The case against Dr. Paul

Evidence? Or do you suggest that private gold possession be made illegal again to stabilize the price as was done before?

Evidence? When the US was on a gold standard, wheat always cost like $.02 a bushel, for 100+ years. Just look at prices historically.

Your point about the silver certificates is irrelevant. The US was in the process of removing all backing from currency. But in a gold backed currency, the government is expected to hold physical gold for every note issued. It's not like they would need to go buy the gold on the open market. Basically with gold backed currency, you're using gold as money. Only instead of passing gold around you pass paper. The paper can be exchanged for gold by the government.

Over time people don't bother claiming their gold. They trust the paper. Then over time people forget the paper was even related to gold. Then over time the government quietly just removes the backing of paper with gold. Then over time the government starts buying votes through printing more money. Then over time the system falls apart. Then some people remember what gold backing was all about. Sure, the gold bug nutcases which everyone laughs at. But once every generation or two they get the last laugh.

-Dave
 
And it's even more enlightening that all those companies peddling gold and silver are more than happy to part with their gold and silver for "worthless" Federal Reserve Notes...

That's how a broker makes money. They take a cut of every transaction, whether people are buying or selling. As long as trade is going on, they're happy.

There is always a spread on their prices. If you're selling, they'll pay you less than if you're buying, for the exact same item.

-Dave
 
And in the kind of economic meltdown dash and his buddies are prediciting, I think investments in Canned Goods, MRE's ,Guns and Ammo would be a lot more useful then Precious metals. You can't Shoot or Eat them.
Call it the Brains Gremlin strategy. If you really beleive an economic Armageddon lies around the corner, that is the way to go.
Yes, I think the US is in for a tough year or so economically. We are in a recession. But I don't see the kind of collapse that dash is looking forward to.

Personally I have a lot of food stored, enough for many months. That's just to cover short term shortages if things get really bad. My family won't starve.

I don't expect massive starvation. But there might be food lines...and the price of food will continue going up.

It's all part of preparedness. Don't neglect your financial situation. I even have a stash of paper currency to use in a pinch, in case there are serious problems with banking and you need folding money to buy stuff. Think about it.

-Dave
 
Personally I have a lot of food stored, enough for many months. That's just to cover short term shortages if things get really bad. My family won't starve.

I don't expect massive starvation. But there might be food lines...and the price of food will continue going up.

It's all part of preparedness. Don't neglect your financial situation. I even have a stash of paper currency to use in a pinch, in case there are serious problems with banking and you need folding money to buy stuff. Think about it.

-Dave

What about weaponry? How many and what type of guns, ammo, etc?
 
Smart investors get in and out on the peaks and valleys. Dash, if you'd bought silver at $11 in early '07, then getting out ten days ago at $21 would've been lucrative.

But you were recommending buying at just under $20. That's a little irresponsible since you obviously don't know as much about the subject as you like to to suggest you do. If you haven't sold and are now buying more to average out your net position, then you better be prepared to ride it for a while. The world spot price market opens in about 39 hours. It was at 17 point something but that was before NY closed about 0.50 under that, so in all likelihood, the world spot price will likely take a further downwards turn on Monday (00:01 my time here in Hkg - well before the NY market opens).

Will NY follow Asia downwards? I'm guessing it will. (I admit I'm guessing.) There's always a possibility that buyers will jump in on the NY price, if they think it's a decent low, but there's an equally strong possibility that the Asians will sell fearing a further downward spiral when New York and London open, later. If silver goes down around fifteen bucks, then even investment at $11 last year isn't such a hot return, and very few people bought in at that mark - most have been buying in over the past four/five weeks, so there are a lot of little losers out there if they followed the self-interest promoting bloggers.
 
Smart investors get in and out on the peaks and valleys. Dash, if you'd bought silver at $11 in early '07, then getting out ten days ago at $21 would've been lucrative.

But you were recommending buying at just under $20. That's a little irresponsible since you obviously don't know as much about the subject as you like to to suggest you do.

I follow Ted Butler's advice, which is to buy silver and hold it long, long, long. I don't try to ride the short term ups and downs. I've bought a lot with my own money. I've invested in silver in my kids' trust funds (in part). They'll inherit in like 12 years. In that timescale the ups and downs are irrelevant.

Short term runups are why there is a term "overbought". It's people jumping in to make a quick buck. Some do. But then the same people panic and the price drops down. The long, steady runup in price is due to people like me who are in this long term. The short term rises are exciting, but we weren't going to sell anyway.

