Bigfoot - The Patterson-Gimlin Film

[manofthesea]

"Meldrum" Is this the same Meldrum that ran inside the cabin on Monster Quest when his hairy Bigfoot threw a rock at the cabin? It seems if he has dedicated his life to finding Bigfoot. You would think he would have ran towards the direction that the rock came from. Surely he would give his life to prove this Monster exsist. No, instead he runs inside the cabin giggling like a girl scout at a weenie roast.
What do I know!

Maybe he doesn't buy into the romanticized version of bigfoot. Could be the historical "giant, man stealing" type. Read the Native American Myth thread. I think it's fallen to page 3 or something.

 

[crZmanOnLoose]

I made an observation, and asked a simple question (didn't see the whole episode). Am I missing something?

I wouldnt waste your time watching the Monster Quest episode. Just more of the same old Bigfoot HOOIE. I just dont believe any thing Meldrum has to say. I know they say he's a Pro and all but I just cant take him seriously.

 

[clayflingythingy]

LTC,

While the different versions of events given by RP/BG are interesting, I think most bigfoot supporters will see nothing damning in the differing accounts.

Bigfoot believers could point to the differing accounts given by GWB about how/who informed him of the attack on the WTC in that classroom as evidence that memory of even significant events is faulty. 9/11 truthers used GWB's differing accounts as evidence of a conspiracy.

Believers could even use the changing accounts as further "proof" PGF is of a real BF. After all, if the film was a hoax RP/BG would have memorized a story and stuck to it!

MOTS,

My memory (perhaps faulty) is Monsterquest showed the nail board leaning against a wall fully exposed to the elements. Does Monsterquest explicitly state the conditions under which the nail board was stored for two years?

 

[manofthesea]

MOTS,

My memory (perhaps faulty) is Monsterquest showed the nail board leaning against a wall fully exposed to the elements. Does Monsterquest explicitly state the conditions under which the nail board was stored for two years?

Now, how in the world could anything step on a board that's leaning against a wall?

 

[clayflingythingy]

Now, how in the world could anything step on a board that's leaning against a wall?

Are you implying the cabin was unused for two full years? MQ stated the nailboard was two years old. I do not remember any statements that the cabin had been left unvisited for two years. My impression was the owner of the cabin pitched the nailboard aside and went about the business of using his cabin.

 

[manofthesea]

Are you implying the cabin was unused for two full years? MQ stated the nailboard was two years old. I do not remember any statements that the cabin had been left unvisited for two years. My impression was the owner of the cabin pitched the nailboard aside and went about the business of using his cabin.

Does this make sense to you? What cabin operator would 'toss a nail board' aside? Nailboards are fixed in place. Maybe you mean he put it aside on the porch.

 

[Skeptical Greg]

Or the classification of the footprints?

I's baloney..

Absolutely no peer concensus ..

 

[Blackdog]

The board was on a covered porch. The amount of blood would have resisted total decay for two years while protected from the elements. Blood naturally coalesces, providing a protective layer. (The only proven method to destroy blood is bleach)

The first expert apparently was unable to create a primer, or unable to even find a reason for the non readability of the sample.

In the ensuing time, he (Dr. Meldrum) seems to have been able to have bigfoot's footprint officially classified, Anthroidipes Ameriborealis.

I take it you didn't watch the show. There is no evidence whatsoever that the board was stored on a covered porch. In fact when the owner was shown retrieving the board it was leaning vertically against an outside uncovered wall exposed to the elements.

Also did you pay attention to how Meldrum and Nelson sketched what they thought represented the print on the board? It was a heel stepping off the board. Here is a sketch I did a while back. It doesn't look like a bipedal animal with huge feet could have stepped on the board. I posted that at BFF and no one disputed my interpretation.

 

[clayflingythingy]

MOTS,

I just wasted 9:33 minutes of my life thanx to you. Go to youtube and look for Monsterquest Sasquatch Attack part 1 of 5 posted by RetardRyan. (I am new so can't post links.)

At 8:33 you will see the screwboard (not "nailboard") clearly leaning against the cabin wall fully exposed to the elements. The cabin owner demonstrated how he placed it on the porch every time he left the cabin.

So the screwboard was exposed some of the time directly to the elements. The porch would also have exposed the screwboard to the elements in a blowing rain or snow.

 

[GT/CS]

Does this make sense to you? What cabin operator would 'toss a nail board' aside? Nailboards are fixed in place. Maybe you mean he put it aside on the porch.

Ah, my good friend MOTS. MOTS, MOTS, MOTS, you've been on ignore so long I had forgotten about you.

In the program they show the board on its side propped against what looks like a trailer or a shed, in the direct sunlight, exposed to weather.

Back on ignore with you.

ETA - Clay is a faster typer

 

[William Parcher]

We already have a thread for Meldrum finding DNA on the screwboard. Please use that thread for this discussion. Please keep this thread about the PGF (whenever possible).

Mangler, I'm happy to see you back. We have much to discuss about the Titmus/Krantz map and the film details. Thanks for your recent attached images.

