Bigfoot - The Patterson-Gimlin Film

[Spektator]

(snip)

Now for the PG CULT NEWS: My Skeptical INFO re: the PG film thread has been totally hijacked and turned into something about a suit I never promised anyone. And I am not allowed to even respond or answer since that has been disabled. All I can do is log on and watch other people write what they think I said - not what I said at all.(snip)

Historian, who used to post on this board, once said that the Second Amendment to the Constitution [sic] gives one the right to defend oneself against such attacks. I would not recommend accepting this legal advice, however.

 

[kitakaze]

I'm enjoying watching the panic unfold at the BFF that the return of the Dfoot is causing.

Goes like this:

Dfoot: Hey, check out this completely ludicrous thing Patterson said/did.

BFF mod/admin: Where's the goddamn suit in motion!? I swear to god, I never... HOAXER!!! How dare you... Beyond the pale. *foaming*

I'm sorry, D, but I'm enjoying watching the dogpile ensue with sick pleasure.

 

[mangler]

Sweaty,

Gigantopithecus does not fit the description of bigfoot. In terms of evolution I would think that it's a huge leap to go from a knuckle dragger to totally bipedal and mimicking human locomotion in 100-300,000 years, and what about the weight difference. If I'm wrong, please, someone, explain this to me.

BTW, I got a message that said "You have reached the maximum number of files you can upload." What's up with that? Without uploads I'm nothing! HELP!


m

 

[William Parcher]

WILLIAM PARCHER --- Your question on how a Bigfooter might prove Patty is a Bigfoot and not Heironimus got me to thinking about just what a Bigfoot is supposed to be...

Thanks for your last posting. But I think you misunderstood my question. Here it is again. It might require reading every word to understand it.

How would a Bigfooter begin to go about proving to anyone that they actually believe that Patty is a real Bigfoot?

The question may be misunderstood if one doesn't already understand what I wrote above it in the same post. I'm not asking for their proof that Patty is a Bigfoot. I'm asking for their proof that they believe.

 

[Skeptical Greg]

Historian, who used to post on this board, once said that the Second Amendment to the Constitution [sic] gives one the right to defend oneself against such attacks. I would not recommend accepting this legal advice, however.

Sadly ( or rightly, as it were ) not on a privately owned internet forum ..

If that were true, we could invade fundy boards, and make suggestions about shoving Jesus into places he probably wouldn't fit anyway; without fear of being banned....

 

[manofthesea]

Crow

WILLIAM PARCHER --- Your question on how a Bigfooter might prove Patty is a Bigfoot and not Heironimus got me to thinking about just what a Bigfoot is supposed to be...

According to the people who actually had close contact with them (Indians long ago and Ostman) we can gather this:

1) They are people - not apes. They are merely covered in hair and over 6 feet tall.

2) Their language was something similar to that of the Douglas Band from Canada and could be learned and spoken by others enough to communicate with them.

3) When the 1958 Wallace hoax broke out reporters asked the local Yurok elders about this legend. They said (and this was printed in the early articles) that these hairy giant people used to live high in the mountains in hidden underground caves, but they moved north about 1850 from California on up to Canada when the white man began mining.

So.... though the only people in the world (including Ostman) that ever spent time with Sasquatches all agree they are not apes, but are primitive cave men with a language, John Green, Krantz and others decided on their own that these witnesses were all wrong.

Thus a tribe of hairy people that may well have gone extinct as so many have, has been turned into a giant monster ape wandering the forests that none of them seems to ever get close to finding.

As long as the brush cracks, there is a scrap on the ground, or something thinks a falling pine cone is a night attack, we'll have our Bigfoot just out of reach. Plus, we can always watch the PG film again for reassurance.

Now for the PG CULT NEWS: My thread (over at the Bigfoot Forum - not here) has been totally hijacked and turned into something

Very insightful. Like reading original Sanskrit.

As far as the last paragraph, I just hate it when that happens.

 

[manofthesea]

So far the only mention of bigfoot, sasquatch, or apes that I have found in conjunction with Ticonderoga dates from a century or more before the construction of the first fort, when an account of the explorations of Samuel de Champlain unflatteringly compares the Native Americans he meets to "tawny apes."

Perhaps Champlain (any relation to the monster?) actually met sasquatch. Imagine, the first humans that actually bathed as infrequently as themselves. Maybe they were trying to establish relations.

 

[bruto]

Perhaps Champlain (any relation to the monster?) actually met sasquatch. Imagine, the first humans that actually bathed as infrequently as themselves. Maybe they were trying to establish relations.

