeatable, verifiable evidence.

and would never critise them for doing so.

A nice ideal but one you have already violated. You have criticised us for "not having the ability" to believe and also for not being open minded. Not a problem. Most of us are thick skinned, and as criticisms go that's a mild one. Personally, I get a chuckle out of a well crafted and witty criticism, even when I'm the target. If the criticism happens to be correct, I shake off the slight bruise to my ego and try to learn from it.

 

[Garrette]

schlitt.... like ive said im more than happy to up load my reading when i know how. as all i keep getting is an error message about different security states when i try.

I wish I were technically savvy enough to help, but sadly I am not.

How about a transcript? It would take effort, and you would need to be careful to include the pauses and the uhs and umms and non-word utterances like small gasps, sighs, chuckles, etc.

 

[schlitt]

schlitt.... like ive said im more than happy to up load my reading when i know how. as all i keep getting is an error message about different security states when i try.

How big is the file? You could perhaps email it to us.

Can anyone reading help Lucy out with this?

 

[SRW]

I PM'ed her with my contact info. So I can help her Email it to me or if that does not work possibly Snail mail.

 

[Akhenaten]

I wish I were technically savvy enough to help, but sadly I am not.

How about a transcript? It would take effort, and you would need to be careful to include the pauses and the uhs and umms and non-word utterances like small gasps, sighs, chuckles, etc.

i don,t know how to say what i want to say about the transcript idea without being offensive but i really think it might end up being a bit difficult to read if you catch my drift .

 

[Garrette]

i don,t know how to say what i want to say about the transcript idea without being offensive but i really think it might end up being a bit difficult to read if you catch my drift .

I can guess, but I'm not sure I'm guessing correctly. No matter.

lucyhicks, I hope you haven't decided to abandon the topic. I think both sides could find it interesting and beneficial to discuss. If you are planning on returning to the thread (say, as soon as you find a way to upload the recording), please drop a quick post saying so.

Thanks.

 

[Lilith]

No one thus far has mentioned this pertinent bit of info, so I thought I'd throw it out there. It's quite possible that Lisa already knew quite a bit about Lucy and her family, especially coming from a small-town environment.

Even if Lisa no longer lived there, but had moved on to "the big city", I'm sure her family is there and could easily have filled her in on tragic events in the town ("Did you hear? Poor Lucy's dad passed away. He was so young, too! Bob down at the funeral home saw her crying as she tucked a photo of her dad and her son in the casket. Very touching...")

My first thought when I read that Lisa did this reading in her own (large) town was that she had knowledge of Lucy's father's death. How could this be? Well, considering she was making money as a psychic in the local community, she would be wise to cut out all obits and file them away - and when someone called for a reading, she could do a quick search in the files. And since women's names change with marriage, she would also be wise to have a cross-reference system set up. Clients who have had recent family deaths, in the past year or so, are the most likely to request a reading.

About the picture in the coffin? I would have to hear the reading or read the transcript, but cold readings can get to this info. It is not uncommon to place things in the coffin of loved ones. Lisa could have said something like "you placed something in the coffin that touched your father deeply" and even without a "yes" response, Lisa could see the eyes get watery. I'm not saying this happened, as I obviously wasn't present. Just saying that this is one scenario that could explain how Lisa "knew" about the picture. From there, Lisa might guess it was a picture, as this again is not uncommon.

I'm just saying - I had no problem imagining that Lisa used such tactics. It is sooooo convincing when you are the person a psychic is speaking to - emotions do strange things to the parts of the brain needed for critical thinking. Even people trained in critical thinking may have moments influenced by emotion that test their reasoning skills.

 

[Garrette]

My first thought when I read that Lisa did this reading in her own (large) town was that she had knowledge of Lucy's father's death. How could this be? Well, considering she was making money as a psychic in the local community, she would be wise to cut out all obits and file them away - and when someone called for a reading, she could do a quick search in the files. And since women's names change with marriage, she would also be wise to have a cross-reference system set up. Clients who have had recent family deaths, in the past year or so, are the most likely to request a reading.

About the picture in the coffin? I would have to hear the reading or read the transcript, but cold readings can get to this info. It is not uncommon to place things in the coffin of loved ones. Lisa could have said something like "you placed something in the coffin that touched your father deeply" and even without a "yes" response, Lisa could see the eyes get watery. I'm not saying this happened, as I obviously wasn't present. Just saying that this is one scenario that could explain how Lisa "knew" about the picture. From there, Lisa might guess it was a picture, as this again is not uncommon.

I'm just saying - I had no problem imagining that Lisa used such tactics. It is sooooo convincing when you are the person a psychic is speaking to - emotions do strange things to the parts of the brain needed for critical thinking. Even people trained in critical thinking may have moments influenced by emotion that test their reasoning skills.

You are exactly right. We cannot say with certainty that this did occur, but we can say with certainty that it could have occured and that it is more plausible than actual psychic ability which inexplicably is undemonstrable under controlled conditions. One would also be wise to read up on Lamar Keene's The Psychic Mafia for a surprising look into the networking and cooperation common amongst charlatans of this sort.

I truly hope lucyhicks comes back, but it would not surprise me if she does not. Speaking as one who has gone through it, it is an exceptionally difficult thing to willingly go where precious beliefs will likely crumble; it is far easier to go where the scrutiny is superficial and the enabling is powerful.

 

[Nursefoxfire]

I truly hope lucyhicks comes back, but it would not surprise me if she does not. Speaking as one who has gone through it, it is an exceptionally difficult thing to willingly go where precious beliefs will likely crumble; it is far easier to go where the scrutiny is superficial and the enabling is powerful.

We tend to shy away from things that "hurt" us, be they physical or emotional, so it's understandable that lucy may not return to this thread (or forum).

After being raised in a strict Fundy Christian household for so many years, I still have a hard time shaking off some of the lingering beliefs I had, even in the face of reality. And I know my extended family, who are all universally deeply religious (some Mormons, a few Baptists, some Worldwide Church of God) find great comfort in clinging to the idea that there is a benevolent Being up there who'll take care of everything, if only we follow a few simple steps. Even moreso now, with my BIL recently being diagnosed with inoperable brain cancer.

 

[SRW]

We tend to shy away from things that "hurt" us, be they physical or emotional, so it's understandable that lucy may not return to this thread (or forum).

I sent her my contact info four days ago and not a peep. I guess she has decided we are just a bunch of hateful cynics and not worth her time.