 

[Aepervius]

The board was on a covered porch. The amount of blood would have resisted total decay for two years while protected from the elements. Blood naturally coalesces, providing a protective layer. (The only proven method to destroy blood is bleach)

The first expert apparently was unable to create a primer, or unable to even find a reason for the non readability of the sample.

In the ensuing time, he (Dr. Meldrum) seems to have been able to have bigfoot's footprint officially classified, Anthroidipes Ameriborealis.

Really, that proves why blood underground or anywhere not under rain / wind stay forever without being degraded... And even better resist in oxygen rich environment to cold - hot cycle. Like under a porch.

MOS, where should i start laughing ? Blood left drying under a unprotected place will degrade with time, for many different reason non bleach related (bacterial attack for example). In a really protected place, like a home inside the fiber of a carpet, it can stays for years, but even there it will degrade to the point that part of the DNA will not be readable anymore. As a rule all biological material sooner or later degrade (and blood is not that rich in DNA anyway to start with, IIRC my biology us mammalian don't have DNA in our red cell). But on a NAIL outside, through winter and summer name me Thomas the doubter. And even if I was giving you in that some blood was left, it does not explain why a mega-special-uper-duper new method was needed to show blood presence, methoid which by the way was not peer reviewed.

 

[Blackdog]

WP,

I don’t have much time to explain right now but like you I have always had problems with the Titmus map. Below are four frames as I see them, this is the third time I have tried this map thing and I’m still not sure I have it right. The major problem I have always had is getting the camera to the right position after it was shut down then turned back on. I think I have finally found what I was looking for.

Look at the arrows on frames 1 and 184, see those two branches? I am reasonably certain that frame 195 lines up good with frames 1 and 184 but from a different angle, I always had problems with those two branches, I couldn’t figure out where they went in frame 195. Then after the millionth time looking at the frames I finely noticed that there was another tree behind tree number 7, I figured the branches must be behind tree 7 but in front of tree 6 and out of view in frame 195. Now every frame lines up pretty good, not just the four frames I show on this map, but every frame. FYI, the frame numbers are not set in stone.

This map is based on a 1974 topo map of where I believe the film site is located. I am still tweaking it but thought I’d throw it out here to get opinions. I may be totally off but to me it makes more sense than the Titmus map, go figure..........

While I don't think you've got it quite right I think your map is a lot closer to what I was thinking than anything else so far.

 

[sgoodman72]

I wouldnt waste your time watching the Monster Quest episode. Just more of the same old Bigfoot HOOIE. I just dont believe any thing Meldrum has to say. I know they say he's a Pro and all but I just cant take him seriously.

And we should believe you over Meldrum because.....? Your credentials...I'm patiently waiting. Frankly all I've seen from you is Meldrum slander and obnoxious videos showing the heel, along with a few various other snippets of stolen clips as filler. Not saying I disagree with your idea completely, but still. Sit back, take a deep breath, we all understand your heel theory.

Next, PLEASE keep this thread to PGF footage, as stated a moment ago there is a separate thread for other discussions.


PARCHER and others: I was tossing this idea around in my head in terms of the varying accounts from Gimlin and Patterson after the sighting. It may have been mentioned before, but it could just be the old exaggerating fisherman's tale. You get so caught up and excited in the moment, and first end up with, "I fell off the horse..." The next week you get, "Well we saw this thing, and I even fell of my horse and my foot was trapped and almost didn't get the shot, but did!!" Assuming for a second that the encounter was real, and he started getting questioned on legitimacylater, perhaps he went back to the true account of, "Oh well I just fell off, and Gimlin etc. etc."

You know where I now stand on this footage, but it could account for varying accounts, in both patterson and GIMLIN.

 

[mangler]

The Province, October 25, 1967

“The thing was across the creek beside the road, about 50 yards away. I ran down to the creek and got on a high sandbar to film it.” Roger Patterson

Check out the trail/old road on the W side of the Creek that goes to Ferris Camp. There are about 20 of these Camps (some mines some CCC Camps) in the Bluff Creek area at that time. I have yet to discover one sighting in the area prior 1958. Kind of makes me wonder.

Blackdog, any ideas?


m

PGF Area 1936 Map

 

[Geno]

Thanks again for that scan of the Argosy cover.

To me, Gimlin's gun looks strangely long to be a typical American lever-action .30-06. It could just be an illusion. But I'm not seeing anything like a forearm for quite a bit of its barrel length. It reminds me of a musket. Were there any lever action .30-06 muskets? I'm too lazy at the moment to look up Winchester, Remington, and Marlin for this.

It seems like Olson copied Gimlin's Indian look for his own production. That actor was called Tekka Blackhawk or Techa-Blackhawk (Dfoot used both names).

I'm pretty sure that gray horse was Gimlin's own. It's on the cover of Argosy, in the 'actors' shot, and may possibly be seen in the "Ape Canyon" shot.

Quite possibly it is a Henry, long barrel lever action. Gimlin had a 30'06 bolt action rifle at the time of the filming that had a much shorter barrel.

 

[LTC8K6]

Which part is junk?

Your entire post, which I quote below so there is no error regarding what I mean.