Lake Champlain was named after Samuel de Champlain, and of course the Champlain monster, "Champ," after the lake. Some people say that Champlain saw the monster, but apparently this is a misreading, and he only reported the legend.

I haven't heard of local legends of bigfoot at Ticonderoga, but there have apparently been some purported sightings in the area further south, around the town of Whitehall, about which I have made many jocular comments in the past. Basically, if I were a big hairy smelly humanoid beast, I would probably also head for Whitehall and hope to blend in. Whitehall is a down-at-heels little junction town, once a hub in which highway, railhead and canal converged, but now pretty depressed, with many of its main street buildings abandoned and roofless, though they are periodically painted up in fancy colors so as to look good from the canal. Even in its heyday it was a rough tough little town, reputed to be the kind of place where you could expect folks, as Bob Dylan says, to "smoke your eyeballs and punch your cigarette."

I don't think any of the bigfoot sightings in the area have achieved much credibility, but the town of Whitehall passed a resolution calling for the protection of bigfoot, in the hope of attaining some of the tourist appeal of Port Henry, up the lake, where the bulk of Champ sightings have been reported, and which has done its best to cash in on the phenomenon. Nobody, except perhaps for a few true believers, and delusional folks like historian, takes the Whitehall effort very seriously.

With that said, if there were such a creature as bigfoot, and if such a creature ranged beyond its tradional area of the PNW, the Adirondack Park would be the place for it. Although heavily settled in places, there are still huge tracts of undeveloped and undevelopable land out there, very wild indeed. This is still the kind of place where an airplane can crash and never be found.

 

[manofthesea]

Lake Champlain was named after Samuel de Champlain, and of course the Champlain monster, "Champ," after the lake. Some people say that Champlain saw the monster, but apparently this is a misreading, and he only reported the legend.

I haven't heard of local legends of bigfoot at Ticonderoga, but there have apparently been some purported sightings in the area

Thanks. I bet a great resource for local information concerning the general area would be certain 'religious' groups. My son bicycled cross country, mentioning that from Indiana on through Pennsylvania there were groups of people whose sole method of transportation was non motorized. He said they were all very cordial and helpful throughout. (as long as you were on bicycle)

 

[Correa Neto]

So I've handed you the PGF on a silver platter as a hoax. Right here on this forum and on the BBF forum is the person Dfoot who has uncovered the truth. Or am I to believe that the Dfoot scenerio is not accepted as gospel? He's produced photos of the mask, the suit, the personalities behind it, and he's followed the money trail. He nailed it across the board. Time to give it up shut it down put it to bed. The guy who wore the suit wore the suit on Labor Day Weekend 1967, according to Dfoot. But Dfoot can explain why that pesky hoax film just looks so gosh darn like it was shot in true Autumn.

There are no "godspell scenarios" here, unless you consider te way most of us read the godspels- with a critical mindset, comparing it with the avaliable evidence.

We agree with him in some points and disagree at others. If you read carefully this thread, you will notice our agreements and disagreements. Basically, there's a single thing we agree- PGF, based on the available evidence, is quite likely a hoax.

You probably already found the posts where some of us consider he overengineers his Patty, while others are state that are not sure if Bob Hieronimus is the man inside the gorilla bigfoot costume.

 

[Correa Neto]

Pic your Gigantopithecus!

Once again, none of them look like Patty, not even Bill Munn's reconstruction (shown upright, but actually a knuckle-walker).

Gigantopithecus provides little if any support to the "PGF shows a real bigfoot" claim. Actually, the only support it can offer to the whole "bigfeet are (or were) real" is that it proves apes of the size bigfeet are claime to be are plausible. But again, so what? Gorillas and humans do the same (even if at the lower size range).

 

[Dfoot]

Thanks for your last posting. But I think you misunderstood my question. Here it is again. It might require reading every word to understand it.



The question may be misunderstood if one doesn't already understand what I wrote above it in the same post. I'm not asking for their proof that Patty is a Bigfoot. I'm asking for their proof that they believe.

William--- I see... I missed the meaning of the "that they believe" part. I've never thought of that angle before. Let me think about it...

OKAY GOT IT! HERE ARE THE SEVEN TYPES OF BELIEVER:

1) The Biscardi-esque style belief - That would mean someone who in the tradition of Wallace and Marx really don't think Bigfoot is real, but love to manipulate people with hoaxes and become leaders in the field. If possible, money-making films or expeditions will ensue.

