The case against Dr. Paul

[Corsair 115]

So is today like 1980, or is today like 1973? I say we're like 1973. The gold/silver run has only just begun. And in fact we've got 20 years (1980-2000) to make up for.

Unless you can substantiate that with hard data, it's just opinion, and no more worthy of trust that the opinion of those who bought gold in 1980-81 thinking the price climb could only keep going and going.

 

[Chaos]

$924.10 after bottoming out at $914 or so. There is so much market manipulation going on it's ridiculous.

Here's an interesting take on the subject -- the gist being the market would be providing signals to investors so they'd know where to invest, but the PPT is busy doing their best to cloud the issues...

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article4069.html



-Dave

Oh, so gold is going up-down-up-down-up-down and so on? And all that, after some whackjob on the internet - much more reliable than people who actually have a clue about economics, according to you - kept telling us here that gold and silver could only go up-up-up-up-up-up forever.

Weird.

 

[Oliver]

Oh, so gold is going up-down-up-down-up-down and so on? And all that, after some whackjob on the internet - much more reliable than people who actually have a clue about economics, according to you - kept telling us here that gold and silver could only go up-up-up-up-up-up forever.

Weird.

That's not the point - nor is it factual. The point is that Goldprices are much more stable because the very nature of precious metals: They don't "grow on trees".

Paper does!

 

[OneShotKi11]

How does that answer the question? A dollar backed by gold would still be worth a dollar, no matter what happens to the price of gold.

I believe though if the price of Gold goes up then more dollars can be made backed by gold. Then in the very very distant future when gold prices have risen enough there will also be enough dollars that are backed by gold (Hopefully) to be able to get rid of our fiat system.

 

[OneShotKi11]

Can someone please in list form tell me what would count as "Precious Metals"?

I want to know exactly what money can be backed by if we went to this standard.

 

[dash]

Oh, so gold is going up-down-up-down-up-down and so on? And all that, after some whackjob on the internet - much more reliable than people who actually have a clue about economics, according to you - kept telling us here that gold and silver could only go up-up-up-up-up-up forever.
.

Have you any experience investing? Nothing goes up, up, up only. We're speaking on different timescales. Short term there is always volatility -- up, down, up, down. I'm speaking long term. Gold + silver are up, up and away for the foreseeable future. When it rises quickly, it falls back quickly. But the bullish trend remains intact.

-Dave

 

[WildCat]

I believe though if the price of Gold goes up then more dollars can be made backed by gold. Then in the very very distant future when gold prices have risen enough there will also be enough dollars that are backed by gold (Hopefully) to be able to get rid of our fiat system.

What happenes when the price goes down 10% in 3 days, like happened this week?

And you really expect gold to be worth $40,000/oz some day?

 

[dash]

And you really expect gold to be worth $40,000/oz some day?

In order for gold to be worth $40,000/ounce it wouldn't be gold going up, but the dollar going down. Meaning the dollar becomes worthless.

Do I really think that will happen? No. The dollar will lose a lot of its value, but it won't go that low. People will lynch the Federal Reserve before that happens.

Interesting note, on another forum I frequent there are lots of reports of silver/bullion/coin dealers actually running out of physical silver. People are buying it up frantically and it's getting harder to come by. And in the midst of this...the spot price goes down! Clear case of market manipulation. It might be the last gasp of the system...I hope so anyway.

I'm not selling my physical silver anyway, the ups are nice but nothing matters until I go to sell. That'll be years and years away.

Actually if you haven't bought silver, now is a good time. It's around $16.50, from being up over $21. It'll come back. Consider this a gift! I recently bought from www.golddealer.com and am satisfied. 1 oz silver eagle coins plus 100 ounce bars. They probably still have inventory.

-Dave

 

[WildCat]

What happenes when the price goes down 10% in 3 days, like happened this week?

Any anti-Fed, pro-gold standard supporters want to explain what happenes to all the gold-backed currency when the price of gold plummets?

 

[WildCat]

Interesting note, on another forum I frequent there are lots of reports of silver/bullion/coin dealers actually running out of physical silver. People are buying it up frantically and it's getting harder to come by. And in the midst of this...the spot price goes down! Clear case of market manipulation. It might be the last gasp of the system...I hope so anyway.

Just because some brokers run out doesn't mean that the overall supply isn't in a glut.

Actually if you haven't bought silver, now is a good time.

I think I'll pass.