Personally I'd rather hold silver than fiat currency long term anyway. Silver, to me, is more "money" than paper. YMMV.

One of these runups is going to be the big one. That's where the COMEX explodes and there are massive defaults because entities have sold silver short that they don't have and can't get. Meanwhile industrial users of silver need their silver, so the price must rise. We're running out of the stuff. It's at bottom level a supply and demand situation. On top of that is blatant price manipulation. And mixed in are speculators.

It's a rollercoaster, that's for sure. I'm by no means an expert. But I've learned enough to feel comfortable investing a substantial portion of the money I control in silver. A lot of people get burned in the silver market -- a lot of those work in the futures. That's basically akin to going to Las Vegas. You'll have ups, but if you look overall you're almost always down. The house almost always wins. And if you keep coming back, they always win.

Realistically for me investing in silver represents a bet against the US economy and the Fed. I don't think they have a clue about how serious the problems are, nor will they be able to fix them without killing the dollar.

-Dave
 
That's how a broker makes money. They take a cut of every transaction, whether people are buying or selling. As long as trade is going on, they're happy.

There is always a spread on their prices. If you're selling, they'll pay you less than if you're buying, for the exact same item.

-Dave
You've completely ignored the fact that people are willing to part with their gold and silver for "worthless" Federal Reserve Notes. Otherwise, you couldn't buy it. The brokers feed your paranoia, they need easy marks like you to stay in business.
 
You've completely ignored the fact that people are willing to part with their gold and silver for "worthless" Federal Reserve Notes. Otherwise, you couldn't buy it. The brokers feed your paranoia, they need easy marks like you to stay in business.

WildCat you need to get out more. You're imposing black/white thinking on the situation. Paper money isn't worthless as long as people are willing to exchange real goods and services for it. But as time goes on, it's worth less and less. That's because the Fed keeps pumping money into the system. It's not a finite amount of dollars in circulation. The amount is always increasing. So prices continue to rise, despite increasing productivity due to technological progress.

When the printing and paper games get out of hand, that's when precious metals come into their own. So people start buying it.

Dealers in PM's make their money by the transactions. You're not necessarily buying silver that they've hoarded for years and years. Other people who have held silver for some amount of time go to the dealers and sell, for whatever reason. Maybe they like how the price has risen and they want to take profits. Maybe they need the money. So they sell, the dealer gives them cash. Someone else shows up wanting to buy silver. So the dealer sells. They make profit from the spread. In a rising market, they make more profit -- the longer they hold the metal, the more profit. In a falling market, they make less profit -- it's better for them to not hold metal in a falling market.

But in both markets, their business model is to be the dealer. They make more money by being a silver exchange than if they just held silver. They make money year in, year out, no matter what happens to the silver price. They want to be in business for a long time.

Investors hold silver for other reasons. You simply can't compare dealers with investors. Dealers are not investors. They're dealers.

If you study the silver situation, I think you'll come to the conclusion that the silver price will continue rising. It's the conclusion I came to, anyway. But in that study you'd be exposed to a lot of ugly details about how money works in the US, the Federal Reserve banking system, and just exactly what wealth is. Right now I feel a lot safer holding physical silver than stacks of dollar bills. That's all it boils down to. Silver's an investment. Dollar bills are an investment also. Ideally you try to put your wealth in whatever place will grow the fastest.

WildCat this situation is kind of like those images made of dots, where you look at it and you can't see the image. So you have to kind of cross your eyes, defocus a bit, look at it a different way -- then suddenly the image pops out at you. To really understand this stuff you need to sort of relax your mental barriers or something. I see you asking the same things, or bringing up the same points again and again, like your focus on the gold backed currency conundrum. You're arguing based on ignorance. You need to first understand the whole situation, then you can be taken seriously if you wish to argue against the viewpoint. You'd have to come up with an alternate explanation.

It's not good enough to claim, "99% of economists think X, therefore they must be right." The truth is not subject to the opinion of the majority. The truth is the truth. Sometimes the great majority is wrong -- for a while.

-Dave
 
All I can say is that dash's comments remind me of a book I read a little bit. It was written by Douglas R. Casey, entitled Crisis Investing — Opportunities and Profits in the Coming Great Depression. Many of the scenarios discussed and investment strategies suggested sound very much like what dash has posted previously.

The book, incidentally, was published almost thirty years ago.

It seems it's not just the business cycle that repeats itself...
 