2) The Pattersonite belief - That's someone who, in Al DeAtley's words, would "Lie, cheat, steal or hoax to prove it to you". He thinks there is a Bigfoot and wants to be the hero to find it, but till then he's happy to do what it takes to earn fame and fortune by faking it.

3) The MelKrantz-ist - He thinks he's open-minded to the idea and can accept any scientific analysis that proves true either way. He then will go out of his way to bend the universe to prove he's right in his theories - even if his belief turns out to be a hoax with a confession to back it up. Why? Because he's too smart for the less intelligent hoaxers to fool.

4) The Patty is real club - That means our group has decided and we have painted ourselves into a corner. Anyone who points this out must be dealt with and eliminated. Patty (and thus Bigfoot) must be protected from non-believers. They've spent decades on this and cannot look past the faith.

5) The I saw a Bigfoot guy - He looked Bigfoot in the eye and lived. He knows what he knows.

6) The Bigfoot seems to be possible Passerby - Based on legends and previous finds of unknown animals and people, they feel 50/50 on the subject. Could be, could be.

7) Para-Bigfoot is supernaturalizer - He sees all sorts of things and makes Britney seem level headed.

Those are the basics. These are the folks you will meet on your journey into the maze that is Bigfoot. I'm number 6. Hello.

Now... it's UP TO YOU TO PROVE Bigfoot doesn't exist. (*Anyone who speaks that phrase to you has just PROVEN he's a real believer)

 

[Dfoot]

THE LATEST FROM MY HIJACKED BFF SKEPTICAL THREAD ---

I just read on the thread I started for people to leave their Skeptical Info on that I have been banned FOREVER AND EVER. This because I answered yet another threatening PM telling me I would be banned (after I'd already been banned) WTF?

Not only did they change what I actually have said over and over again despite my efforts to clear this up, they went as far as to re-write what I typed and then prevented me from being able to respond to the various mischaracterizations. Why the anger? Simple. I seem to be posting real world info regarding this scam. Cult leaders don't seem to like that stuff at all.

I'd been warned by fellow posters (away from the Bigfoot Forum of course) that they were trying to come up with some excuse. Apparently my complaining about someone completely changing my words is considered talking back.

My answering Paul's email by telling him that he needed to change his own behavior is apparently going against the religion. As Jim Jone's son said to his mother, "How do you tell God he's nuts?" Thus it is my duty to inform you that I am no longer allowed to display information on the BFF. *sniff*

I wonder what Roger Patterson or Ray Wallace would do under such conditions? I'll channel them now and find out.... 'scuse me... I think an idea is forming...

 

[Crowlogic]

THE LATEST FROM MY HIJACKED BFF SKEPTICAL THREAD ---

I just read on the thread I started for people to leave their Skeptical Info on that I have been banned FOREVER AND EVER. This because I answered yet another threatening PM telling me I would be banned (after I'd already been banned) WTF?

Not only did they change what I actually have said over and over again despite my efforts to clear this up, they went as far as to re-write what I typed and then prevented me from being able to respond to the various mischaracterizations. Why the anger? Simple. I seem to be posting real world info regarding this scam. Cult leaders don't seem to like that stuff at all.

I'd been warned by fellow posters (away from the Bigfoot Forum of course) that they were trying to come up with some excuse. Apparently my complaining about someone completely changing my words is considered talking back.

My answering Paul's email by telling him that he needed to change his own behavior is apparently going against the religion. As Jim Jone's son said to his mother, "How do you tell God he's nuts?" Thus it is my duty to inform you that I am no longer allowed to display information on the BFF. *sniff*

I wonder what Roger Patterson or Ray Wallace would do under such conditions? I'll channel them now and find out.... 'scuse me... I think an idea is forming...

For what its worth Ray Wallace would have carved up a few new peices of wood and stirred up a bunch of dust and worked up a sweat that would have gotten him about as far as a dollars worth of gas would have run one of his bull dozers.

Roger on the other hand would have poured himself a glass of lemmon aid kicked back on his favorite front porch chair and figured out a way to charm the pants off of everybody again.

 

[William Parcher]

William--- I see... I missed the meaning of the "that they believe" part. I've never thought of that angle before. Let me think about it...

OKAY GOT IT! HERE ARE THE SEVEN TYPES OF BELIEVER:

1) The Biscardi-esque style belief - That would mean someone who in the tradition of Wallace and Marx really don't think Bigfoot is real, but love to manipulate people with hoaxes and become leaders in the field. If possible, money-making films or expeditions will ensue.