The board was on a covered porch. The amount of blood would have resisted total decay for two years while protected from the elements. Blood naturally coalesces, providing a protective layer. (The only proven method to destroy blood is bleach)

The first expert apparently was unable to create a primer, or unable to even find a reason for the non readability of the sample.

In the ensuing time, he (Dr. Meldrum) seems to have been able to have bigfoot's footprint officially classified, Anthroidipes Ameriborealis.

And as WP said. See the proper thread.

 

[William Parcher]

PARCHER and others: I was tossing this idea around in my head in terms of the varying accounts from Gimlin and Patterson after the sighting. It may have been mentioned before, but it could just be the old exaggerating fisherman's tale. You get so caught up and excited in the moment, and first end up with, "I fell off the horse..." The next week you get, "Well we saw this thing, and I even fell of my horse and my foot was trapped and almost didn't get the shot, but did!!" Assuming for a second that the encounter was real, and he started getting questioned on legitimacylater, perhaps he went back to the true account of, "Oh well I just fell off, and Gimlin etc. etc."

You know where I now stand on this footage, but it could account for varying accounts, in both patterson and GIMLIN.

Yes, the 'fisherman's tale' that has exaggeration and false recollection right from the start and only gets worse over time. But there were disagreements and strangeness with P&G that does not sound like it comes from a true encounter.

For example - the bent stirrup. Roger immediately claimed to having his horse rear up and actually fall on his leg (foot in stirrup) when it saw Patty. He would even tell reporters that it hurt his leg so much that it affected his run across the sandbar. Only a few hours after the encounter he would show up at Al Hodgson's store and present a bent stirrup as supporting evidence of the encounter and the crashing horse. But how could he do this and still have Gimlin later saying the horse didn't fall on him? Roger had to actually remove that stirrup from his saddle before showing it to Hodgson. Gimlin would have seen him do this or have somehow known that he removed it....

BG: Whatcha doin there Roger?
RP: I'm takin my bent stirrup off so I can show it to Al.
BG: Why is it bent?
RP: Because my horse crushed it when we saw that Bigfoot. You remember - it was only a few hours ago.
BG: Your horse never fell on you, it only reared up.
RP: Like hell it didn't. Why do you think this stirrup is bent? And you know what else? Ima gonna hafta fix this stirrup or get a new one.

But no. Gimlin went on to tell lots of folks that the horse never did fall on Roger's leg. Did Roger bring along a bent stirrup to show Al Hodgson as part of the hoax?

You want to try to "assume that the encounter was real". OK, then why would Gimlin maintain that the horse didn't bend the stirrup even after Roger took the damn bent stirrup off of the damn saddle and showed it right there to Hodgson? Sounds to me like two guys involved in a big hoax, with one of them wanting to showboat the whole affair and the other wanting to keep it more reasonable.

 

[William Parcher]

Quite possibly it is a Henry, long barrel lever action. Gimlin had a 30'06 bolt action rifle at the time of the filming that had a much shorter barrel.

A real Henry rifle, eh? Sweet. I bet Gimlin wishes he still had that one. Pretty much useless in 1967 unless you had blackpowder loads. Bob Heironimus probably wishes he still had his old Corvette.

But what about these rifles that P&G carried as self-defense against an attacking Bigfoot? Roger had a .303 British, and Bob had a .30-06. They tell the story of carrying these in scabbards as the rode around searching for Bigfoot.

What does it mean to be carrying these high-powered rifles around on horseback in the Six Rivers National Forest (Bluff Creek) in the early weeks of October 1967? What would have been thought by anyone seeing them riding around? What would forestry workers, road workers, or government employees think of this sight?

The Man: Hey guys. Whatcha doin out here in the woods?
RP: We're lookin for Bigfoot.
TM: What are the rifles for?
RP: We have them in case Bigfoot attacks us.
TM: Are you sure you aren't hunting deer?
RP: Nope, we are Bigfoot hunters.
TM: Do you have a hunting license?
RP: Nope we don't need one for Bigfoot.
TM: OK. I just hope you guys aren't poachers... cause I don't think yer gonna be seeing any Bigfoots in these parts.
RP: Well we're lookin for Bigfoot cause other guys seen Bigfoot around here; but these rifles is only to be used in case we git jumped by The Boss of the Woods.
TM: OK, have a nice day and good luck!

So, what were the laws about carrying rifles and hunting around those parts in October 1967?

 

[manofthesea]

MOTS,

I just wasted 9:33 minutes of my life thanx to you. Go to youtube and look for Monsterquest Sasquatch Attack part 1 of 5 posted by RetardRyan. (I am new so can't post links.)

At 8:33 you will see the screwboard (not "nailboard") clearly leaning against the cabin wall fully exposed to the elements. The cabin owner demonstrated how he placed it on the porch every time he left the cabin.

So the screwboard was exposed some of the time directly to the elements. The porch would also have exposed the screwboard to the elements in a blowing rain or snow.

Hehe, no I was kinda busy when the show was on. I saw the part where the researcher discovered the new primer. And then he was able to sequence the DNA. I'll trust his word thanx.