 

[Suddenly]

Interesting note, on another forum I frequent there are lots of reports of silver/bullion/coin dealers actually running out of physical silver. People are buying it up frantically and it's getting harder to come by. And in the midst of this...the spot price goes down! Clear case of market manipulation.

...or maybe just the market, smart people with gold selling it to foolish people who are convinced that since everyone that thinks like them is buying that the price dropping is somehow a conspiracy.

Like I said, the greater fool theory in action...

"Call this number and learn about the great opportunity buying gold presents..."

 

[dash]

Like I said, the greater fool theory in action...

You must be right.

 

[dash]

Any anti-Fed, pro-gold standard supporters want to explain what happenes to all the gold-backed currency when the price of gold plummets?

When paper money is backed by gold, you can redeem the paper for gold. So paper is gold, for all intents and purposes.

So your question really is, "What happens if prices suddenly rise?". The answer is, people buy less stuff I guess.

If gold were money again, it would not rise and fall as quickly as it can today. It wouldn't be as subject to market manipulation as it is today. Currently the gold market is very small. A few billion dollars can move gold's price quite a bit, and a few billion is nothing -- to governments that can print as much money as they like.

-Dave

 

[WildCat]

When paper money is backed by gold, you can redeem the paper for gold. So paper is gold, for all intents and purposes.

Except when paper money was backed by gold or other precious metal the paper money would be physically destroyed once it was turned in for exchange. To make this work with Silver Certificates, for example, the government fixed the price for silver. And when the market price for silver was out of sync with the government's price, there were problems. This is why the Kennedy Administration and Congress got rid of Silver Certificates in the early 1960's. Another problem is if people keep exchanging notes for gold/silver, there are less notes to go around.

So your question really is, "What happens if prices suddenly rise?".

No, it's not.

If gold were money again, it would not rise and fall as quickly as it can today.

Evidence? Or do you suggest that private gold possession be made illegal again to stabilize the price as was done before?

 

[dudalb]

Funny how most the "economist" pushing the doomsday scenario for the US economy have businesses selling the investment equvilent of survivalist equipment.

 

[dudalb]

Oliver, did you know that the Euro is also a fiat currency? When will you start making threads demanding the Euro be backed by gold? Do you actually have a clue about anyting? And yes, Ron Paul is a nut.

But in Oliver's world different economic laws apply to the US and Europe.
And I wish Oliver would tell us which of Paul's economic policies he wants Germany to adapt.

 

[WildCat]

Funny how most the "economist" pushing the doomsday scenario for the US economy have businesses selling the investment equvilent of survivalist equipment.

And it's even more enlightening that all those companies peddling gold and silver are more than happy to part with their gold and silver for "worthless" Federal Reserve Notes...

 

[dudalb]

And it's even more enlightening that all those companies peddling gold and silver are more than happy to part with their gold and silver for "worthless" Federal Reserve Notes...

And in the kind of economic meltdown dash and his buddies are prediciting, I think investments in Canned Goods, MRE's ,Guns and Ammo would be a lot more useful then Precious metals. You can't Shoot or Eat them.
Call it the Brains Gremlin strategy. If you really beleive an economic Armageddon lies around the corner, that is the way to go.
Yes, I think the US is in for a tough year or so economically. We are in a recession. But I don't see the kind of collapse that dash is looking forward to.

 

[Darth Rotor]

Then the US isn't an empire.

Wildcat, if one analyzes the rise of America from 1898 to 1945, you see the tell tale markings of a nation growing into empire. By an unemotional measure, yes, the US took on the nature of an Empire, or as Meade calls it, a hegemon (the differences are slight) and demonstrated a character different from empires run by emperor/empresses from a continuing blood line.

Consider this: when the US spread from coast to coast, it was larger than any contiguous empire other than the Czar's, and possibly the Chinese empire, by the turn of the century. That it wasn't ruled by a royal family is a slight difference. At the time, it was dwarfed in pure square mileage by the British Empire, due to that latters possessions in India and Africa, but by the time WW II was over, America had replaced the Brits as the maritime and commercial hegemon who bestrode the globe.

Of course, the charge of "empire" is made in a variety of contexts, few of which are unemotional.

DR

 

[WildCat]

Of course, the charge of "empire" is made in a variety of contexts, few of which are unemotional.

Dictionaries are about as unemotional as you can get, and I have yet to see a real definition of "empire" in which the US qualifies.

What dictionary are you using?