2) The Pattersonite belief - That's someone who, in Al DeAtley's words, would "Lie, cheat, steal or hoax to prove it to you". He thinks there is a Bigfoot and wants to be the hero to find it, but till then he's happy to do what it takes to earn fame and fortune by faking it.

3) The MelKrantz-ist - He thinks he's open-minded to the idea and can accept any scientific analysis that proves true either way. He then will go out of his way to bend the universe to prove he's right in his theories - even if his belief turns out to be a hoax with a confession to back it up. Why? Because he's too smart for the less intelligent hoaxers to fool.

4) The Patty is real club - That means our group has decided and we have painted ourselves into a corner. Anyone who points this out must be dealt with and eliminated. Patty (and thus Bigfoot) must be protected from non-believers. They've spent decades on this and cannot look past the faith.

5) The I saw a Bigfoot guy - He looked Bigfoot in the eye and lived. He knows what he knows.

6) The Bigfoot seems to be possible Passerby - Based on legends and previous finds of unknown animals and people, they feel 50/50 on the subject. Could be, could be.

7) Para-Bigfoot is supernaturalizer - He sees all sorts of things and makes Britney seem level headed.

Those are the basics. These are the folks you will meet on your journey into the maze that is Bigfoot. I'm number 6. Hello.

Now... it's UP TO YOU TO PROVE Bigfoot doesn't exist. (*Anyone who speaks that phrase to you has just PROVEN he's a real believer)

Dfoot says: OKAY GOT IT! HERE ARE THE SEVEN TYPES OF BELIEVER

Cool. Now place those seven types of "believers" into these two categories for me...

1) Those who believe.

2) Those who pretend to believe.

All seven types must be placed into only those two categories. Go.

 

[William Parcher]

...I have been banned FOREVER AND EVER.

That's good evidence that Patty is a hoax, and that the BFF administration knows that it is a hoax. Consider it a victory for yourself.

Now you can play here without inane distraction. Do you think you are ready for Thunderdome?

 

[SweatyYeti]

Put your fingers on the keyboard right now and type out where it has been shown that Gigantopithecus has been conclusively shown to be bipedal or spare us from ever having to read that fallacious statement again. I'll give you a head start - Russel Ciochon

Here is an excerpt from Wikipedia, concerning the question of Gigantopithecus' locomotion....

Gigantopithecus's method of locomotion is uncertain, as no pelvic or leg bones have been found. The dominant view is that it walked on all fours like modern gorillas and chimpanzees; however, a minority opinion favor bipedal locomotion, most notably championed by the late Grover Krantz, but it should be noted that this assumption is based only on the very few jawbone remains found, all of which are U-shaped and widen towards the rear. This allows room for the windpipe to be within the jaw, allowing the skull to sit squarely upon a fully-erect spine like modern humans, rather than roughly behind it, like great apes.

While there is no proof that Giganto walked upright....there is evidence for it. The widening of their jawbones at the rear indicates a certain 'degree of probability' that they did walk upright.

It's a real shame...for the skeptics...that there is actually strong evidence that a 'very large upright-walking primate with BIG feet' (the basic description of Bigfoot ) did exist in the past.

It kinda makes their possible existence today seem not so implausible.

 

[SweatyYeti]

Dfoot wrote:

I have been banned FOREVER AND EVER.

Hey, don't let that stop you from finishing-up your suit, Dfoot!
It shouldn't take you too much longer to wrap-it-up, and show us something as realistic-looking as Patty! (In Motion)

 

[William Parcher]

It kinda makes their possible existence today seem not so implausible.

The existence today of Bigfoot is extremely implausible. It is so extreme that I am quite confident that they do not exist. Of course, that's just me. I say that because nobody has shown that they exist. Too much time has passed without any confirmation. I consider it quite ridiculous to entertain the idea that Bigfoot is out there. I think that lots of people pretend to believe because it's so much fun to do that. Anybody could prove me wrong by presenting a living or dead Bigfoot.

Sweaty, your arguments for the existence of Bigfoot are extremely silly.

 

[mangler]

Sweaty,

"While there is no proof that Giganto walked upright....there is evidence for it. The widening of their jawbones at the rear indicates a certain 'degree of probability' that they did walk upright." Sweaty

What degree of probability, 1%, 2%? Since there are very few facts involving Gigantopithecus that leads me to believe that there is much speculation, btw, it's impossible to know it's locomotion at present time. While there is evidence that something is making foot impression across N. America the degree of probability that it is this bigfoot thing is quite small.



m