All I can say is that dash's comments remind me of a book I read a little bit. It was written by Douglas R. Casey, entitled Crisis Investing — Opportunities and Profits in the Coming Great Depression. Many of the scenarios discussed and investment strategies suggested sound very much like what dash has posted previously.

The book, incidentally, was published almost thirty years ago.

It seems it's not just the business cycle that repeats itself...

Interesting. So, you're basically saying that because some book existed 30 years ago, and the book predicted a Great Depression in the 1980's, and that book was wrong, therefore we will never have another Great Depression? Our economy is immune from catastrophic failure?

-Dave
 
Interesting. So, you're basically saying that because some book existed 30 years ago, and the book predicted a Great Depression in the 1980's, and that book was wrong, therefore we will never have another Great Depression? Our economy is immune from catastrophic failure?

-Dave

If he had actually said that, that would have been pretty dumb. Since he has, in fact, NOT said that, I recommend that you practice your reading comprehension.
 
If he had actually said that, that would have been pretty dumb. Since he has, in fact, NOT said that, I recommend that you practice your reading comprehension.

Really. So what exactly was his point? Please, share with us your enlightened interpretation.

You know d***ed well I interpreted his meaning exactly. Why even bother posting?

Let's look at the situation another way. Suppose there was another impending Great Depression in the 1980's. If the US didn't shift its course, things were going to go bad. So a fellow writes a book talking about the coming disaster. And as a result of the book, a lot of people are able to make money through shrewd investing -- and at the same time it calls attention to the problems.

So enough people become aware of the crisis, and then there is pressure to avert the crisis. So substantive change is made, and the 2nd Great Depression is avoided.

So was the book a wrong? It predicted doom that didn't occur. But who knows? Maybe if the book hadn't been written the doom would have occured. You just don't know. All what-if scenarios are hypothetical.

The equivalent book for this generation appears to be "Crash Proof: How to profit during the coming economic collapse" by Peter Schiff. It is both a guidebook and a warning. Will the West avert disaster?

We're all living in exciting times. How history plays itself out here is certainly great entertainment.

On a related note, recently I saw some article about in some vacant land in Los Angeles shanty towns are springing up. People park motor homes there and squat, people build makeshift homes out of whatever they can scrounge. In the 1930's I think they called these places "Hoovervilles". They're all over in Latin America. That might be the coming thing in the US. If you get evicted, where do you go?

-Dave
 
Interesting. So, you're basically saying that because some book existed 30 years ago, and the book predicted a Great Depression in the 1980's, and that book was wrong, therefore we will never have another Great Depression? Our economy is immune from catastrophic failure?
No, I'm saying you are saying the same basic things which were said thirty years and which were demonstrated then to be baseless. Why should such prognostications be given any more credence now when the track record is not particularly accurate?

What gives you this special insight which apparently almost no one else, not even trained and experienced economists, has?
 
All I can say is that dash's comments remind me of a book I read a little bit. It was written by Douglas R. Casey, entitled Crisis Investing — Opportunities and Profits in the Coming Great Depression. Many of the scenarios discussed and investment strategies suggested sound very much like what dash has posted previously.

The book, incidentally, was published almost thirty years ago.

It seems it's not just the business cycle that repeats itself...

Every time the economy takes a downward turn, the doomsday books come out.
What disturbs me is that some people seems to WANT a Economic Disaster to happen,so they can make money off it.
 
Every time the economy takes a downward turn, the doomsday books come out.
What disturbs me is that some people seems to WANT a Economic Disaster to happen,so they can make money off it.


I would like to see a major shift in foreign politics. If it happens the hard way via a financial burn-out like in the case of russia, well - so be it.
 
What gives you this special insight which apparently almost no one else, not even trained and experienced economists, has?

Absolutely nothing, nothing at all...except, of course, that I'm able to use my brain, all by myself, and form my own opinions. I don't need them spoon fed to me by "experts". What do the words, "Question authority" mean to you?

I don't blindly trust anyone. You seem to. Good luck with that!

-Dave
 
What disturbs me is that some people seems to WANT a Economic Disaster to happen,so they can make money off it.

Would it disturb you to find out, say, that there are people in business and in government that WANT, say, I don't know, maybe WAR, because they make money off it?

Stop looking at the world through a child's eyes. You're a grownup now, or didn't you realize it? Wake up to how the world really operates.

And we don't want Economic Disaster to happen so we can make money off it. We want it to happen because the debt based, corrupt economy is sick and needs to collapse in order for something better to come about. Profiting is merely incidental.

-Dave
 

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